New Pana NV-GS1000K

John Schaefer · July 14th, 2003, 09:48 AM

The only special DV tape I've been able to track down from JVC is a supposed "Professional Grade" product that's described as being of top quality and is implied to offer additional ruggedness and reliability. Here's the announcement press release from this year's NAB show:

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/p...&feature_id=08

It definitely does not seem as if it provides wider bandwidth than standard DV tape.

The reason for offering/using an Extended Definition tape, with wider bandwidth, presumably would be to permit a camcorder to operate in a mode wherein it would capture and record higher-resolution, higher-data-rate signals than can be recorded onto ordinary DV tape without lossy compression. As far as I know, the JVC consumer and semi-pro HD cams have no need for wider bandwidth than standard DV, because they have no capability to record wideband signals in uncompressed form.

On the other hand, an evolution of a camera like Digicam 100 or AG-DVX100 could be designed to capture and record signals in uncompressed form that are too wideband for conventional DV tape, but would be practical on an Extended Definition tape. It's conceivable that the present Digicam 100 chassis has such a capability, not revealed in its menus unless the camera detects the presence of a suitable wideband tape-type, and ready to be enabled for a later prosumer version. That's speculation, of course.

Eng Yew Lee · July 14th, 2003, 12:27 PM

I just purchased my GS100K from PriceJapan. Ordered it on Tuesday and recieved it on Friday. Very fast.

Took some test shots, plugged it into my Mac and captured anamorphic footage into FCP. Initial look at Cinema Pro video on FCP looks very good! The gamma seems to be compressed so that the whites are at the 70% in the Waveform monitor. Footage looks a lot more defined than my old camcorder.

The menus are all Japanese - which I can't read! However the GS70 manual is very helpful. I don't expected to use the SD card funtions to take photographs, set it up as a webcam or to take MPEG 4 movies so I did not bother to figure out the menus for those functions.

I managed to figure out how to set date and time, turn off the annoying sounds, turn off the recording indicator, switch the camcorder into progressive mode (you see a square boxed 'P' on the LCD) and get it into Cinema Pro mode, and the low light functions. Enough for me!

What I can't figure out is what *all* the buttons on the inside of the LCD do? Can one adjust the shutter speed in manual mode? Can I use the built-in flash for movies or is it just for photos?

What I don't like: All the manual functions (White Balance, Exposure, Focus) are on the outside on the camcorder lens which is prone to being accidentally touched. Especially the manual focus ring. There is no lock for it. The low light, MagicPix and 0 Lux, functions are useless as any movement in the footage becomes blurry (however, the normal mode seems to capture the inside of my house at night pretty well).

I have more discovery and experimenting to do. If anyone is doing an English translation cheat sheet - I'll be happy to participate! Glad I bought the camera!

P.S. It always amazes me how prevalent English is. Even in a pure Japanese product there is English, and all numerals are Roman.

P.P.S Oh! And thanks to Patricia for her comments on this board. It made the difference.

Marius Burz · July 14th, 2003, 01:35 PM

Hi Eng...

From where did you get your GS70 manual? Is it in electronic format?

I am also looking for a manual(even in Japanese) for the GS100 but I need it in electronic format, so I will be able to use some online dictionary. Any idea where I could find one?

The cam is on the way to me, so in 2 days I'll play with the babe(I hope...).

Rick Tugman · July 14th, 2003, 01:45 PM

Hello Eng:

Nice to hear about your GS100 - You give this a little hope when you say you have been able to get through certain menus and that some english is prevalent. I'm also happy to hear that it works so well with you Mac and Final Cut Pro. I have Final Cut v.3 and I'm beginning to get into it but will have get more experience once I decide on a camera.

If you've been reading the forum here, you have probably read that I have been on the fence about the GS100 because of the Japanese menus. I would want the camera for some of the other functions and wonder how difficult you think to access those features for web cam and mpeg movies.

When you have a chance to experiment a little more please let us have your thoughts on the ease of use and your interelation with the Japanese menus and how what we may expect if we go the same route.

