Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Further thoughts: After I rolled back from the Win10 upgrade to Win7, I went on to recover a full disc backup that I'd made of the Win7 system before I installed the 'optional' (KB3035583) Windows Update that harbours that 'Win10 Upgrade' widget. Makes me wonder if MS have planted something in Outlook that scans for the Win10 Upgrade widget and if it's not there invokes this Win10 upgrade nag pop-up on signing out.

I'm not particularly inclined to test that by installing KB3035583 again, but if that is the case then that is definitely invasion of privacy.

Hi Dave ! A Merry Christmas to you also ;>)

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

If you had auto update turned on then Windows downloaded lots of stuff to check if your PC could be updated. If you search there is lots on the internet on how to remove those updates that cause the window you keep getting. I have two PC's on WIN 10 , my wife's and my laptop both work great. Laptop is running EDIUS 8.1 WG . My two editing systems will stay WIN7 as one has EDIUS 6.08 and there will not be a WIN 10 driver for the dongle and the other PC has lots of older software on it too. I do not let WIndows do an auto update on any of them. Shutup10 will effectively do the same for WIN 10.

Both my wife's PC and my laptop were an update not a clean install and was painless though I did backup everything before I started and removed all virus checking etc before letting the update proceed.

I like WIN 10 it seems faster at most things.

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I don't have auto update turned on in Win7. I'm set for "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them". And I never install Optional updates unless needed to fix a particular issue, which is very rare. So, are you suggesting that MS might have put something in a 'Critical' update? Seems strange then that I only started getting this Outlook-related pop-up since yesterday. And the only Update installed in the past few days (since "Patch Tuesday" in fact) was a definition update for MSSE.

Irrespective of the relative merits of Win10 and Win7 I find this upgrade promotion strategy creepy and a bit disconcerting. Maybe I'm too naive......hopefully not too paranoid

....or maybe not:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchow...d-talko-deals/

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Can't answer that as the WIN10's I have work fine and my WIN7's do not show what yours show.

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Click on "Proceed to Site" if the link doesn't open to the article directly: "Microsoft Monday: Windows 10 Upgrade Worsens."

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

All I can say is that this is not happening to any of my 3 Win 7 PC's. No prompts to upgrade etc. Nothing. So not sure where the information in the Forbes article comes from but it is not happening to my PC's.

Ron Evans

edit see if this helps. http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/h...ng-your-system

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I've been reading around and the general consensus seems that if you are on win 8 then win 10 will only be a better experience but if you are on win 7, there is at this moment no reason to upgrade if all works fine. Eventually we all will have to switch because at some point your hard- or software will require OS update.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I think WIN7/8 will be supported to 2020 after that you may be on your own or update to WIN10. Certainly with my touch based laptop which had WIN 8.1, WIN 10 is better and faster. Just do not want to play around with the editing PC's or my email PC as they have to many pieces of software that may not work. I had removed KB3035583 as soon as I learned about it. With new functionality being available on software updates that may only work with WIN10 updating may be essential at some point in time.

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I will leave win 7 pro on my editing pc, it has proven to be a very reliable OS and it works with all my soft- and hardware so there is no reason in changing, I also disabled win 7 updates longer time ago because this pc only connects to the internet for software updates. I will install win 10 on another pc though that has permanent internet access.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Wow. Microsoft is becoming a real jerk. It will eventually become worthwhile to invest in separate networking hardware to block access from / to their upgrade push site.

Andrew

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

From what I understand it's a matter of not installing KB3035583?

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I'm now reinstalling Windows 10 for the second time - a perfectly stable Windows 7 machine now unable to perform without BSOD - and this was a complete clean install. Brand new C: drive, brand new Windows 10 on USB stick. I don't mind the look and the feel of 10, but my old MAYA internal PCI card refuses to work despite the drivers saying the are 10 compatible, and all in all, it's a mess. At the moment it's reinstalling, but what is the settings it will add an extra windows version rather than repair or repair the old on - the options are very unclear. I have two weeks to fix it and make it stable. Drivers that appear in device manager as working, but don't and others that appear to install and don't appear. VSTi's that crash. I really wish I'd not started. A drive died - and that was the only reason for updating. I'd left the Windows 7 discs at home, so Amazon was the quickest option, but perhaps, a silly one!

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

How old is the pc you are installing it on? Your harddrive might be new but maybe your motherboard is not win 10 compatible? I always make a image from my OS and programs right after the first install and when I"m sure it's stable so whenever I test something and if it goes completely wrong I can have a stable OS running within 20 or so minutes.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

They are just copying Apple and Android.

