What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Brian Drysdale · February 23rd, 2020, 02:35 PM

By not letting the cast and crew get the best results possible within that's actually the available you are that "director from hell". They will feel let down by a director can't see their full potential and their efforts may come to nothing in the great scheme of things.

Paul R Johnson · February 23rd, 2020, 02:53 PM

Getting done quickly and getting a great result is very different from getting done quickly when you should have done another take, and doing another take when there was no need is a waste of everybody's time.

Every time you say "and again, please" is forgiven when the turns know they could have done better, and you recognised that. Saying "One more time please" when they know it's already gone off the boil, makes them tell everyone they can that you are one of 'those' directors.

You have already details many times when people tell you things that are NOT how they really feel. Perhaps to not hurt your feelings, or perhaps just because you have driven them mad.

Many directors are also actors, and vice versa. Two stick in my mind because they direct with an actor's eye, and the know when they've got the best it's going to go. I know one at the opposite end of the scale who does wonderful work, but drives his cast and crew around the bend. He doesn't believe anyone else and he doesn't take advice if he can avoid it. I often wonder how good his end products would be if he simply recognised the strengths of his contributors and let them run a little. He once got very angry with me because I didn't know he was going to over-run, and I should have told him. I told him that I didn't have second sight, and only knew when he said - "OK, let's do it again..."

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 03:00 PM

Oh okay. Yes I will try to take more time then on future shoots without hopefully going over time. On my first short, one of the shoots took 16 hours, so I really want to avoid that if possible. But at the same time, want to bring out everyone's full potential therefore.

I usually take suggestions that are given to me, and some of them have been quite good, and used them. The only suggestion I didn't take is one of the actors suggested I shoot a different alternate ending, but I felt that ending wouldn't work at all, plus it would cost more money what he wanted to do, that I just didn't want to budget, for ending I thought, didn't work. So I refused that suggestion, but I think that is the only one I refused. However, a lot of times people do not give suggestions, maybe because they feel like it's not their place? When I work under different directions, I don't give suggestions cause I feel like it's not place, if that's true.

Paul R Johnson · February 23rd, 2020, 03:20 PM

Some people find it nearly impossible to shut up - especially when they know their idea is better, others just keep quiet, thinking it's not their place to comment. Context is everything. 16 hours for a shoot I hope, and not a shot! seriously though, 16 hours in one day is asking an awful lot from people.

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 03:37 PM

Yeah it was for a whole sequence, not just one shot. Yeah that's why I want to cut things down, and not have to shoot for so long and be able to get things done a lot quicker in comparison, and not go overbudget as well. My last three shoots where I was directing, I managed to do each scene shoot in six hours per day, which I felt was a lot better. But I was told that's not near enough time and I need more time to get better performances and cinematography out of it, if that's true.

Brian Drysdale · February 23rd, 2020, 04:07 PM

A 16 hour day, should've been planned for 2 days, not one day. Everything deteriorates as the day runs on, so the quality can go through the floor.

I don't know why you keep asking if that's true. The time to shoot a scene can vary from half an hour to a number of days, depending one it's complexity

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 04:15 PM

Well it's just when I tried to split scene shoots into more than one day before, I could see differences in the lighting. So I thought if I do it all one day than would be better cause nothing about the location has changed, or nothing has to moved and then put back and risking a mis-match. But I will be sure to get a DP who can take care of that for next time. To be more precise, when it comes to dialogue driven scenes, I have been trying to knock get a page shot every 30 minutes to stay on track. But if that's not enough I could try to take more time with it.

Brian Drysdale · February 23rd, 2020, 05:53 PM

You still shoot over two days, The DP should be able to remember their lighting set up or leave the lights rigged at the location for working the next day. Being a 16 hour day, daylight won;t be a factor.

Given the inexperience of your actors and crew, you're probably not going to get the highest quality cinema shooting one page every 30 minutes. It risks just looking like daytime TV drama..

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 06:14 PM

Yes, that is why I was wanting to go for a different DP, and some different actors. A couple of the same actors I might be able to utilize, as long as I perhaps direct them differently.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 23rd, 2020, 09:09 PM

A friend told me recently that biggest mistake inexperience film makers like yourself make is that they try to emulate the big budget Hollywood films that they admire.