Thanks... Rick.

Patricia Kim · July 14th, 2003, 02:21 PM

Marius, for manuals, try the Panasonic web sites. GS-70 manual is available on the US web site in the support/downloads section. Can't say for sure re Japanese manual, though, since I haven't looked for it.

Eng Yew Lee · July 14th, 2003, 02:44 PM

I downloaded the GS70 manual from the Panasonic USA website.

I actually found the GS100K on-screen menus to be almost identical to the GS70 (with minor deviations to the MX5000). Going down the sub-menus you will find almost identical menu options.

The key thing is to recognize the words "Auto", "Yes" and "No" in Japanese which is easy to do because the first GS100K sub-menu (which is almost identical to the GS70) has those three Japanese characters and it is easy.

Other things are easy: Web is spelled "WEB" , MPEG-4 is spelled "MPEG-4". The AE modes and White Balance modes are all icons - challenging both English and Japanese people. Shutter speed is "1/60" etc. "WB" is white balance, "MNL" is manual, and "MF" is, of course. manual focus.

Like I said, the Japanese have so much English mixed in, it is a different culture.

I have not fiddled around enough to create a definitive cheat sheet but I am sure it can be done easily and with only a little help from a Japanese reader.

More later.

Bogdan Vaglarov · July 14th, 2003, 11:19 PM

Hi everyone,

Wonder if somebody noticed that the camera data was taken way from GS100. In the MX5000 menu there is option you can activate or disable collection of the shooting paramenters (Shutter speed, gain value, white balance setting, iris value).

In comparison table in Japanese Pana catalog it's written also that the skin ditter mode is gone too. From previous post I learned it might be same as the skin detail button.

Now does that mean that the camera data is recorded by default (without having to chose yes or no)? People who own GS100 can you recal this data while playing back (using the remote for example).

If not, does that mean we don't have saved this data on the tape? If so it's terrible for a model so high in the consumer line (but not really pro-sumer).

Another thing is the input/output issue. Now we don't have the dedicated mic input as on MX5000. Well it's plug in power but shared with the wire remote. When is most likly to use mic? When having the cam on a tripod and using the remote.
MX had its headphone out shared with the remote so you could not eventualy monitor the sound while using this remote. As there is no lanc conector on both cams I think this is really frustraiting.

I don't want anybody to understand me wrong because in fact I'm going to buy GS100 very soon. Just want to hear from other people their opinion.

Other weak point is the low resolution viewfinder. If all above issues were solved I would pay extra 200 $ for that cam. Still it would be cheaper than TRV950 or other closer to the prosumer level cams.

Obviously Pana decided to chase the mass market and cut off essential functions to save few pennies.

John Schaefer · July 15th, 2003, 08:32 AM

Bogdan, my guess is that eventually Pana will offer a prosumer version of the camera with a higher-res viewfinder, possibly some sound connectivity changes, and whatever other minor setup changes and accessory-package inclusions the prosumer will be willing to pay for. Sony did so with the PD150/VX2000, and JVC with the JY-HD10/GR-HD1. I would think that a similar move would be obvious to Pana as well, because there are probably many people like yourself who would be willing to pay $200 more to get a few features improved.

Allan Rejoso · July 15th, 2003, 09:18 AM

Bogdan,

Camera data is automatically recorded by default. However, the user has the option to display or not the data during playback. That option is in the playback menu.

I guess Pany want us to buy the new hot shoe compatible mic.

I guess Pany think that most users of the GS100 would be using the LCD most of the time rather than the VF.

Regards

Michael Struthers · July 15th, 2003, 09:36 AM

C'MON GUYS. I hear lots of banter, but how does the 30fps look? In 16 x 9? Is this the same chipset as in the dvx100? They must have "neutered" it somehow...worse in low light?

Can you only use the panasonic additional microphone or does the hot shoe accept an azden, sennheiser, etc etc?

Some one post some grabs! ;-)

close to pushing the "buy" button...

