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Old April 7th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #16
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

I learn more and more every time I do this kind of stuff. I don't have a way to calibrate my cameras before hand, but what I've found is that using a DSC Labs one shot chart allows me to match my Sony, Canon, Nikon, and GoPros in Adobe Speedgrade CC in post. I can get them looking nearly identical (close enough for my wedding video needs anyway).

I have been using the primary layer to neutralize white balance and put gray at around 40 on the RGB parade.

Then I do an individual secondary layer for each of the 6 color swatches (RGB,CMY) where I use the magenta/cyan slider or color temp slider to move the vectors towards the right boxes. I'll also adjust saturation as necessary.

I have no idea if that's the correct way or not, but it seems to be working for my cameras. lol

For some insane reason I cannot explain, I have not taken the time to do this same approach to the 4 skin swatches but I'm guessing if I did, they'd match up even better.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 08:26 AM   #17
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

I don't know about the ziplocks but I like that idea. I'd say sun and heat are the worst. Pigments do change chemically over time, and the energy that strikes them the faster they'll change.

Might be a good thing to ask Adam about at the DSC booth at NAB... after you come visit me at Sound Devices. :)
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Old April 7th, 2015, 08:30 AM   #18
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Root View Post
For some insane reason I cannot explain, I have not taken the time to do this same approach to the 4 skin swatches but I'm guessing if I did, they'd match up even better.
What's funny is that most colorists do this the opposite way. In fact, most of them will say they grade the footage first and then go back and make the chart match. (They don't trust charts because a lot of DPs don't know how to shoot them. That amazes me!)

As for the rest of your technique... if it works, keep doing it. Orange/blue and magenta/green are the most basic controls in color correction. You can do a lot with them.

In Resolve I'll use the hue vs hue curve to tweak errant colors as needed.
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Old April 7th, 2015, 10:42 AM   #19
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

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Originally Posted by Art Adams View Post
Might be a good thing to ask Adam about at the DSC booth at NAB... after you come visit me at Sound Devices. :)
Yes, looks like Monday is going to be a *very* full day! :-)
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Old January 1st, 2020, 09:21 AM   #20
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

My station recently upgraded to a $10,000 scopey thing that will do 2x vectorscope gain...I put in an order for a DSC Handy Camette chart, and will blast it with a pair of Lowel Omni halogen lights in the studio, until I get my stations X320 and my Z90 to look as close to perfect as possible.

For calibrating to gammas other than REC709, should I calibrate to REC709 with REC709 color, then switch the gamma after for the field...as long as the color matric\x stays REC709 the gamma shouldn't matter too much?

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Old January 2nd, 2020, 12:43 PM   #21
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Looking forward to the results on this in particular the Z90 which I use.
Lately I've switched to Cine 2 with Cinema Color with good results.
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Old January 2nd, 2020, 02:08 PM   #22
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Just found out the Phabrix scope when set to 2x vectorscope gain removes the target pattern from the scope display....like seriously...TFW. I emailed the company, they are working to provide an update that provides 2x gain with targets :-|

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Old January 8th, 2020, 06:35 PM   #23
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

So I purchased the DSC Labs publication (87 page book) called Imaging Technology: Advanced Guide blah blah blah. Comes with a few charts, including Camalign chart. I was hoping that this $130 book would have something, anything, related to instructing on calibrating a camera to a DSC chart. It doesn't...it reproduces the leaflet you get with the chart, and for $130 I got the instructions, and I quote..."Adjust matrix controls to position all signals in their respective boxes". Really...that is all your going to give me for $130????????

The only other info I managed to get from the book is to adjust RED first, followed by YELLOW, and for luminance (color depth on cheap Sony cameras), pay more attention to the 40IRE colors than the 80IRE colors...the 40's make up more of the important colorimetry, and the 80's are harder to get right anyway.

Now time to draw targets on a screen protector to lay over my vectorscope 2X targetless scope :-P

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Old January 8th, 2020, 11:59 PM   #24
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

About to purchase a used Leader LV5700A waveform/vectorscope with adjustable gain. Can anyone recomend an alternative low priced used scope? Several Leader 5700A's for around $500USD online at the moment...not bad for HD-SDI.

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Old January 9th, 2020, 05:08 PM   #25
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

5700A multi monitor ordered.

So, starting to get my to do list in order.

1: Reset camera to 0.45 gamma rec709 all the extras truned off, knee turned off.

2: Perform white balance to DSC Camwhite chart.

3: Set camera preset white balance to kelvin indicated by auto white selection in step 2.

3: Adjust white preset RGB off-sets to bring RBG parade on waveform even.

4: Using flare menu, adjust RGB values to black balance the camera following the Tektronixs instructional video below.

5: Remaining in preset white, perform white shading adjustments to white balance the camera following Abelcine video below.

OK, so acording to my onnline learnings, becaue onlinez teaches learnings bestest, these are the steps necessary to properly setup the camera that mst be performed prior to adjusting the color matrix or any other adjustments. Any thoughts on this?


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Old January 11th, 2020, 11:18 PM   #26
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Denny View Post
Looking forward to the results on this in particular the Z90 which I use.
Lately I've switched to Cine 2 with Cinema Color with good results.
For the Z90 you may wish to try the following settings. Z90's are a bit trickier to adjust as they don't have a standard 360 degree SMPTE Matrix or Multi Matrix. Their whole color adjustment setup is basically derived from the A7 range which is totally alien to the Paint settings seen in most broadcast cameras.

