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Old February 22nd, 2020, 02:53 AM   #181
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

If you google any product you will easily find it's target market. In fact, I find google image search the most revealing. One product I thought might work for me in a project I had not realised was really targeted at the DJ market. This rang the warning bells, and the 'reason' for some features jumped out. It also set a frame for reviews and youtube videos. Some comments I had read and thought supported my interest were then discounted because of the bias of the user base - which is important for the manufacturers.

I was quite dismayed over christmas to discover the camera hired in for one purpose - audience shots, was simply dreadful at this particular role. I hate the term fly by wire, but it had a servo lens. The person operating it was an actor. An actor with no interest or ability in camera work. Manual focus went wrong day one, test one. nothing but a mushy blur of an image. The autofocus was quick and accurate, UNTIL faced with looking out at the audience, where instead of faces, it would focus on the wall lamp behind, or worse, a showlight where it would try to focus on the bright spot. The camera was an EX3 a perfectly capable and well thought of camera - just being used on the wrong thing.

Your research for lenses needs to look for VIDEO designed lenses, not photographic ones. If you ever get budget for a focus puller, and frankly I suspect your budgets would spend money elsewhere before this role, then they would probably not take the job with incapable equipment. You seem to forget that professionals NEED certain facilities to do their jobs properly. I'm not ever going to market myself as a DoP for the movie industry because I do NOT have that skill set - but I do work in TV studios. I can do a good job with a proper industry standard camera and what they sit on. I've been asked to do work for a production where despite having a 15m wide LED screen as backdrop, their cameras are point and mix. Zoomed in on a performer, the manfrotto 400 series head is incapable of smooth panning. I will not use this kit - just the wrong stuff and I cannot produce good images with it.

Why not start a new topic? What lens should I buy? List the camera, and detail what you need the lens to do - AND - detail the budget. People avoid your huge rambling topics as theyve run too long. So ask the question, set the parameters and never start a response saying "OK thanks but ........"

People will suggest solutions. Take in their responses and consider them. Ask questions based on their responses and do NOT, ever, say "but I have been told......". People would not suggest things to be told their opinion is wrong based on your collection of friends who probably meant well, but knowing you, tried to explain things in your way, and you misunderstood.

I cannot recommend a lens for your intended BMC purchase, but if you simply ask a question, take in the responses, and resist the temptation to do your usual thing - the topic will bloom, discuss and then die - and let it. Do not confuse the people who respond like you usually do. Ask, listen, digest - let it die!
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 02:59 AM   #182
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

You want enough lighting levels to ensure that your focus puller has enough DOF to avoid having focusing issues. I would call f1.4 lens as fast, f2 to f2.8 as pretty standard for a prime and f2.8 for a zoom. F2.8 is pretty common shooting stop, but you don't want to stop down further than f5.6 , Day exteriors can be different, but f8 is pretty good. Unless you've got expensive lenses the f1.4 lenses are best used stopped down one or two stops.

For a drama an ISO of 400 to 800 should be roughly what you should be aiming for.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 PM   #183
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson View Post
If you google any product you will easily find it's target market. In fact, I find google image search the most revealing. One product I thought might work for me in a project I had not realised was really targeted at the DJ market. This rang the warning bells, and the 'reason' for some features jumped out. It also set a frame for reviews and youtube videos. Some comments I had read and thought supported my interest were then discounted because of the bias of the user base - which is important for the manufacturers.

I was quite dismayed over christmas to discover the camera hired in for one purpose - audience shots, was simply dreadful at this particular role. I hate the term fly by wire, but it had a servo lens. The person operating it was an actor. An actor with no interest or ability in camera work. Manual focus went wrong day one, test one. nothing but a mushy blur of an image. The autofocus was quick and accurate, UNTIL faced with looking out at the audience, where instead of faces, it would focus on the wall lamp behind, or worse, a showlight where it would try to focus on the bright spot. The camera was an EX3 a perfectly capable and well thought of camera - just being used on the wrong thing.

Your research for lenses needs to look for VIDEO designed lenses, not photographic ones. If you ever get budget for a focus puller, and frankly I suspect your budgets would spend money elsewhere before this role, then they would probably not take the job with incapable equipment. You seem to forget that professionals NEED certain facilities to do their jobs properly. I'm not ever going to market myself as a DoP for the movie industry because I do NOT have that skill set - but I do work in TV studios. I can do a good job with a proper industry standard camera and what they sit on. I've been asked to do work for a production where despite having a 15m wide LED screen as backdrop, their cameras are point and mix. Zoomed in on a performer, the manfrotto 400 series head is incapable of smooth panning. I will not use this kit - just the wrong stuff and I cannot produce good images with it.

Why not start a new topic? What lens should I buy? List the camera, and detail what you need the lens to do - AND - detail the budget. People avoid your huge rambling topics as theyve run too long. So ask the question, set the parameters and never start a response saying "OK thanks but ........"

People will suggest solutions. Take in their responses and consider them. Ask questions based on their responses and do NOT, ever, say "but I have been told......". People would not suggest things to be told their opinion is wrong based on your collection of friends who probably meant well, but knowing you, tried to explain things in your way, and you misunderstood.