Michael

Yow Cheong Hoe · July 15th, 2003, 10:34 AM

Bogdan, I guess it is OK to 'complain' or 'bash' a camera if the facts are presented correctly. And it is not 'hypocritical' to bash a camera and buy it. There is no perfect camera out there and each has its own strengths and weakneses. The joy of a forum like this is to be able to discuss the pros and cons openly, so that we can all know of the benefits and drawbacks of each model, before we commit to a purchhase, or to use a camera better.

For the record, yet again, I chose the older MX350 over the MX500. I still find the MX500 not up to my expectations and taste as compared to the MX350. But the MX500 is a good camera. When my MX350 dies and I need a replacement immediately, it could well be the MX500. The fact that I have not been barred or kicked from this forum, even with my incessant complains of the MX500 (almost unfairly!) shows that open discussion based on facts is well accepted here!

This is out-of-topic and I apologise for that.

Eng Yew Lee · July 15th, 2003, 05:29 PM

FYI. Masaki-san has posted the English translation for the GS-100K menus on the MX5000 Yahoo group a few minutes ago.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MX5000/files/GS100Menu.zip

Masaki Kuraoka · July 15th, 2003, 05:39 PM

Hello Mr. Lee

I am sorry that it is not PDF files. Can someone convert to PDF for everyone who need them?

Well, I don't have GS100K so, I don't need it :-P

Anyway, This thread is toooooooo loooooooong..........

Mike de la Fuente · July 15th, 2003, 07:01 PM

PDF of translations

Bogdan Vaglarov · July 15th, 2003, 07:19 PM

Thanks to all who replayed to my worries.
Well, sorry for entering with the negative side, I just thought there is no need to repeat the good things which are much more.

Allan, I feel relieved that the data can be replayed. Thanks for all the presice information you are giving us.

Other wise I also wish better inegration on the border of consumer and pro. Or at least to be given the choice wich way to go Yow! I think it's fair to complain about this. Even consumer models of Sony have separate mic, headphone, lanc conectors. They also sell proprietary hot shoe mics but you can chose not to buy such and go with other brand. Not with this lovely Pana though. I have to go with their gun mic.

Cheers,
Bogdan

July 14th, 2003, 01:45 PM	#94
Rick Tugman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Parkland, Florida Posts: 105	Hello Eng: Nice to hear about your GS100 - You give this a little hope when you say you have been able to get through certain menus and that some english is prevalent. I'm also happy to hear that it works so well with you Mac and Final Cut Pro. I have Final Cut v.3 and I'm beginning to get into it but will have get more experience once I decide on a camera. If you've been reading the forum here, you have probably read that I have been on the fence about the GS100 because of the Japanese menus. I would want the camera for some of the other functions and wonder how difficult you think to access those features for web cam and mpeg movies. When you have a chance to experiment a little more please let us have your thoughts on the ease of use and your interelation with the Japanese menus and how what we may expect if we go the same route. Thanks... Rick. __________________ Camera: Panasonic DV953 PC: Apple Aluminum G4 Powerbook - 15 inch Final Cut Pro 4 and other assorted goodies!

July 14th, 2003, 11:19 PM	#97
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Taken away from GS100 Hi everyone, Wonder if somebody noticed that the camera data was taken way from GS100. In the MX5000 menu there is option you can activate or disable collection of the shooting paramenters (Shutter speed, gain value, white balance setting, iris value). In comparison table in Japanese Pana catalog it's written also that the skin ditter mode is gone too. From previous post I learned it might be same as the skin detail button. Now does that mean that the camera data is recorded by default (without having to chose yes or no)? People who own GS100 can you recal this data while playing back (using the remote for example). If not, does that mean we don't have saved this data on the tape? If so it's terrible for a model so high in the consumer line (but not really pro-sumer). Another thing is the input/output issue. Now we don't have the dedicated mic input as on MX5000. Well it's plug in power but shared with the wire remote. When is most likly to use mic? When having the cam on a tripod and using the remote. MX had its headphone out shared with the remote so you could not eventualy monitor the sound while using this remote. As there is no lanc conector on both cams I think this is really frustraiting. I don't want anybody to understand me wrong because in fact I'm going to buy GS100 very soon. Just want to hear from other people their opinion. Other weak point is the low resolution viewfinder. If all above issues were solved I would pay extra 200 $ for that cam. Still it would be cheaper than TRV950 or other closer to the prosumer level cams. Obviously Pana decided to chase the mass market and cut off essential functions to save few pennies.