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Isn't Win10 supposed to perform a full compatibility scan before it installs? At least that's what the Win10 upgrade widget assured me before I proceeded with the upgrade:

Actually, I never saw any "full" compatibility report or message of any kind. It just proceeded to the upgrade installation, which I assumed to mean that there were no incompatibilities.
Feel sorry for you Paul; makes my upgrade experience seem like a minor inconvenience. Just trying to understand:

So, the first Win10 installation was not via the upgrade widget then? Thought you had to go through the upgrade process first in order to be able to perform a clean (re)install?

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

This pop-up message only and always appears upon signing out from Outlook, and irrespective of whether I use IE or Firefox. It does not appear when I access Outlook via Firefox on a Linux desktop (same PC, different drive) and neither does it appear on my wife's PC, which is still running Vista. So, it's not some generic message/ad.

This is the first Win10 upgrade pop-up ad/nag I have encountered on this PC. I only installed the KB3035583 update widget just before performing the upgrade, and now, after rolling back to Win7 and then restoring a backup made before installing KB3035583, my PC is back to how it was....or so I think. The KB3035583 is still sitting there in the list of 'Optional' windows updates that have not been installed.

So what is triggering this pop-up message on signing out from Outlook then? Does Outlook simply detect that I am not browsing with Microsoft Edge, or does it prompt a "deeper" scan of my PC, possibly to detect whether the KB3035583 update is installed or not i.e. if they can't nag me via the KB3035583 upgrade widget, they can do so through Outlook. Like I said, what seemed odd was that just before this pop-up first appeared, I had difficulty signing in to Outlook - would hang for a long period before slowly opening. Now I have no problem signing in - so maybe the stalling was due to MS scanning my PC and logging it's findings.

Sorry to keep harping on about this silly and seemingly innocuous 'pop-up', but it is important. The fact that MS have found another way (that is both both covert and intrusive) to induce me to upgrade to Win10, leaves me wondering what other coercions and marketing tricks will be brought to bare on (perceived) stubborn Win7 "last standers" in the coming months to accept an "offer that (ultimately) you can't refuse". And really, the only reason I did "decline" at this point was because of LAN access issues that are important to the way I work. Had everything been hunky-dory I'd probably now be saying "Hey, come on, dive-in, the water's lovely".

As to why you are not seeing this message Ron on your Win7 PC's - maybe you are just not using Outlook ? Or maybe I've been... gasp!....singled out.

Edit: Regarding the source of the information in the Forbes article. The article states that it came from Forbes contributor Gordon Kelly and provides a link to another article (from Dec 16th) by him:

Forbes Welcome

Again, if the link opens to the Forbes welcome page, click on the top-right (countdown) 'Proceed to Site' button to open the article.

Quite a scathing introduction, quote:

"Choice. After all the software improvements, promotional offers and good intentions, ‘choice’ is the big factor Microsoft (MSFT -0.24%) forgot to consider with Windows 10. Falling adoption rates have seen the company’s initial smugness evolve into incredulity and increasingly dirty tactics and now Microsoft appears to have forgotten about respecting choice entirely because life for Windows 7 and Windows 8 users is about to get a lot worse…"

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I don't get these update messages on my win 7 pc but that's because I haven't applied a windows update in months and my pc is configured not to look for updates by itself, how does this message appear when you log out of outlook?

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

As per the screen shot I attached in Post #39 above:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...ml#post1905766

There's the pop-up and also an add behind it in the MSN window. Both disappear with a click of the X on the pop-up. But that's not the point.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

No I do not use Outlook. I use Thunderbird as my mail program and source is Rogers Yahoo pop3 server. Browser is Firefox.

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Well that would likely explain why you're not seeing the pop-up nag.

Edit: Just saw this:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...783946a?auth=1

This is the same pop-up I am referring to. How is this "perfectly appropriate given that many people have Hotmail / Live / Outlook logons". No it's not.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

It is I guess because outlook can be used for free so MS can push advertisement right in your face if they want to, only the way they try to achieve this is questionable since it seems to require installing something on your pc without your knowlegde. I for instance am not getting this pop up when I log out of outlook on win 7 pro and the reason why could be that I haven't installed a update in months.
MS approach will have a opposite effect of what they trying to achieve, they are just being too aggressive but who can blame them, they probably need this in order to survive. It reminds me of the Borg in Star Trek; "Resistance Is Futile" and we all will be assimilated, whether we want it or not :D

