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Old July 11th, 2020, 02:13 PM   #16
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Re: Convert old home movies

I know this is an old thread, but so is 8mm.

When recording 8mm using the frame-by-frame method (such as with the Wolverine scanner), each frame when recorded digitally and then viewed becomes "jumpy".

So, the big QUESTION: Is there any way to smooth the jumps out? While it isn't a lot, it is enough to be annoying, especially given the smooth video we all watch every day.

I'm using FCP X and Motion (which might be useful). There a way to smooth, more-or-less, a shaky hand-held shot in post but I don't have any way to test that feature out in a frame-by-frame scenario. Also, there may be another application that has the capability that I don't know about.

For what it's worth, my current list of project include archiving and editing old family Standard and Super 8mm film, 35mm slides and negatives but also some 120 and 4 x 5 negs, and older pictures going back to the mid/late 1800s. The plan is to digitally archive this material then use it to make family documentaries and biographies. These are basically winter projects as time allows. Just finished mowing the lawn and rain will be here shortly so stuck indoors. Have to plan ahead.

Edit: See Pete Cofrancesco's post #14 for jumpy video example starting at 20:31

Last edited by John Nantz; July 11th, 2020 at 05:52 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2020, 04:34 AM   #17
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Re: Convert old home movies

I have a friend who copies film for her own use and loves to collect and repair projectors as a hobby. This is one of her workprinters in action.
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Old July 12th, 2020, 01:33 PM   #18
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Re: Convert old home movies

Wow thanks for sharing.
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Old July 13th, 2020, 12:55 AM   #19
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Re: Convert old home movies

Pretty sure I heard her mention that she puts a lower wattage bulb in so not to melt the film as it runs slower than normal.
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Old July 14th, 2020, 11:23 AM   #20
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Re: Convert old home movies

Came across this link for a "home brewed" film copier made partially by using 3D technology.
"T-Scann - 8 Super/Regular 8 scanner" by Tonrulf Holmström who is in Sweden. At the very end he has some examples of film that was copied with his machine (at 3:23) and there is almost no flicker present.
Almost everything is 3D printed. Controlled by Arduino and Raspberry Pi and stepper motors.

Another thing he came up with was a way to help remove debris from the film which really cleaned it up. Don't know what happens with the debris after it is removed. Normally, the debris shows up as flickers of specks but his conversion looks really good.

He wrote that he was going to post how to make one but so far he hasn't.
Besides a super nice technical device, his YouTube presentation is also well done with a combination of video, titles, and audio.

Did a search for the new Raspberry Pi module update that was mentioned in one of the posts and it is really cheap.
New Raspberry Pi module v2-8 8-megapixel Sony camera, 1080p
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/camera-module-v2/ uses a Sony IMX219 8-megapixel sensor (compared to the 5-megapixel OmniVision OV5647 sensor of the original camera). $25.54 on eBay
That's just the scanning camera.
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Old July 14th, 2020, 05:50 PM   #21
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Re: Convert old home movies

Comments on the video at YouTube indicate he's redesigning the film gate and will then release 3D files for the pieces. Also found this video on YouTube, and somewhat amazed with the sort of insanely damaged film (see at 3:01) they could still recover..


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Old July 19th, 2020, 11:27 AM   #22
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Re: Convert old home movies

With Pages, “iBooks Author” has recently been added to the Pages application. Now, one can create documents where image galleries, drawings, audio, and video (did I write “video”?) can be added to your book. This opens up a whole new field of potential uses, one which would be, or at least have the potential to be, perfect for writing a family history, biography, or documentation of a special event.

The archiving via digital of old 8mm home movies is one thing, but how to make them easily accessible and user-friendly is another. Enter the update of “Pages” with iBooks Author and there is the opportunity to write something that can include the digitized copy of the movie. If pictures were taken, especially when the negatives are still available, they can also be added to the narration in the book. Additionally, any audio recordings can also be included, with the whole thing forming a wonderful family history.

Although I mentioned family history and biography applications, there are certainly options for current use such as training documents with videos, operation and maintenance documents with videos, current day event documentaries, etcetera.
Link to details about iBooks Author in Pages: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211136
This opens up a whole new world of possibilities, like an upgrade to the old photo album.