July 15th, 2003, 09:36 AM	#100
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	But how does it look?? C'MON GUYS. I hear lots of banter, but how does the 30fps look? In 16 x 9? Is this the same chipset as in the dvx100? They must have "neutered" it somehow...worse in low light? Can you only use the panasonic additional microphone or does the hot shoe accept an azden, sennheiser, etc etc? Some one post some grabs! ;-) close to pushing the "buy" button... Michael

July 15th, 2003, 10:34 AM	#101
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	Bogdan, I guess it is OK to 'complain' or 'bash' a camera if the facts are presented correctly. And it is not 'hypocritical' to bash a camera and buy it. There is no perfect camera out there and each has its own strengths and weakneses. The joy of a forum like this is to be able to discuss the pros and cons openly, so that we can all know of the benefits and drawbacks of each model, before we commit to a purchhase, or to use a camera better. For the record, yet again, I chose the older MX350 over the MX500. I still find the MX500 not up to my expectations and taste as compared to the MX350. But the MX500 is a good camera. When my MX350 dies and I need a replacement immediately, it could well be the MX500. The fact that I have not been barred or kicked from this forum, even with my incessant complains of the MX500 (almost unfairly!) shows that open discussion based on facts is well accepted here! This is out-of-topic and I apologise for that. __________________ Cam: Panasonic MX350EN, SOLD my MX8EN Mac: G3 400MHz PowerBook, 256 MB, OS 9 PC: Pentium 4 2800MHz, 512 MB, WindowsXP SW: iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Ulead Video Studio, various little utilities

July 14th, 2003, 09:48 AM	#91
John Schaefer New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burton, MI, USA Posts: 8	The only special DV tape I've been able to track down from JVC is a supposed "Professional Grade" product that's described as being of top quality and is implied to offer additional ruggedness and reliability. Here's the announcement press release from this year's NAB show: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/p...&feature_id=08 It definitely does not seem as if it provides wider bandwidth than standard DV tape. The reason for offering/using an Extended Definition tape, with wider bandwidth, presumably would be to permit a camcorder to operate in a mode wherein it would capture and record higher-resolution, higher-data-rate signals than can be recorded onto ordinary DV tape without lossy compression. As far as I know, the JVC consumer and semi-pro HD cams have no need for wider bandwidth than standard DV, because they have no capability to record wideband signals in uncompressed form. On the other hand, an evolution of a camera like Digicam 100 or AG-DVX100 could be designed to capture and record signals in uncompressed form that are too wideband for conventional DV tape, but would be practical on an Extended Definition tape. It's conceivable that the present Digicam 100 chassis has such a capability, not revealed in its menus unless the camera detects the presence of a suitable wideband tape-type, and ready to be enabled for a later prosumer version. That's speculation, of course.

