What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Brian Drysdale · February 12th, 2020, 05:30 PM

I wouldn't say it's easier for the composer, usually it's the other way around, getting good music is a problem for many films without a budget.

Ryan Elder · February 12th, 2020, 05:32 PM

Oh okay, so far it's been easier for me as long as the composer has a good repertoire of instruments in their computer packages, and are good of course.

Paul R Johnson · February 13th, 2020, 12:06 PM

I think that to be able to create music for video is a pretty tough process. I can assure you the collection of instruments in the computer is but a tiny part of the process.

Ryan Elder · February 14th, 2020, 02:21 AM

Yeah for sure, it's just of all the shortcomings I was told of in my past projects, the composers' music was never one of them that was mentioned, so I thought I had that area probably covered compared to the ones that I was told to work on.

Brian Drysdale · February 14th, 2020, 06:46 AM

The music requirements can vary from film to film, so you need to ensure that the music composer can fulfill the needs of the film you are making. .

Ryan Elder · February 14th, 2020, 11:47 AM

Yep for sure. For this one new one I was thinking of hiring someone different, but then again, I already have a good working relationship with the other composer I worked with a few times so far. So I am wondering should I stick to the one I have a good relationship with, or try someone new... Pros and cons to each. What I could do is listen to samples of new composers and then decide.

Paul R Johnson · February 15th, 2020, 03:16 PM

Here's a couple of things we've done over the past year or two. Visuals and the music from us.

Ryan Elder · February 15th, 2020, 04:23 PM

Oh okay thanks. The first video wouldn't play but the second one did. Very good. Did you use a helicopter or drone for that shot? I also was thinking of shooting a feature in black and white, but thought maybe it's too risky, when trying to attract an audience. When it comes to music, what is the bass brass instrument in the video?

Paul R Johnson · February 16th, 2020, 12:53 AM

It one of the low brass in Spitfire Albion, but blended with strings and woods too - essentially a trombone but the raspy sort. Drone footage.

Ryan Elder · February 16th, 2020, 01:36 PM

Oh okay thanks. A lot of people are using drones now, but it seems to me, that when I do the math on the costs, and the price for a drone licences and drone insurance, that's actually cheapter to rent a real helicopter pilot to fly you around. Is that true? But if that's true, than why are drones more popular now?

Brian Drysdale · February 16th, 2020, 03:06 PM

You can fly a lot lower with a drone and you don't get the downdraft. Helicopters cant go closer than 500ft to objects without special permission, while drones can't go higher than 500ft.in Europe or 400ft in the USA.

You also need the camera mount in the helicopter.

Ryan Elder · February 16th, 2020, 03:39 PM

Oh okay, it's just that the drone cameras they use have such wide lenses, does the ability to go lower really matter if you have a telephoto?

Brian Drysdale · February 16th, 2020, 05:09 PM

You need a high end gyro mount to remove the vibration on telephoto lenses, quite apart from the look of a wider lens is very different to that of long focal length lens.

Get a high end drone, which allows you to change the lens on the camera.

The perspective changes as you move in closer.

The choice between a helicopter and a drone will depend on the subject matter, how high you need to go, the speed you require and the loiter time.

Paul R Johnson · February 17th, 2020, 01:17 AM

I am by no means an expert and fly mine entirely for pleasure now the rules make commercial operation far too expensive, and of course, the market is saturated - but helicopters are far too expensive, and often charges are down to the minute! They also suffer from severe vibration, so using them for movie making, rather than news gathering means engaging a firm with proper gyro stabilised pods, and permanent internal fittting - plus more people, who are always expensive.

Dronse fly in limited vertical airpsace, but this is exactly the right place for a wide angle lens to look good. Helicopters would be as Brian says, higher, and need to be tighter, which causes lenses to need stabilisation. In non-pod fitted helicopters shooting from them is horrible. Many pilots are not trained at things camera people ask for. Helicopters can fly sideways so allowing the camera to approach objects - but ask a pilot with 5000 hours in the logbook how many hours he has flying sideways and you'll discover the answer is painfully few. Some notable crashes over the years caused by pilot error carrying out aerial video work. Flying around a lighthouse - a common request - is a particularly dangerous activity to a lower hours pilot, but a common request from the video people.

Drones have typically short range - the rules mean that if you can't see them, you're too far away, and you can't go high - 400ft is the highest most will fly due to the geofencing and protection built into the popular ones. They're great things for a limited range of stuff. I gave up 6 months ago because of the hassle, rules and misunderstanding from members of the public - plus the understandable attitude of those who have spent thousands doing training. The new registration system here which I did, and took the test, still makes the damn things a pain. I now pass this to poeple local to me who do it better, have better gear, and carry the can if it goes wrong.

Ryan Elder · February 17th, 2020, 08:09 PM

Oh okay thanks, that's good to know. I think for my projects I will just forget about aerial shots, as I won't have enough on the shotlist for it to be worth it, I don't think.

Also when it comes to deciding on a new camera, what about night shooting? Do the blackmagics, which I was told to get have as good of an ISO for shooting at night, like the Sony A7s II for example? I know I keep being told to light at night instead, but when it comes to shots of an entire street, it's hard to light the entire street.

What about how these scenes are lit, in Dirty Harry I noticed. There is a scene in a park, where as a script I want to do, also has a scene in a park at night. In Dirty Harry, they light the park like this:

They still leave a lot of the park dark, especially in the opening wide shots of Harry walking through it.

Also in the scene, at 1:07 into the clip, they show a view of the street:

The street is still quite dark. So do you think with this kind of cinematography, I can pull off shooting at night, since this type is still darker than usual for movies, and does not have near as many lights by comparison?

