What equipment is good for this type of camera movement?

Ryan Elder · June 20th, 2019, 08:00 PM

Okay thanks, I've tried renting before, but the store is always booked up for weeks and shoot dates change a lot, so I haven't been able to depend on the stores because of that.

The stores have dollies, but no jibs. A jib might work to get that type of move I want but it would have to be rather large, and so would the location to support it. I am guessing a dolly may be better but not sure.

I thought about getting a tripod dolly, like the ones made by proaim, but I was told that they do not do well with smoothness, even with track underneath if that's true.

So maybe the best thing to do is either get that or a jib.

Paul R Johnson · June 21st, 2019, 01:20 AM

Ryan you've got your blinkers on again. A dolly will work if the floor is good. If it isn't, then the added cost and effort of track is bad. Plus, do you have the time and patience to practice. It's damn hard work to get the coordination. A jib will NOT do the same thing. The centre of movement would need to be on the inside. To move the camera in a circle around the actor means the pivot needs to be inside the circle!

Why do you always want to do things you can't do? You never have money, you never seem willing to put any work into your projects but you demand perfection or the collection of new skills instantly. We suggest workarounds and you just ignor them.

For goodness sake. Borrow a shopping trolley. Sit in it and get somebody to push you!!! Why would you buy something you will only use once because next week, you'll want to buy lights? I've pushed cameras on post trolleys, luggage trucks, even once a kiddies battery operated car. You're just making excuses. People are telling you sensible things and for some reason, you ignore them. I don't know why you ask if you are never ever going to take advice from people who have done these things. Ask your friends again, they'll suggest more crazy impractical things. Just think and improvise. If you need a tracking shot, then create it. Have you even bothered to try any of the ideas people have suggested. If you have money to waste buy the rolling skid from proaim. Don't then come back and ask us how to make it go in the right direction, because without considerable practice, they don't. I expect tha another new topic.

It does seem that we are putting more effort into your projects than you do!

Ryan Elder · June 23rd, 2019, 12:02 AM

Okay thanks, sorry I will try to be more open to work arounds. I tried the shopping trolley before, but when you move it, it makes noise, that is picked up by the microphone. That is why I wasn't open to DIY solutions cause then ones I tried before, would make noise, so I thought maybe I could use something professional, cause I figured it would be made to be quiet then.

Josh Bass · June 23rd, 2019, 01:01 AM

At the risk of keeping the circus going--again, that's why you have to evaluate what you actually have available in terms of money, equipment, etc., and work around it, which really means WRITING around it. Can't do a smooth dolly move and can't live with a janky one? Then no dolly move for you. That may also mean no gimbal move or anything of the sort. Rewrite the scene or rethink the visual approach to it. That's all there is to it. In other words, you may simply not be able to make the movie in your head right now. We low budget indie guys all face this. You have to compromise (sometimes severely), abandon the project and tackle something you have the resources to do (write stories around what people/locations/gear you have available), or find real funding to make your dream movie. Those are the choices.

Frank Grygier · June 23rd, 2019, 07:15 AM

I have done this type of shot with the cameraman sitting in a wheel chair with the camera on his shoulder. The shot can be stabilized in post if needed. This is what the Hollywood boys use. https://products.msegrip.com/collections/dollies-track. You can see the similarities to a cart you can buy at Harbor Freight for a lot less money. If it squeaks use some lubricant on the wheels.

Ryan Elder · June 23rd, 2019, 07:43 AM

Okay thanks. That dolly looks like it has wheels that handle shock absorption so maybe I can do something like that, with such wheels. A wheelchair or shopping cart might work, if I can get rid of the noise, so I can try oil.

Also, I can use the gimbal since we already have one to compromise as well. Even though the gimbal is not as leveled in height, perhaps it's still better than nothing, as a compromise...

Brian Drysdale · June 23rd, 2019, 10:04 AM

You can rent anything you want from rental companies, go to a larger or more comprehensively equipped rental company. These people are used to renting out kit at short notice for commercials and music videos , so it not being available at short notice is just the people you're dealing with, many have arrangements with other rental companies if they need to hire in.

You don't get vibrations from good dollies, depending on the model they have jib arms.

You can use less expensive dollies on tracks, eg a Doorway dolly.

BTW these can have pneumatic wheels fitted, so you can track on a relatively smooth surface.

Use the right kit for the shots, although you may not be able to afford one of these:

I hope this thread isn't going to go around in circles( which you can also do on a dolly).

Paul R Johnson · June 23rd, 2019, 11:08 AM

I was shopping this afternoon and had a shopping trolley - so did hundreds of other people. None made any noise a microphone could capture. I'm not quite sure what part makes a noise that oil would cure. Probably just British shopping trolleys are silent, and US one clanky. Although something tells me that just isn't the case. Your AST mic can't be boomed because it makes funny noises and it can't be used near a shopping trolley either? Wow! The list of things this mic can't do is growing. I rather like the wheelchair idea - you could mount a monopod to it for a little height. Improvised kit always stays in my head for future use.

