Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?

Brad Kraus · January 10th, 2019, 02:49 PM

Ryan, may I suggest an option you may not have considered? If getting this particular shot (and getting it right) is as important to you as it sounds like, you may want to consider contacting a few AV rentals place in Saskatoon and look into renting a higher end digital cinematic camera and lens for a day (or half day if you plan it right) for just this one shot then color match, etc in post.

It shouldn't be too expensive but then you have exactly the shot you want and how you want it.... Just food for thought.

Whatever you do decide to do, all the best! If you can, please share your finished results here. I'd love to see it!

Ryan Elder · January 10th, 2019, 03:03 PM

Okay thanks. It's just that I am worried about the camera footage not matching if I use a different camera compared to the rest of the footage.

Also whenever I rent, I have to book weeks in advance, and if one person in the cast and crew has to reschedule anything, I cannot get the rental then. In the past, renting has been very tough cause of this. But I can certainly try.

Or if tracking it is going to look even better, than I can do that, I am just not sure how to track it fast enough.

Brian Drysdale · January 10th, 2019, 05:18 PM

You can apply a speed ramp in post during the edit, many NLEs allow you to do these.

Even if the track is slower than the the crash zoom, it will still carry more energy than the zoom, especially in an action sequence.

For a fast move you're better running forward than a going backwards, Steadicam probably has the advantage for this, but you could try the same with a gimbal mount. Having the gimbal facing back as the operator runs forward. Practice should get a good technique..

Not as fast as a crash zoom, but more power.

Ryan Elder · January 10th, 2019, 06:01 PM

Oh yeah for sure I would definitely run forwards compared to backwards.

However, if I speed it up in post, how do I make it look non-sped up? Like when I take frames out to speed up the footage, you can tell there is missing frames, and it looks unintentionally cheesy. Plus the actors in the shot are moving faster, where as I just want to speed up the camera movement and not have the actors look sped up.

Is this possible?

Pete Cofrancesco · January 10th, 2019, 07:02 PM

Basic rule is you shoot at a higher frame rate for slow motion and at a lower rate for fast motion.
https://www.diyphotography.net/learn...st-10-minutes/

Most cameras only offer 24, 30 and maybe 60 but I've found you can do both even if filmed at a normal rate. Speeding up in the editor more forgiving than slow motion. Speed changes are always ramped. Again whether you'll be able to do it will depend on your editing software both Premiere and FCPX will. So you might go from normal speed and ramp up to twice the speed.

Ryan Elder · January 10th, 2019, 07:15 PM

Okay thanks but what do you mean by 'ramp' in this context? Is ramp an actual Premiere Pro term for example?

I have Premiere Pro. What feature in Premiere Pro are you referring to?

Pete Cofrancesco · January 10th, 2019, 07:22 PM

ramping is acceleration or deceleration of video speed.

Josh Bass · January 10th, 2019, 08:05 PM

You would find a clip speed control in your NLE, and keyframe that effect on that particular clip to go from normal speed to 200% or 2x or whatever your software calls it, then back to normal at the right time. You could try to get a friend or whoever to help you test having the actors do that shot at half speed so when it is sped up it looks normal. That’s the only way to know if itll work for you. Tests.

Ryan Elder · January 10th, 2019, 09:23 PM

Okay thanks, I am just worried it will look like the actors are moving fake, when they try to fake moving slow.

I can't really test it cause I don't have the gimbal yet and will not have it till later on before production. That's why I was hoping to know if it would work sooner than that. But I can test it later if need be.

Every time I try get an actor to fake something physical like that, it always comes off looking fake, which is why I prefer the real deal if I can.

Another thing is, when I move a camera really fast, there is a serious rolling shutter jello effect going on. Especially when you move a camera as fast as you can. That's another reason why I was more comfortable with zooming fast instead.

But is there a way around this?

Ryan Elder · January 10th, 2019, 09:57 PM

As for shooting at higher frame rate for fast motion the camera can only shoot as low as 24 and no lower unfortunately.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 10th, 2019, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Wray

.

But is there a way around this?

Yes film a romantic comedy instead

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2019, 12:09 AM

Okay thanks, but it's too late for that now :)

Brian Drysdale · January 11th, 2019, 04:21 AM

As a matter of interest, why to you wish go wider rather than move into the action? Are there people running in to join the fight?

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2019, 12:43 PM

Oh I wanted to start out with a close up of the main character peaking around the corner than go wider to reveal the people hiding behind walls, and pillars waiting to ambush him. If that makes sense as to why I want to go wider?