We have been using Z90's in conjunction with FS7s and PDW XDCams with success after coming up with the following settings after much time on the scopes and charts for alignment purposes. Even used these settings live to air for sports broadcasts using Z90's as ringside and corner cameras in boxing bouts.

Using the following. We overwrite PP1.

Gamma ITU709

Black Gamma MIDDLE and 0
Except in extreme harsh sunny conditions outdoors, beach, snow and situations bathed in full sun with deep shadows where we often go anywhere up to HIGH and +7

Knee MANUAL, POINT 87.5, SLOPE -2
Expose for maximum highlights for between 90 and no more than 95 and you should not clip and roll highlights on this little sensor quite nicely.

Color Mode ITU709 MATRIX

Saturation -7
This setting is related to what we do in the Color Depth menu

Color phase -3 to -7
Often -6 to help with skin tones

Color Depth
R +1
G +3
B +5
C +3
M +2
Y +3

Generally all client and network observations so far have been very happy with these settings and of course has made inter-cutting between cameras in post about 95% easier and faster because of smaller color differences and when they are there so much easier to correct.

Chris Young
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Old January 12th, 2020, 12:42 AM   #27
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Thanks Chris for the detailed pic profile on the Z90.
I'm now two weeks into using cine2 with cinema color in HD with no tweaks in camera and I'm having excellent results, just shot 32 vids for a client and have to say, for me this has been an excellent combo along with a basic color grade in FXPC, couldn't be happier.

Thanks mate

I forgot to mention as you have, don't blow the highlights out and you'll be fine and have great results.
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Old January 12th, 2020, 01:28 AM   #28
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

I will give those Z90 settings a try this week. I tend to stay away from HIGH +7 because workign at night, at gains of 27db being pretty normal, it causes a lot of grey out of shadows and extreme visable noise, which turns ugly when it hits a few 8 bit edits.

Last time I scoped my Z90, I was focused on slightly adjusting R, because the REC709 color mode tends to make red fire trucks and lights a bit orangish, and then B as secondary, because it is pushing up towards magenta and extremely oversaturated compared to the other colors. I gave up on trying to do anything with the G control...Sony seems to think G should be half way between Y and G and half saturation on all their cameras. As for the color depth, I gave up after whiting out colors into static while showing them at 40 or 80 on the waveform...obviously I need more training.

Been using Cine 4 from Doug Jensen minus the black gamma and black drop...it looks really sweet and handles highlights, but even with the knee OFF, faces tend to start looking weird and compressed at like 60IRE...makes it difficult at times to expose a dark backgroud in the night shooting I do.

Do you have any tips or alterations to how I am going to begin my scoping process? there really is no guide online that I have found that runs someone through the process...was hoping this thread could serve that purpose, seeing as you can buy a brand new baby Camalign chart for $130USD...I hope my Leader LV5700A scope is up to the task for $400.

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post
For the Z90 you may wish to try the following settings. Z90's are a bit trickier to adjust as they don't have a standard 360 degree SMPTE Matrix or Multi Matrix. Their whole color adjustment setup is basically derived from the A7 range which is totally alien to the Paint settings seen in most broadcast cameras.

We have been using Z90's in conjunction with FS7s and PDW XDCams with success after coming up with the following settings after much time on the scopes and charts for alignment purposes. Even used these settings live to air for sports broadcasts using Z90's as ringside and corner cameras in boxing bouts.

Using the following. We overwrite PP1.

Gamma ITU709

Black Gamma MIDDLE and 0
Except in extreme harsh sunny conditions outdoors, beach, snow and situations bathed in full sun with deep shadows where we often go anywhere up to HIGH and +7

Knee MANUAL, POINT 87.5, SLOPE -2
Expose for maximum highlights for between 90 and no more than 95 and you should not clip and roll highlights on this little sensor quite nicely.

Color Mode ITU709 MATRIX

Saturation -7
This setting is related to what we do in the Color Depth menu

Color phase -3 to -7
Often -6 to help with skin tones

Color Depth
R +1
G +3
B +5
C +3
M +2
Y +3

Generally all client and network observations so far have been very happy with these settings and of course has made inter-cutting between cameras in post about 95% easier and faster because of smaller color differences and when they are there so much easier to correct.

Chris Young
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Old January 12th, 2020, 10:03 PM   #29
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Denny View Post
Thanks Chris for the detailed pic profile on the Z90.
I'm now two weeks into using cine2 with cinema color in HD with no tweaks in camera and I'm having excellent results, just shot 32 vids for a client and have to say, for me this has been an excellent combo along with a basic color grade in FXPC, couldn't be happier.

Thanks mate

I forgot to mention as you have, don't blow the highlights out and you'll be fine and have great results.
Another one that works pretty well is Cine 4 with Pro Color if you want something simple to setup when camera matching isn't an issue. Also works pretty well on the A7III.

Chris Young
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Old January 12th, 2020, 10:18 PM   #30
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Re: Help calibrating camera with DSC chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg View Post
I will give those Z90 settings a try this week. I tend to stay away from HIGH +7 because workign at night, at gains of 27db being pretty normal, it causes a lot of grey out of shadows and extreme visable noise, which turns ugly when it hits a few 8 bit edits.Paul
Paul that's why I specified that setting or a variation on it for extremely bright high contrast sun conditions only. Generally those would be at '0' dB I think you would agree. Anything else Middle and 0 or maybe even lower. Operator's choice.

Chris Young
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