Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay for sure. I understand how you can't make the movie you want to make and you are forced to make decisions because of budget. Howver, how does a filmmaker get the audience to accept the limitations?

In my experience, the audience is actually much less forgiving of the limitations than the filmmaker, so how do you sell the audience then on the shortcomings? I can live with not getting what I want, but how do you get the audience to accept it?

[Brian Drysdale]

You make the film so that they don't appear to be limitations. In that short film there's a scene where a solder is picked up by a military helicopter, but we didn't have a helicopter, so we faked it. This was relatively easy because it was night, but it still cost an investment in building a section of the helicopter door and hiring a cherry picker. With the sound effects, this sold it to the audience.

It becomes easier if the audience has emotionally invested in the characters, If they're not, they've only got your flaws to look at. Also, don't put more production values than you can reasonably access or create on your budget.

The skill and talent is being able to create that emotional engagement, there's no easy answer. You're making the film for the audience, so you need to be focused on if you would accept what's on screen if you were a disinterested audience member.

[Paul R Johnson]

For interest maybe - I recorded this with a handicam, very unofficially in my Anglia Television days when shooting an episode of a popular drama - shot on real film! The scene was supposed to be a house on a beach in a big storm and the people in it were rescued by helicopter. The house was built in a dry dock and then the sluice gates were opened letting in the water - the windows were blown in with buckets of water and the helicopter was a cable from crane and the helicopter just briefly seen in the edit. The problems here were huge, ignoring the safety ones. The actors and crew had to wear wet suits - so we had safety boats and first aid people - the cameras needed waterproofing, and one actor's wig needed gluing on with waterproof glue. One chance to get it right, and shooting in the middle of the night!

80s Anglia TV Location Shoot - PD James on Vimeo

[Brian Drysdale]

From the days when regional ITV companies made programmes for the network. They also did natural history with "Survival" for many years.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

You make the film so that they don't appear to be limitations. In that short film there's a scene where a solder is picked up by a military helicopter, but we didn't have a helicopter, so we faked it. This was relatively easy because it was night, but it still cost an investment in building a section of the helicopter door and hiring a cherry picker. With the sound effects, this sold it to the audience.

It becomes easier if the audience has emotionally invested in the characters, If they're not, they've only got your flaws to look at. Also, don't put more production values than you can reasonably access or create on your budget.

The skill and talent is being able to create that emotional engagement, there's no easy answer. You're making the film for the audience, so you need to be focused on if you would accept what's on screen if you were a disinterested audience member.

Oh okay. Well one example is I have a scene where a truck is flipped over. I suppose I could use a 3D model for the flip, but I want two passengers to actually get out, after the truck is flipped on it's side. I could shoot it so a real truck is not actually flipped, but I shoot it with a green screen in the background and the actors are climbing out of a truck that is not actually flipped. Then we make it look flipped on it's side after the green screen is removed and thus making the actors look like they climbed out of a flipped truck, rather than one that was right side up the the whole time.

But would a green screen sell it? I could ask some other special FX experts if it can be pulled off perhaps.

Or like before when I wanted to do a crash zoom and it was recommended to me on here, that I just move the camera and do a speed ramp in post, instead to make the movement faster. If I do that though, I am worried that the audience will think this means I am speeding ahead in time, and that they will misread this. Will the audience missread it as speeding in time?

[Brian Drysdale]

For a very low budget film you seem to be pushing the boat out, plus trying to do something that requires extremely high skill levels to pull off convincingly with CGI..

I worked on a short film that had a crashed car, they borrowed a car that had been in an accident from a scrap merchant and used that.

For the flip show the occupants during this action and let the camera do the flip and cut to the the vehicle from the scrap yard on its side or roof. Of course, it has to match the action vehicle, but don't get too obsessive about it being a Mack or a some other large vehicle. They tend not to roll or flip unless going off the road down an embankment.

Editing allows you to cheat and the audience accepts it with the gratification of seeing the money shot of a real vehicle on its side.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I don't have to have it of course but it would be nice if I could. What if I showed the vehicle flip completely from the inside of the vehicle, without showing any flip on the outside much.

This scene in this movie shows the plane crash from the POV through the windshield, at 5:10 into the clip:

United 93 - Passengers revolt - Crash scene - YouTube

But would that work the same way for a truck, especially if we have seen the outside of it in previous shots, as well as wanting to show the passengers climb out, quickly afterwards?

[Brian Drysdale]

There are loads of ways to cheat things.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. It's just whenever I don't show something and just imply it more so, I get worried. There was that short film I posted on here, before where in the editing, I decided not to show an actress leave the room, because I felt that the audience could figure out that she left the room without actually having to show her go out the door.

But then when I posted it on here, some of the comments asked where did she go... So I wonder if the audience needs to see that, imagine what else they need to see in a lot of cases, to follow along. So I am not sure what can be implied without the audience becoming confused.

[Brian Drysdale]

You'll be showing the action as it happens, but you're looking at the occupants at certain points and their reactions. That's not the same as having a women disappear for no apparent reason.

[Rainer Listing]

Yep, show the inside, roll (in this case rotate) the camera, not the vehicle. Ryan, if you could get hold of a copy of Stu Maschwitz's "The DV Rebel's Guide: An All-Digital Approach to Making Killer Action Movies on the Cheap" I think that would be helpful..

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, thanks, I can check it out. Will the idea of having the actors get out of the car, while the car is right side up, but then trying to make it look flipped on it's side, with a green screen behind it, work do you think?

[Paul R Johnson]

This is where you really are going to have to test it out in a practical and then see if it works. You're going to have to get creative. Turning the camera doesn't turn gravity, so all the loose items won't drop, people's long hair won't go the wrong way unless you turn the set. You need to experiment.

[Brian Drysdale]

Gravity may work against you. The occupants will have difficulty getting out sideways, while tying to look like they're trying to to climb out vertically. You'd need to rig a support system if they're going to get more than a head out.

The vehicle doors usually dom';t stay open, so the occupants need to pretend that they're holding them open as they get out. Although, if the door windows are large enough they could use those to get out, but the gravity issue still applies.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

All his topics revolve around the same question... How does one make a successful feature movie without basic funding, competent acting, decent script, director skills/experience/aptitude...