For what it's worth I discovered a year or so back that if your location has rough concrete - like many factory screeded floors, you can do smooth camera movement with a jib on a rolling tripod. I have an very old Vinten Dolphin arm on a Vinten OB tripod with 4" wheels and if you shoot with the jib arm horizontal, the weight of the arm balanced really smooths out the vibration as the wheels jiggle over the rough floor.

Brian Drysdale · June 23rd, 2019, 12:39 PM

There are industrial trolleys/dollies that can be converted into a camera dolly. Or, if someone has some engineering ability, you can buy the wheels and build a basic platform dolly.

https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...leys/461670.wf

https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...eels/459451.wf

Here's a DIY doorway dolly for some ideas

Also

Even more low budget

Brian Drysdale · June 24th, 2019, 01:16 AM

Loading the shopping trolley with some sandbags should dampen down any vibrations..

Pete Cofrancesco · June 24th, 2019, 04:49 AM

This is a trolley

Paul R Johnson · June 24th, 2019, 05:23 AM

No this is a trolley.
https://www.abis-uk.com/getmetafile/...axsidesize=680
so is this
https://cdn-01.media-brady.com/store...d.lang.all.jpg

but this

http://picturesofgateshead.co.uk/pos...ms1/ophg3w.jpg

is a tram.

Brian Drysdale · June 24th, 2019, 06:56 AM

Further translations can be found here:

https://www.spellzone.com/blog/Sixty...unterparts.htm

Josh Bass · June 24th, 2019, 10:42 AM

Be real careful with that $50 dolly design...I built some similar and it squeaked on pvc pipe (for track) in a way that made it unusable for sound. Was told by others (ha, where have we heard THAT phrase) it was a design flaw (though I dont remember what the flaw was—-wheel softness, pvc track, the whole design?) and would never be silent without a redesign.

Paul R Johnson · June 24th, 2019, 10:43 AM

One of the other easily usable things we often have to hand are flight cases. Very handy to use for cameras. They get the lens at sensible heights, they're sturdy enough to be used for this kind of purpose. The only tricky thing being that they have 4 casters that move. On my own home made bodges over the years two fixed casters at the front and two normal ones at the rear work rather well for moving cameras.

Ryan - you said you'd had issues trying this out. What kind of shots went wrong with the tracks you tried. I've been thinking about noise. I cannot remember any times where noise was a problem. The usual issues were all to do with movement. Going the wrong way, or jerky, or unwanted vertical movement. If you have a gimbal - getting your shot must be doable?

June 20th, 2019, 08:00 PM	#16
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Okay thanks, I've tried renting before, but the store is always booked up for weeks and shoot dates change a lot, so I haven't been able to depend on the stores because of that. The stores have dollies, but no jibs. A jib might work to get that type of move I want but it would have to be rather large, and so would the location to support it. I am guessing a dolly may be better but not sure. I thought about getting a tripod dolly, like the ones made by proaim, but I was told that they do not do well with smoothness, even with track underneath if that's true. So maybe the best thing to do is either get that or a jib.

June 21st, 2019, 01:20 AM	#17
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Ryan you've got your blinkers on again. A dolly will work if the floor is good. If it isn't, then the added cost and effort of track is bad. Plus, do you have the time and patience to practice. It's damn hard work to get the coordination. A jib will NOT do the same thing. The centre of movement would need to be on the inside. To move the camera in a circle around the actor means the pivot needs to be inside the circle! Why do you always want to do things you can't do? You never have money, you never seem willing to put any work into your projects but you demand perfection or the collection of new skills instantly. We suggest workarounds and you just ignor them. For goodness sake. Borrow a shopping trolley. Sit in it and get somebody to push you!!! Why would you buy something you will only use once because next week, you'll want to buy lights? I've pushed cameras on post trolleys, luggage trucks, even once a kiddies battery operated car. You're just making excuses. People are telling you sensible things and for some reason, you ignore them. I don't know why you ask if you are never ever going to take advice from people who have done these things. Ask your friends again, they'll suggest more crazy impractical things. Just think and improvise. If you need a tracking shot, then create it. Have you even bothered to try any of the ideas people have suggested. If you have money to waste buy the rolling skid from proaim. Don't then come back and ask us how to make it go in the right direction, because without considerable practice, they don't. I expect tha another new topic. It does seem that we are putting more effort into your projects than you do!

June 23rd, 2019, 12:02 AM	#18
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Okay thanks, sorry I will try to be more open to work arounds. I tried the shopping trolley before, but when you move it, it makes noise, that is picked up by the microphone. That is why I wasn't open to DIY solutions cause then ones I tried before, would make noise, so I thought maybe I could use something professional, cause I figured it would be made to be quiet then.