Edit: I'm Still trying to optimize working with VueScan for copying 35mm slides and negatives via a Nikon CoolScan V (LS-50). Current problems are with selecting settings for Kodak films and slides. Looking forward to giving Pages and iBooks Author a try to see how it works but probably not for a few months due to work backlog (which doesn't seem to go away). If it isn't one thing, it's another. So much to learn and do, so little time.

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Old July 22nd, 2020, 09:09 PM   #23
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Re: Convert old home movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nantz View Post
I know this is an old thread, but so is 8mm.

When recording 8mm using the frame-by-frame method (such as with the Wolverine scanner), each frame when recorded digitally and then viewed becomes "jumpy".
I just found this thread, and this is a project I've been putting off for a few years, so I'm quite interested (especially as I was a 35mm projectionist for a number of years).

John, I'm curious what you mean by "jumpy." 8mm silent films were shot at 16 FPS. Most cameras had a 50% shutter, so exposure time of each frame was ~ 1/32 second (with the next 1/32 sec. of action not being photographed, while the film was pulled down to the next frame). If there was any significantly fast action, each frame would have some motion blur because of the slow shutter speed.

Silent projectors typically had a 3-blade shutter, making one revolution per frame. At 16 FPS, there would be 48 flashes of light per second, with 48 black intervals between. Each light interval, or dark interval, was thus 1/96 second. (With a 2-blade shutter, you'd have seen only 32 light flashes per second, and you'd have perceived flicker, especially brighter parts of the image.)

Each frame would be flashed on the screen three times in succession, then the film would be pulled down (during a 1/96 second dark interval) and then the process repeated with the next frame.

Given persistence of vision, you'd "see" a given frame for 1/16 second, then you'd see the next one, etc. If you transfer the film frames to video frames, you should still see 16 frames per second. So I'm wondering what makes that look "jumpy" to you. Is it the fact that you don't have 1/96 sec of black between frame #(n) and frame #(n+1) ... so your brain would perform a bit of a cross-fade?

Or do you mean that the image position is vertically unstable on the screen (as opposed to horizontally unstable, called "weave")? That might be a function of registration in the original camera, or film handling in the transfer device, or sprocket hole wear. I strongly suspect there is commercial electronic image stabilization software to fix that (given the huge number of ancient films now on TV), but unfortunately I can't name any (and it's probably pricey). There may well be some less expensive consumer-level stuff. I would definitely search that terminology, or maybe EIS.

Can you please clarify which is bothering you ... some variant of flicker?, or vertical image jump?

Thanks!

Last edited by Greg Miller; July 22nd, 2020 at 10:28 PM.
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 02:56 AM   #24
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Re: Convert old home movies

Think I will be looking for an old XP computer so I can dig out my 35mm film scanner and a big flatbed scanner that will scan those very old large negatives (forgot the size, but around 4x 35mm) not forgetting my AVD firewire av capture box. None of which I can get to run on my daily computer. In the past when I have upgraded I would transplant some things from the old computer to the new. Then after a year or so would chuck the old carcus forgetting I might need it one day.
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Old July 23rd, 2020, 03:07 AM   #25
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Re: Convert old home movies

Might be worth looking at VirtualBox and similar virtualisation software from which you can install a Windows XP instance within. If your scanner is connected via USB, then you can direct link the two and get the best of both worlds.

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Old July 23rd, 2020, 08:31 AM   #26
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Re: Convert old home movies

I have a number of old XP laptops that I'm not using. Unfortunately I fear the cost of shipping one across the big lake would be prohibitive. Personally I still prefer the XP/7 GUI and system structure to the newer hand-based systems. But today's hardware performance is so much better ...
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Old July 25th, 2020, 05:39 AM   #27
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Re: Convert old home movies

Hi Donald
There may be a driver for your scanner in the VueScan software that makes your scanner compatible with a newer OS. www.hamrick.com

Hi John
Try adding another track of the same video in FCPX at around 30% opacity and one frame later than the main track. See if this gives the result you are after.

Cheers
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Old July 26th, 2020, 07:48 AM   #28
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Re: Convert old home movies

Have not tried it yet. But I came across this. How I Installed the 2003 Konica Minolta DiMAGE Scan Dual IV 35mm Film Scanner in Windows 10 – Thoughts
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