Brian Drysdale · January 11th, 2019, 04:46 PM

I suspect that would work better as a slow dolly short, revealing the danger. This is the old Hitchcock suspense concept, the crash zoom is more surprise. The audience will be more emotionally involved if you tease them with the increasing danger as the main character enters the space moving ever closer to the threatening figures. .

http://www.thereversegear.com/hitchc...-and-surprise/

January 10th, 2019, 02:49 PM	#31
Brad Kraus New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Calgary, AB Canada Posts: 24	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Ryan, may I suggest an option you may not have considered? If getting this particular shot (and getting it right) is as important to you as it sounds like, you may want to consider contacting a few AV rentals place in Saskatoon and look into renting a higher end digital cinematic camera and lens for a day (or half day if you plan it right) for just this one shot then color match, etc in post. It shouldn't be too expensive but then you have exactly the shot you want and how you want it.... Just food for thought. Whatever you do decide to do, all the best! If you can, please share your finished results here. I'd love to see it!

January 10th, 2019, 03:03 PM	#32
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks. It's just that I am worried about the camera footage not matching if I use a different camera compared to the rest of the footage. Also whenever I rent, I have to book weeks in advance, and if one person in the cast and crew has to reschedule anything, I cannot get the rental then. In the past, renting has been very tough cause of this. But I can certainly try. Or if tracking it is going to look even better, than I can do that, I am just not sure how to track it fast enough.

January 10th, 2019, 05:18 PM	#33
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? You can apply a speed ramp in post during the edit, many NLEs allow you to do these. Even if the track is slower than the the crash zoom, it will still carry more energy than the zoom, especially in an action sequence. For a fast move you're better running forward than a going backwards, Steadicam probably has the advantage for this, but you could try the same with a gimbal mount. Having the gimbal facing back as the operator runs forward. Practice should get a good technique.. Not as fast as a crash zoom, but more power. Martin Scorsese // Fast Dolly Zoom in on Vimeo Last edited by Brian Drysdale; January 10th, 2019 at 05:59 PM.

January 10th, 2019, 06:01 PM	#34
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Oh yeah for sure I would definitely run forwards compared to backwards. However, if I speed it up in post, how do I make it look non-sped up? Like when I take frames out to speed up the footage, you can tell there is missing frames, and it looks unintentionally cheesy. Plus the actors in the shot are moving faster, where as I just want to speed up the camera movement and not have the actors look sped up. Is this possible?

January 10th, 2019, 07:02 PM	#35
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Basic rule is you shoot at a higher frame rate for slow motion and at a lower rate for fast motion. https://www.diyphotography.net/learn...st-10-minutes/ Most cameras only offer 24, 30 and maybe 60 but I've found you can do both even if filmed at a normal rate. Speeding up in the editor more forgiving than slow motion. Speed changes are always ramped. Again whether you'll be able to do it will depend on your editing software both Premiere and FCPX will. So you might go from normal speed and ramp up to twice the speed.

January 10th, 2019, 07:15 PM	#36
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks but what do you mean by 'ramp' in this context? Is ramp an actual Premiere Pro term for example? I have Premiere Pro. What feature in Premiere Pro are you referring to?

January 10th, 2019, 07:22 PM	#37
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? ramping is acceleration or deceleration of video speed.

January 10th, 2019, 08:05 PM	#38
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? You would find a clip speed control in your NLE, and keyframe that effect on that particular clip to go from normal speed to 200% or 2x or whatever your software calls it, then back to normal at the right time. You could try to get a friend or whoever to help you test having the actors do that shot at half speed so when it is sped up it looks normal. That’s the only way to know if itll work for you. Tests. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 10th, 2019, 09:23 PM	#39
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks, I am just worried it will look like the actors are moving fake, when they try to fake moving slow. I can't really test it cause I don't have the gimbal yet and will not have it till later on before production. That's why I was hoping to know if it would work sooner than that. But I can test it later if need be. Every time I try get an actor to fake something physical like that, it always comes off looking fake, which is why I prefer the real deal if I can. Another thing is, when I move a camera really fast, there is a serious rolling shutter jello effect going on. Especially when you move a camera as fast as you can. That's another reason why I was more comfortable with zooming fast instead. But is there a way around this?

January 10th, 2019, 09:57 PM	#40
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? As for shooting at higher frame rate for fast motion the camera can only shoot as low as 24 and no lower unfortunately.

January 11th, 2019, 12:09 AM	#42
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Okay thanks, but it's too late for that now :)

January 11th, 2019, 04:21 AM	#43
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? As a matter of interest, why to you wish go wider rather than move into the action? Are there people running in to join the fight?

January 11th, 2019, 12:43 PM	#44
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? Oh I wanted to start out with a close up of the main character peaking around the corner than go wider to reveal the people hiding behind walls, and pillars waiting to ambush him. If that makes sense as to why I want to go wider?

January 11th, 2019, 04:46 PM	#45
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming? I suspect that would work better as a slow dolly short, revealing the danger. This is the old Hitchcock suspense concept, the crash zoom is more surprise. The audience will be more emotionally involved if you tease them with the increasing danger as the main character enters the space moving ever closer to the threatening figures. . http://www.thereversegear.com/hitchc...-and-surprise/