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Old February 7th, 2020, 02:19 PM   #1
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What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

I want to get a new camera since my Canon T2i is wearing old.

I asked around some say to get a blackmagic pocket camera. I want a camera that is not full frame, because then I have a little more deep DOF, but also if I want to use a telephoto lens, I can make the lens even longer therefore.

But I also want one where during color grading, I can separate the skin tones in Da Vinci, without having color noise issues. In a thread long before, I talked about how I was having trouble separating the skin tones, from the rest of the color in a scene:

https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv...tter-than.html

I was told before that it was because of my cameras codec issues, so I want a camera where you can separate the skin tones, successfully, without noise issues. But can the blackmagic cameras do that successfully?

Or are there better cameras for these needs?
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Old February 7th, 2020, 02:52 PM   #2
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

The BM Pocket 4K and 6K are great for grading.

Generally for good grading, you need at least a 10bit camera preferably supporting 4:2:2 or better supporting some log format.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 03:11 PM   #3
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh okay, well as I understand it, the Canon T2i I have is 8 bit and 4:2:0. Does the extra 2 bits and the extra 4:2:2: as oppose to 4:2:0 really make a lot more difference in grading without noise issues?
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Old February 7th, 2020, 04:56 PM   #4
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Yes, it makes a big difference.

Basically with an 8-bit 4:2:0 in Rec709, there is no much room for any grading.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 05:10 PM   #5
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh okay thanks. As long as the new camera with that codec actually works though, and I can isolate the skin tones, completely, with no noise :)
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Old February 7th, 2020, 09:31 PM   #6
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh lord.

The cam/codec is only a small part of it. If you dont light correctly and have art direction and set design oriented toward separating skin tones, the best cam in the world isnt going to help you

Conversely, if you DO do those things, even your T2i probably wouldnt have too much of an issue.

Dont go thinking buying a new cam is going to magically make DaVinci able to distinguish skin tones from similarly colored things around them with identical lighting levels. All those things have to work together.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 10:39 PM   #7
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

He referring to Davinci Resolve ability to separate skin tones from the background. You can see it in this video.

This is a rehash of Ryan wanting to change the wall color of a location wall he wasn't allowed to repaint.

For that type of grade I actually think 10bit color would be helpful and BMPCC 4k is the most affordable camera currently on the market.

Yes it's probably the case there are far more important areas he should be concentrating on. The other thing is that many of these tutorials use video that would be easiest to employ this technique ie a subject that isn't moving, in front of a different looking background, and properly light.

I wouldn't get worked up too much since I can't see him being able to afford the necessary equipment and grading process.

Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; February 7th, 2020 at 11:23 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 10:58 PM   #8
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

I'm sure a better codec IS helpful but the question itself is flawed, since it should be "what things do I need to do when filming to pave the way for a grade that allows separation of skin tones from background" and instead, what I see is "I'm about to spend money on a camera and fail to realize it will not solve my issue".
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:34 PM   #9
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

With Ryan it’s mostly talk. Last year it was super telephotos, then cinema lenses, most recently gimbals and now 10 bit cameras. But I agree it’s an odd reason to buy a camera to solve such a specific problem.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:42 PM   #10
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
Oh lord.

The cam/codec is only a small part of it. If you dont light correctly and have art direction and set design oriented toward separating skin tones, the best cam in the world isnt going to help you

Conversely, if you DO do those things, even your T2i probably wouldnt have too much of an issue.

Dont go thinking buying a new cam is going to magically make DaVinci able to distinguish skin tones from similarly colored things around them with identical lighting levels. All those things have to work together.
Oh okay thanks, but what if it's an outdoor scene and you cannot light because the sun has already lit everything much more powerfully than lights would.

How do you separate the skin tones if you are outdoors and it's uncontrolled more? But I do see movies where the skin tones look separated, even though it's outdoors though. How do they do it?

For example I watched the movie The Farewell (2019), and noticed that it had a teal and orange type of color grade, which you need to separate the skin tone in order to do. However, the outdoor scenes had this as well with the city streets in the background and the streets are blue. Unless they literally were allowed to repaint the entire streets and statues on the streets, blue, and this is not a teal and orange grade done in post?
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:45 PM   #11
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

The pick a location that facilitates the separation (colors that don't compete with skin tones) or more likely, they have a budget and they use lights and flags to control things.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:48 PM   #12
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh okay, but in the movie how did they make the outdoors look so blue? Did they light the background blue, but blue enough that it overpowers the sun?
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:54 PM   #13
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Sorry I didn't see the part about the The Farewell.

It's a 50/50 thing...you dress people, pick locations, light, possibly design set/art direct with that look in mind for post, and you take it the rest of the way in post. So maybe everything blue in the final look was grey in real life or at least desaturated, if not grey, in real life...no strong colors.

In the video Pete posted, notice how she's wearing a nearly colorless shirt, and standing against a grey wall. If it was a peach colored wall or a red shirt or both, that colorist would have had some issues.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 11:57 PM   #14
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh okay, but what about videos I see where they have a very teal and orange look and it's outside though? A filmmaker cannot light in pure sunlight, cause the sun will over power everything, of course. So how do they do the lighting to separate the skin tone, when the sun is out and it's outside?
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Old February 8th, 2020, 12:59 AM   #15
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

There are actually ARE lights that can compete with the sun, at least to a degree. Furthermore, there are flags, silks, etc....giant things to diffuse or block direct sunlight, at which point you can make your own sun/create your own outdoor lighting with an HMI or other powerful light, especially in closeups or tighter shots that don't show as much environment. There's also shooting at the right time of day in the right location, facing the right way...making sure the sun is hitting the things you want it to while leaving the rest in shadow. Any number of solutions for outdoor on a sunny day, with a proper budget.

And there's always frame by frame rotoscoping the grade (draw mask around skin, push toward orange, color inverse teal, move to next frame, tweak mask, rinse and repeat) when none of the above are viable.
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