I cannot recommend a lens for your intended BMC purchase, but if you simply ask a question, take in the responses, and resist the temptation to do your usual thing - the topic will bloom, discuss and then die - and let it. Do not confuse the people who respond like you usually do. Ask, listen, digest - let it die!
Oh okay thanks. I wasn't trying to start a new topic, I was just using the lens as an example of how a hidden catch can be missed by me before, and how I wanted to try to avoid those in buying a new camera. When I say I want to discuss certain things about the suggestion, I don't mean any disrespect by doing that. It's just that if something is suggested to me, and I notice a hidden catch or an inconsistency in the suggestion, than I feel I have to ask about it, and address the details of it. Is that really bad of me to want to address those points in the suggestion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
You want enough lighting levels to ensure that your focus puller has enough DOF to avoid having focusing issues. I would call f1.4 lens as fast, f2 to f2.8 as pretty standard for a prime and f2.8 for a zoom. F2.8 is pretty common shooting stop, but you don't want to stop down further than f5.6 , Day exteriors can be different, but f8 is pretty good. Unless you've got expensive lenses the f1.4 lenses are best used stopped down one or two stops.

For a drama an ISO of 400 to 800 should be roughly what you should be aiming for.
Oh okay, but if I want to have a deeper DOF, such as around f5.6, than I will need brighter lights if I shoot at night, if I am to keep the ISO at 800. What I could do is get a bunch of 1000 watt work lights and use those, however, if I need a generator to power them, I am worried about having to do ADR, since the generators will make the dialogue unusable probably. I think what we will have to do is, is shoot it in the style of a movie like Dirty Harry, and leave a lot of the scenes dark. But even at ISO 800, there is still noise in the dark spots. Will that be a problem?
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 01:06 PM   #184
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Ryan the reason we suggest getting your own equipment is that you could answer most of your own questions yourself. Instead you sit at home watching movies and ask people on a forum how to film your movie . We’ve covered this over and over, you learn by doing.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 01:13 PM   #185
also known as Ryan Wray
 
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh well, I am just worried I will not buy the right camera, until I know some thing about it first. Shouldn't the filmmaker know what camera is right for them before they buy? It's just in the past, if I buy, and then answer the question myself, and the equipment does not suit my needs, then I get to re-sell it and take a hit then.

There is also another thing. If I shoot while leaving certain aspects of the scene unlit, like in Dirty Harry, in the Dirty Harry clips there doesn't seem to be any noise, in the unlit parts of the scene. But in my camera, there is noise in the unlit parts even at ISO 800. Is there something they are doing differently?
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 01:58 PM   #186
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

We just cannot make you understand Ryan.

You do not have the means to light at night. Its incredibly expensive to do right, and work lights just don't have the optics to throw light very far - they're work lights, and look terrible. The Dirty Harry thing uses contrast. The vast proportion of the frame is black, with hardly any detail. Up the thread you were told that the original, in the cinema had more detail, but the compression on videos on Vimeo and youtube tends to remove that detail.

You could probably light it with a car headlight - you'd get that stark but punchy light. It would also be silent.

Film makers do know what camera is right for them. I have NEVER bought a camera and been surprised by it. You don't have the courage to do this, or maybe the ability to read and understand specs. We've also suggested buying from a dealer who does returns - yet you persist in asking quite entry level questions. even worse, your 'technical' questions seem to use baselines plucked out of thin air. We cannot tell you how to shoot your movie - we are not clairvoyant!
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 02:15 PM   #187
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Alright well I will look at some cameras and pick one then, unless the DP of course will have a camera that can suit the night shooting better. As for night shooting, should I just get a DP and ask him what do about it then, since I don't want to change the scenes, cause that can make the script hold together less?

The thing about car headlights, is we would have to remove them from the car to get them at better angles. Is this possible, but still power the lights? Unless we leave the lights inside the cars, and it will still look good from a car level angle? I am also worried about noise in the dark areas that is not lit and wonder if that noise will be acceptable, even at ISO 800 there is noise in my current camera so far, in unlit areas at night.

But do you think maybe I am too worried, and trying to be the DP too much, and should just direct, and get a DP to do all this, and not worry so much perhaps?
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 02:49 PM   #188
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

I give up, honestly I do.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 03:00 PM   #189
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Sorry I will implement the headlights and try to worry about it then, if that's best.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 05:12 PM   #190
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Hire theatre lights if you can't get film ones.

You can now get LED film or video lights that run off a battery,

At 800 ISO, you're probably talking about 2k lights for a reasonable area.

You can ADR the dialogue if the generator is too noisy, although they are better than they used to be. You'll need more than a small Honda for lighting.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 05:19 PM   #191
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Yeah for sure, if I use cars, I would need quite a few. I can try that then. However, in my camera, if I try to have contrast such as only light certain parts of the location and leave the rest dark, like in Dirty Harry, there is still noise in the dark areas, even at ISO 800. It seems that how it is on my camera, the dark areas will still have noise, compared to the lit area in a scene.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 05:51 PM   #192
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

I thought you were buying a new camera, so what have the noise levels in your current camera got to do with those in possible new cameras?
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 06:47 PM   #193
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

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Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
I thought you were buying a new camera, so what have the noise levels in your current camera got to do with those in possible new cameras?
I've gradually been coming to the opinion he doesn't have the funds to buy a camera (actually anything). I'm not saying this to bash him but I feel like people here are under a mistaken impression he might buy something. From what I understand he is creating a wish list for this script and if he ever got funding he would hire everyone. The likely hood of this happening could be very low.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 06:47 PM   #194
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

Oh I just meant that I hope the noise is not the same in the new camera, that's all. I am also wondering if I should just allow the DP to use their camera instead as well. But I do the funds to get one.
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Old February 22nd, 2020, 07:07 PM   #195
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Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
Oh I just meant that I hope the noise is not the same in the new camera, that's all. I am also wondering if I should just allow the DP to use their camera instead as well. But I do the funds to get one.
So what camera are you getting? When do you plan to buy it? How much money do have to spend on the camera?
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