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Exactly that......except maybe for the "who can blame them bit" ;>)

Reminds me of the Martha Reeves song "Nowhere to run Baby, nowhere to hide....da,da,da"

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

When Apple cut off it's industry standard editing program final cut pro they didn't ask their users if they where ok with that, they just do it because they found other ways to make even more money, MS doesn't care about the user either, they also have to make money and because windows users are not locked into a closed system they tend hold on longer to what works but that doesn't do MS any good so they have to be more aggressive to try to lock people into having no choice, Like apple did from the start, only Apple doesn't need to be so sneaky to try to convince their users they need to move on, they never have given them much choice so people are used to that and they are also very good in convincing their users that their next thing is always better :)

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Spot on again Noa.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Maybe Microsoft saw how Adobe pressured their users over to the subscription model, and see it as the future when users aren't in as much pain and needing to upgrade any more.

Andrew

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Yes, I think that's where it's heading too......all up in the "cloud".

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

There is a saying: If it is free then you are the product.

Andrew

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

How true....and, arguably, even if you are paying it's still no better. The new business paradigm.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Interesting article, and more particularly the embedded radio interview with Microsoft Marketing Chief Chris Capossela:

Microsoft explains why it's pushing Windows 10 so aggressively (spoiler: it's to keep you safe)

Interpret his comments how you will.

The part that gets me is the blatant scaremongering he gets across by first stating that Windows 7 users when buying new hardware are going to be finding that their (emphasized "ten-year old ") OS is no longer compatible, which he then follows up with an assurance that Microsoft is working closely with it's hardware partners to ensure full compatibility with Windows 10. Shameful tactics if you ask me.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I've upgraded to win 10 on three computers and then had to go an turn off all the new 'features' than did a sweep with O&O ShutUp10 which essentially can lock down you PC from Microsoft other than unplugging from the internet.
Theres a slight speed increase over win 7/8

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

[QUOTE=Bryan Worsley;1906229

The part that gets me is the blatant scaremongering he gets across by first stating that Windows 7 users when buying new hardware are going to be finding that their (emphasized "ten-year old ") OS is no longer compatible, which he then follows up with an assurance that Microsoft is working closely with it's hardware partners to ensure full compatibility with Windows 10. Shameful tactics if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

Well that was true for WIN7 too. I have a Dell 24" monitor with no supported drivers beyond WIN Vista, a HP Laser printer with no WIN7 drivers etc etc. And Ediius 6.08 will not work beyond WIN7 because of dongle drivers. By the way I can't get a heated steering wheel in my car fitted either. It is always the case that if you want the new stuff it usually means new hardware and software that work together. I have no problem with the intent of Microsoft but the attitude is not always acceptable but in a way no different to Apple or Google. You need new hardware and software to run the latest features on iOS or Android.

I intend to stay on WIN7 for both my editing PC's because they have hardware and software that will never get WIN10 drivers. So until I stop using them they will stay. However I will make myself a new PC in March and it will be WIN10. The 2 PC's I have running WIN10 seem to be faster than when they were on WIN7 and WIN8.1. I have used Shutup10 to turn almost everything off !! Don't use Outlook, Edge or Bing !!

Ron Evans

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Well, if "Use Windows 7 at your peril" (which he actually says) is not scaremongering, I don't know what it is.

And it is a big deal, as reading between the lines, there is clear inference that Windows 10 will be the last 'licensed volume' and an effective springboard to their cloud-based model i.e. the "better and safer place"...for Microsoft.

Anyhow, for anyone not inclined to listen to the whole thing, the interview with Caposella kicks-off at about 8 minutes in. The specific topics covered that are relevant to this discussion are:

Cloud-based - 'freemium' vs 'premium' model (16-24 mins)

Windows 7 vs Windows 10 (27-32mins)

Privacy (32-35 mins)

Like I said, make of it what you will.

I've taken to all browsing, and Skyping, in Linux.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Forbes Welcome

Again, interpret how you will.

Edit: As with the other Forbes articles - if the link opens to the Forbes welcome page, click on the top-right (countdown) 'Proceed to Site' button to open the article.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I prepared a 3 year old pc (my previous editing machine) with win10 for my wife and so far so good, during installation I didn't choose the express but advanced install where I allready shut off all "phone home" parts and then used shutup10 to close any other remaning doors. My wife's very pleased with win10, it runs smooth and all her older programs run without an issue. People just have to realize that once you go on the internet nothing is private anymore.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Windows 10 and privacy: Whom should you trust? | InfoWorld

Would be interesting to know ShutUp10 does with that.