February 12th, 2020, 05:30 PM	#106
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I wouldn't say it's easier for the composer, usually it's the other way around, getting good music is a problem for many films without a budget.

February 12th, 2020, 05:32 PM	#107
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, so far it's been easier for me as long as the composer has a good repertoire of instruments in their computer packages, and are good of course.

February 13th, 2020, 12:06 PM	#108
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I think that to be able to create music for video is a pretty tough process. I can assure you the collection of instruments in the computer is but a tiny part of the process.

February 14th, 2020, 02:21 AM	#109
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yeah for sure, it's just of all the shortcomings I was told of in my past projects, the composers' music was never one of them that was mentioned, so I thought I had that area probably covered compared to the ones that I was told to work on.

February 14th, 2020, 06:46 AM	#110
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? The music requirements can vary from film to film, so you need to ensure that the music composer can fulfill the needs of the film you are making. .

February 14th, 2020, 11:47 AM	#111
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yep for sure. For this one new one I was thinking of hiring someone different, but then again, I already have a good working relationship with the other composer I worked with a few times so far. So I am wondering should I stick to the one I have a good relationship with, or try someone new... Pros and cons to each. What I could do is listen to samples of new composers and then decide.

February 15th, 2020, 03:16 PM	#112
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? timescape titles with audio on Vimeo chain home titles v3 on Vimeo Here's a couple of things we've done over the past year or two. Visuals and the music from us.

February 15th, 2020, 04:23 PM	#113
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay thanks. The first video wouldn't play but the second one did. Very good. Did you use a helicopter or drone for that shot? I also was thinking of shooting a feature in black and white, but thought maybe it's too risky, when trying to attract an audience. When it comes to music, what is the bass brass instrument in the video?

February 16th, 2020, 12:53 AM	#114
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? It one of the low brass in Spitfire Albion, but blended with strings and woods too - essentially a trombone but the raspy sort. Drone footage.

February 16th, 2020, 01:36 PM	#115
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay thanks. A lot of people are using drones now, but it seems to me, that when I do the math on the costs, and the price for a drone licences and drone insurance, that's actually cheapter to rent a real helicopter pilot to fly you around. Is that true? But if that's true, than why are drones more popular now?

February 16th, 2020, 03:06 PM	#116
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? You can fly a lot lower with a drone and you don't get the downdraft. Helicopters cant go closer than 500ft to objects without special permission, while drones can't go higher than 500ft.in Europe or 400ft in the USA. You also need the camera mount in the helicopter.

February 16th, 2020, 03:39 PM	#117
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, it's just that the drone cameras they use have such wide lenses, does the ability to go lower really matter if you have a telephoto?

February 16th, 2020, 05:09 PM	#118
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? You need a high end gyro mount to remove the vibration on telephoto lenses, quite apart from the look of a wider lens is very different to that of long focal length lens. Get a high end drone, which allows you to change the lens on the camera. The perspective changes as you move in closer. The choice between a helicopter and a drone will depend on the subject matter, how high you need to go, the speed you require and the loiter time.

February 17th, 2020, 01:17 AM	#119
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I am by no means an expert and fly mine entirely for pleasure now the rules make commercial operation far too expensive, and of course, the market is saturated - but helicopters are far too expensive, and often charges are down to the minute! They also suffer from severe vibration, so using them for movie making, rather than news gathering means engaging a firm with proper gyro stabilised pods, and permanent internal fittting - plus more people, who are always expensive. Dronse fly in limited vertical airpsace, but this is exactly the right place for a wide angle lens to look good. Helicopters would be as Brian says, higher, and need to be tighter, which causes lenses to need stabilisation. In non-pod fitted helicopters shooting from them is horrible. Many pilots are not trained at things camera people ask for. Helicopters can fly sideways so allowing the camera to approach objects - but ask a pilot with 5000 hours in the logbook how many hours he has flying sideways and you'll discover the answer is painfully few. Some notable crashes over the years caused by pilot error carrying out aerial video work. Flying around a lighthouse - a common request - is a particularly dangerous activity to a lower hours pilot, but a common request from the video people. Drones have typically short range - the rules mean that if you can't see them, you're too far away, and you can't go high - 400ft is the highest most will fly due to the geofencing and protection built into the popular ones. They're great things for a limited range of stuff. I gave up 6 months ago because of the hassle, rules and misunderstanding from members of the public - plus the understandable attitude of those who have spent thousands doing training. The new registration system here which I did, and took the test, still makes the damn things a pain. I now pass this to poeple local to me who do it better, have better gear, and carry the can if it goes wrong.

February 17th, 2020, 08:09 PM	#120
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay thanks, that's good to know. I think for my projects I will just forget about aerial shots, as I won't have enough on the shotlist for it to be worth it, I don't think. Also when it comes to deciding on a new camera, what about night shooting? Do the blackmagics, which I was told to get have as good of an ISO for shooting at night, like the Sony A7s II for example? I know I keep being told to light at night instead, but when it comes to shots of an entire street, it's hard to light the entire street. What about how these scenes are lit, in Dirty Harry I noticed. There is a scene in a park, where as a script I want to do, also has a scene in a park at night. In Dirty Harry, they light the park like this: Dirty Harry - The Cross Scene - YouTube They still leave a lot of the park dark, especially in the opening wide shots of Harry walking through it. Also in the scene, at 1:07 into the clip, they show a view of the street: Dirty Harry - Suicide Jumper Scene - YouTube The street is still quite dark. So do you think with this kind of cinematography, I can pull off shooting at night, since this type is still darker than usual for movies, and does not have near as many lights by comparison? Last edited by Ryan Elder; February 18th, 2020 at 12:35 AM.