June 23rd, 2019, 01:01 AM	#19
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? At the risk of keeping the circus going--again, that's why you have to evaluate what you actually have available in terms of money, equipment, etc., and work around it, which really means WRITING around it. Can't do a smooth dolly move and can't live with a janky one? Then no dolly move for you. That may also mean no gimbal move or anything of the sort. Rewrite the scene or rethink the visual approach to it. That's all there is to it. In other words, you may simply not be able to make the movie in your head right now. We low budget indie guys all face this. You have to compromise (sometimes severely), abandon the project and tackle something you have the resources to do (write stories around what people/locations/gear you have available), or find real funding to make your dream movie. Those are the choices. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 23rd, 2019, 07:15 AM	#20
Frank Grygier Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 125	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? I have done this type of shot with the cameraman sitting in a wheel chair with the camera on his shoulder. The shot can be stabilized in post if needed. This is what the Hollywood boys use. https://products.msegrip.com/collections/dollies-track. You can see the similarities to a cart you can buy at Harbor Freight for a lot less money. If it squeaks use some lubricant on the wheels.

June 23rd, 2019, 07:43 AM	#21
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Okay thanks. That dolly looks like it has wheels that handle shock absorption so maybe I can do something like that, with such wheels. A wheelchair or shopping cart might work, if I can get rid of the noise, so I can try oil. Also, I can use the gimbal since we already have one to compromise as well. Even though the gimbal is not as leveled in height, perhaps it's still better than nothing, as a compromise...

June 23rd, 2019, 10:04 AM	#22
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? You can rent anything you want from rental companies, go to a larger or more comprehensively equipped rental company. These people are used to renting out kit at short notice for commercials and music videos , so it not being available at short notice is just the people you're dealing with, many have arrangements with other rental companies if they need to hire in. You don't get vibrations from good dollies, depending on the model they have jib arms. Cinema Verde Productions Dolly Track Demo - YouTube You can use less expensive dollies on tracks, eg a Doorway dolly. BTW these can have pneumatic wheels fitted, so you can track on a relatively smooth surface. Use the right kit for the shots, although you may not be able to afford one of these: Film & Video Grip Equipment: The Hybrid 4 Camera Dolly at Chapman UK - YouTube I hope this thread isn't going to go around in circles( which you can also do on a dolly).

June 23rd, 2019, 11:08 AM	#23
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? I was shopping this afternoon and had a shopping trolley - so did hundreds of other people. None made any noise a microphone could capture. I'm not quite sure what part makes a noise that oil would cure. Probably just British shopping trolleys are silent, and US one clanky. Although something tells me that just isn't the case. Your AST mic can't be boomed because it makes funny noises and it can't be used near a shopping trolley either? Wow! The list of things this mic can't do is growing. I rather like the wheelchair idea - you could mount a monopod to it for a little height. Improvised kit always stays in my head for future use. For what it's worth I discovered a year or so back that if your location has rough concrete - like many factory screeded floors, you can do smooth camera movement with a jib on a rolling tripod. I have an very old Vinten Dolphin arm on a Vinten OB tripod with 4" wheels and if you shoot with the jib arm horizontal, the weight of the arm balanced really smooths out the vibration as the wheels jiggle over the rough floor.

June 23rd, 2019, 12:39 PM	#24
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? There are industrial trolleys/dollies that can be converted into a camera dolly. Or, if someone has some engineering ability, you can buy the wheels and build a basic platform dolly. https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...leys/461670.wf https://www.ajproducts.co.uk/warehou...eels/459451.wf Here's a DIY doorway dolly for some ideas DIY Doorway Dolly - YouTube Also Doorway Dolly and track - YouTube Even more low budget How to Build a Dolly Track for $50 (Cinematography Hacks) \| Filmmaking Tips - YouTube Last edited by Brian Drysdale; June 23rd, 2019 at 04:39 PM.

June 24th, 2019, 01:16 AM	#25
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Loading the shopping trolley with some sandbags should dampen down any vibrations..

June 24th, 2019, 04:49 AM	#26
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? This is a trolley Mister Rogers' Neighborhood: Model Trolley and Big Trolley - YouTube

June 24th, 2019, 05:23 AM	#27
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? No this is a trolley. https://www.abis-uk.com/getmetafile/...axsidesize=680 so is this https://cdn-01.media-brady.com/store...d.lang.all.jpg but this http://picturesofgateshead.co.uk/pos...ms1/ophg3w.jpg is a tram.

June 24th, 2019, 06:56 AM	#28
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Further translations can be found here: https://www.spellzone.com/blog/Sixty...unterparts.htm

June 24th, 2019, 10:42 AM	#29
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? Be real careful with that $50 dolly design...I built some similar and it squeaked on pvc pipe (for track) in a way that made it unusable for sound. Was told by others (ha, where have we heard THAT phrase) it was a design flaw (though I dont remember what the flaw was—-wheel softness, pvc track, the whole design?) and would never be silent without a redesign. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 24th, 2019, 10:43 AM	#30
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What equipment is good for this type of camera movement? One of the other easily usable things we often have to hand are flight cases. Very handy to use for cameras. They get the lens at sensible heights, they're sturdy enough to be used for this kind of purpose. The only tricky thing being that they have 4 casters that move. On my own home made bodges over the years two fixed casters at the front and two normal ones at the rear work rather well for moving cameras. Ryan - you said you'd had issues trying this out. What kind of shots went wrong with the tracks you tried. I've been thinking about noise. I cannot remember any times where noise was a problem. The usual issues were all to do with movement. Going the wrong way, or jerky, or unwanted vertical movement. If you have a gimbal - getting your shot must be doable?