Because you don't have the skill, experience, budget, locations, actors, crew, and the proper equipment, you'll end up creating a poor quality facsimile. Look at the explosion of video on the internet, in particular Youtube. Sure there is a lot a junk out there but there is also a lot of good stuff. And when I say good I don't mean it's going to win an Oscar, it meets the goals that it sets out to accomplish (millions of people watch their videos). The one thing those successful content creators do is they play to their strengths. But you continue to try to do something you're not good at, write/direct/produce/film a feature movie. Movie making is a cut throat business, it's not for the weak of heart. Its evident to everyone, except yourself, that you're not cut out for this. You don't have anything that is needed to make a successful feature film. Throwing more money at it, spending more time planning out ever detail or hiring a better DP is not the answer, the whole enterprise is a fools errand.

Many people have repeatedly said similar things and you pause for a second say "ok" and keep doing the same as before.

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 09:57 PM

Oh okay, but was I trying try to emulate big budget Hollywood? I thought I was trying to keep it at a certain budget, and toning a lot down, compared to big budget Hollywood movies.

I also didn't think I was weak of heart, because people seem to think I'm too stubborn, and still want to do it anyway, so I thought I wasn't weak of heart at all, at least from how people seem to react towards me.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 23rd, 2020, 10:22 PM

Like I said everyone but you can see it.

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 10:23 PM

Oh okay well how am I trying to emulate big budget, Hollywood, or how I weak of heart?

Pete Cofrancesco · February 23rd, 2020, 10:34 PM

You’re trying to film a night scene and posted examples from a Clint Eastwood film. You neither have the equipment or knowledge to shoot such a scene.

Ryan Elder · February 23rd, 2020, 11:06 PM

I picked up on that scene, cause a lot of was shot in the dark with less lighting compared to other movies, so I thought it's probably cheaper to shoot in such a style. Perhaps I should be thinking of different night scenes in different movies then?

But since I do not have the equipment or knowledge to shoot such a scene, should I get a DP who has the equipment and knowledge then?

February 23rd, 2020, 02:35 PM	#226
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? By not letting the cast and crew get the best results possible within that's actually the available you are that "director from hell". They will feel let down by a director can't see their full potential and their efforts may come to nothing in the great scheme of things.

February 23rd, 2020, 02:53 PM	#227
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Getting done quickly and getting a great result is very different from getting done quickly when you should have done another take, and doing another take when there was no need is a waste of everybody's time. Every time you say "and again, please" is forgiven when the turns know they could have done better, and you recognised that. Saying "One more time please" when they know it's already gone off the boil, makes them tell everyone they can that you are one of 'those' directors. You have already details many times when people tell you things that are NOT how they really feel. Perhaps to not hurt your feelings, or perhaps just because you have driven them mad. Many directors are also actors, and vice versa. Two stick in my mind because they direct with an actor's eye, and the know when they've got the best it's going to go. I know one at the opposite end of the scale who does wonderful work, but drives his cast and crew around the bend. He doesn't believe anyone else and he doesn't take advice if he can avoid it. I often wonder how good his end products would be if he simply recognised the strengths of his contributors and let them run a little. He once got very angry with me because I didn't know he was going to over-run, and I should have told him. I told him that I didn't have second sight, and only knew when he said - "OK, let's do it again..."

February 23rd, 2020, 03:00 PM	#228
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay. Yes I will try to take more time then on future shoots without hopefully going over time. On my first short, one of the shoots took 16 hours, so I really want to avoid that if possible. But at the same time, want to bring out everyone's full potential therefore. I usually take suggestions that are given to me, and some of them have been quite good, and used them. The only suggestion I didn't take is one of the actors suggested I shoot a different alternate ending, but I felt that ending wouldn't work at all, plus it would cost more money what he wanted to do, that I just didn't want to budget, for ending I thought, didn't work. So I refused that suggestion, but I think that is the only one I refused. However, a lot of times people do not give suggestions, maybe because they feel like it's not their place? When I work under different directions, I don't give suggestions cause I feel like it's not place, if that's true.

February 23rd, 2020, 03:20 PM	#229
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Some people find it nearly impossible to shut up - especially when they know their idea is better, others just keep quiet, thinking it's not their place to comment. Context is everything. 16 hours for a shoot I hope, and not a shot! seriously though, 16 hours in one day is asking an awful lot from people.