I just find it ridiculous state of affairs that one should have to resort to these measures.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

I might not shut down every attempt but it does seem to close down quite a lot, in any case, I don't understand why people get so upset about this, it's wishful thinking that you can protect your privacy once you go online, if you want to be 100% in control then disconnect your pc from the internet.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

It doesn't upset me at all. As both articles conclude I think it's more the lack of transparency that concerns a lot of people:

"But the time for transparency is running out. By 2018 Microsoft aims to have one billion devices running Windows 10 and with that comes truly global reach and insight. The world deserves to know exactly what it is signing up for…"

"If Microsoft wants to earn our trust, we need a lot more transparency and a lot less hand-waving".

Should these things not be brought to light?

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

The minute you are connected (or for that matter out and about in virtually any outpost of civilization), you are "exposed" to some degree...

Security is actually mostly an illusion, as the challenge to crack an uncrackable lock will always be "game on" to both nefarious sorts, and those who just like to take things apart and see how they work!

Accept the technology for what it will do for you, and be aware of the risks. Generally though, most people open their own "security holes" by their own actions. Things like responding to the nice Nigerian prince, sharing or using low grade passwords, downloading every piece of crapware that is offered.... etc., etc....

Aside from my old desktop that has some sort of problem that's keeping it from updating (identified, but haven't yet found a fix...), I've been switching to 10 across the board, and so far no problems aside from a few oddities (trackpad software for gestures is a bit finicky, and I've got a program or two where the scroll bars appear 100% black....). Overall, it's a faster OS, and somehow fairly easy to get used to (unlike 8/8.1 with the PlaySkool interface...).

Of course YMMV, and one always has to be aware of older programs that aren't being updated that may have "special" problems, but I'll happily take a "free" upgraded OS that makes my computers run faster and mostly better....

Now about that "Edge" browser....totally a piece of garbage, at least at this stage of development, use Chrome or IE! Some things aren't "new and improved", and Edge is one of them!

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Which is precisely why I brought attention to that article.

Re: Windows 10 free?
 

Well I did something remarkably stupid...

I have a 6 year old laptop, which I rarely use anymore, but I thought let me upgrade it to Win 10 to test it out. Also, the laptop does have my Adobe CS4 software on there, which I've read mixed things about whether they work on 10 or not. It would be a good way to test it out. So I began the upgrade, took hours. First to download, then to install. Finally it was getting late, midnight on Saturday. My place is older so the electrical isn't all that great, and seeing those hoverboard fires this past holidays I had a slight fear of leaving it plugged in overnight. Plus, as I didn't expect it to take so long it was laying awkwardly & on my couch.

So, typically when I'd unplug the laptop it would switch over to battery mode. Maybe that's a Windows setting that doesn't work in boot mode, I dunno. So it was at about 71% installed, moving about 1 % per minute, but I thought I would unplug it from the outlet & either allow the battery to finish out, or move it into my kitchen where the outlets are a little stronger (washer/dryer) and less fabric/burnable material like carpeting, sofa etc.

Only, when I unplugged it, zoinks! It was off?! At first, I thought it was toast, and the electronics were fried. But I plugged it back in & it powered on, but its now stuck in limbo-land of not having Win 7 or Win 10, and I just get an endless loop of unable to start Win 7 & 'It looks like your already installing Win 10' (with no way to get back to finishing it). I downloaded a Win 7 & 10 boot disk, but neither worked & thats a bit beyond my scope on computer knowledge, but I was glad to have tried some of the things I was trying. Also spent about an hour with MS tech support, she was nice, but just reading from a script of "Start up your computer, do you have the Start menu?" Uhmmmm, no. I was hoping for some eureka! moment solution, something like pressing f10 to start in Safe mode or something, but it never came. It ended with I'm sorta screwed & blow it out & reinstall 7 again then upgrade to 10.

So, in the end I took it to a local Microsoft store. It's a waste, as like I said I hardly ever use it, but at this point after being so close & making such a stupid mistake I just want it completed & to check it out. Sucks it's so complicated now, for something so easy & all I needed to do was nothing. Oh well, I'm sure worse things could've happened to me that day, or maybe a fire could've started. So it's just a petty little nuisance. Plus, as I said it would've sucked if it was my main PC and this happened, so it was a learning experience for if I do want to go thru with the upgrade. TBH, probably not. They had sample PCs & laptops there while I was waiting, seemed good for personal fun use, but I don't think it's for me business wise. I like things more structured, like XP, not all floaty.