February 23rd, 2020, 03:37 PM	#230
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yeah it was for a whole sequence, not just one shot. Yeah that's why I want to cut things down, and not have to shoot for so long and be able to get things done a lot quicker in comparison, and not go overbudget as well. My last three shoots where I was directing, I managed to do each scene shoot in six hours per day, which I felt was a lot better. But I was told that's not near enough time and I need more time to get better performances and cinematography out of it, if that's true.

February 23rd, 2020, 04:07 PM	#231
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? A 16 hour day, should've been planned for 2 days, not one day. Everything deteriorates as the day runs on, so the quality can go through the floor. I don't know why you keep asking if that's true. The time to shoot a scene can vary from half an hour to a number of days, depending one it's complexity

February 23rd, 2020, 04:15 PM	#232
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Well it's just when I tried to split scene shoots into more than one day before, I could see differences in the lighting. So I thought if I do it all one day than would be better cause nothing about the location has changed, or nothing has to moved and then put back and risking a mis-match. But I will be sure to get a DP who can take care of that for next time. To be more precise, when it comes to dialogue driven scenes, I have been trying to knock get a page shot every 30 minutes to stay on track. But if that's not enough I could try to take more time with it.

February 23rd, 2020, 05:53 PM	#233
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? You still shoot over two days, The DP should be able to remember their lighting set up or leave the lights rigged at the location for working the next day. Being a 16 hour day, daylight won;t be a factor. Given the inexperience of your actors and crew, you're probably not going to get the highest quality cinema shooting one page every 30 minutes. It risks just looking like daytime TV drama..

February 23rd, 2020, 06:14 PM	#234
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Yes, that is why I was wanting to go for a different DP, and some different actors. A couple of the same actors I might be able to utilize, as long as I perhaps direct them differently.

February 23rd, 2020, 09:09 PM	#235
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,996	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? A friend told me recently that biggest mistake inexperience film makers like yourself make is that they try to emulate the big budget Hollywood films that they admire. Because you don't have the skill, experience, budget, locations, actors, crew, and the proper equipment, you'll end up creating a poor quality facsimile. Look at the explosion of video on the internet, in particular Youtube. Sure there is a lot a junk out there but there is also a lot of good stuff. And when I say good I don't mean it's going to win an Oscar, it meets the goals that it sets out to accomplish (millions of people watch their videos). The one thing those successful content creators do is they play to their strengths. But you continue to try to do something you're not good at, write/direct/produce/film a feature movie. Movie making is a cut throat business, it's not for the weak of heart. Its evident to everyone, except yourself, that you're not cut out for this. You don't have anything that is needed to make a successful feature film. Throwing more money at it, spending more time planning out ever detail or hiring a better DP is not the answer, the whole enterprise is a fools errand. Many people have repeatedly said similar things and you pause for a second say "ok" and keep doing the same as before. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; February 23rd, 2020 at 09:41 PM.

February 23rd, 2020, 09:57 PM	#236
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay, but was I trying try to emulate big budget Hollywood? I thought I was trying to keep it at a certain budget, and toning a lot down, compared to big budget Hollywood movies. I also didn't think I was weak of heart, because people seem to think I'm too stubborn, and still want to do it anyway, so I thought I wasn't weak of heart at all, at least from how people seem to react towards me.

February 23rd, 2020, 10:22 PM	#237
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,996	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Like I said everyone but you can see it.

February 23rd, 2020, 10:23 PM	#238
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? Oh okay well how am I trying to emulate big budget, Hollywood, or how I weak of heart?

February 23rd, 2020, 10:34 PM	#239
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,996	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? You’re trying to film a night scene and posted examples from a Clint Eastwood film. You neither have the equipment or knowledge to shoot such a scene.

February 23rd, 2020, 11:06 PM	#240
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading? I picked up on that scene, cause a lot of was shot in the dark with less lighting compared to other movies, so I thought it's probably cheaper to shoot in such a style. Perhaps I should be thinking of different night scenes in different movies then? But since I do not have the equipment or knowledge to shoot such a scene, should I get a DP who has the equipment and knowledge then?