July 14th, 2003, 12:27 PM	#92
Eng Yew Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Castro Valley, CA, USA Posts: 32	I just purchased my GS100K from PriceJapan. Ordered it on Tuesday and recieved it on Friday. Very fast. Took some test shots, plugged it into my Mac and captured anamorphic footage into FCP. Initial look at Cinema Pro video on FCP looks very good! The gamma seems to be compressed so that the whites are at the 70% in the Waveform monitor. Footage looks a lot more defined than my old camcorder. The menus are all Japanese - which I can't read! However the GS70 manual is very helpful. I don't expected to use the SD card funtions to take photographs, set it up as a webcam or to take MPEG 4 movies so I did not bother to figure out the menus for those functions. I managed to figure out how to set date and time, turn off the annoying sounds, turn off the recording indicator, switch the camcorder into progressive mode (you see a square boxed 'P' on the LCD) and get it into Cinema Pro mode, and the low light functions. Enough for me! What I can't figure out is what all the buttons on the inside of the LCD do? Can one adjust the shutter speed in manual mode? Can I use the built-in flash for movies or is it just for photos? What I don't like: All the manual functions (White Balance, Exposure, Focus) are on the outside on the camcorder lens which is prone to being accidentally touched. Especially the manual focus ring. There is no lock for it. The low light, MagicPix and 0 Lux, functions are useless as any movement in the footage becomes blurry (however, the normal mode seems to capture the inside of my house at night pretty well). I have more discovery and experimenting to do. If anyone is doing an English translation cheat sheet - I'll be happy to participate! Glad I bought the camera! P.S. It always amazes me how prevalent English is. Even in a pure Japanese product there is English, and all numerals are Roman. P.P.S Oh! And thanks to Patricia for her comments on this board. It made the difference.

July 14th, 2003, 01:35 PM	#93
Marius Burz Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: romania Posts: 52	Hi Eng... From where did you get your GS70 manual? Is it in electronic format? I am also looking for a manual(even in Japanese) for the GS100 but I need it in electronic format, so I will be able to use some online dictionary. Any idea where I could find one? The cam is on the way to me, so in 2 days I'll play with the babe(I hope...).

July 14th, 2003, 02:21 PM	#95
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Marius, for manuals, try the Panasonic web sites. GS-70 manual is available on the US web site in the support/downloads section. Can't say for sure re Japanese manual, though, since I haven't looked for it.

July 14th, 2003, 02:44 PM	#96
Eng Yew Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Castro Valley, CA, USA Posts: 32	I downloaded the GS70 manual from the Panasonic USA website. I actually found the GS100K on-screen menus to be almost identical to the GS70 (with minor deviations to the MX5000). Going down the sub-menus you will find almost identical menu options. The key thing is to recognize the words "Auto", "Yes" and "No" in Japanese which is easy to do because the first GS100K sub-menu (which is almost identical to the GS70) has those three Japanese characters and it is easy. Other things are easy: Web is spelled "WEB" , MPEG-4 is spelled "MPEG-4". The AE modes and White Balance modes are all icons - challenging both English and Japanese people. Shutter speed is "1/60" etc. "WB" is white balance, "MNL" is manual, and "MF" is, of course. manual focus. Like I said, the Japanese have so much English mixed in, it is a different culture. I have not fiddled around enough to create a definitive cheat sheet but I am sure it can be done easily and with only a little help from a Japanese reader. More later.

July 15th, 2003, 08:32 AM	#98
John Schaefer New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burton, MI, USA Posts: 8	Bogdan, my guess is that eventually Pana will offer a prosumer version of the camera with a higher-res viewfinder, possibly some sound connectivity changes, and whatever other minor setup changes and accessory-package inclusions the prosumer will be willing to pay for. Sony did so with the PD150/VX2000, and JVC with the JY-HD10/GR-HD1. I would think that a similar move would be obvious to Pana as well, because there are probably many people like yourself who would be willing to pay $200 more to get a few features improved.

July 15th, 2003, 09:18 AM	#99
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Bogdan, Camera data is automatically recorded by default. However, the user has the option to display or not the data during playback. That option is in the playback menu. I guess Pany want us to buy the new hot shoe compatible mic. I guess Pany think that most users of the GS100 would be using the LCD most of the time rather than the VF. Regards

July 15th, 2003, 05:29 PM	#102
Eng Yew Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Castro Valley, CA, USA Posts: 32	FYI. Masaki-san has posted the English translation for the GS-100K menus on the MX5000 Yahoo group a few minutes ago. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MX5000/files/GS100Menu.zip

July 15th, 2003, 05:39 PM	#103
Masaki Kuraoka New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 10	Hello Mr. Lee I am sorry that it is not PDF files. Can someone convert to PDF for everyone who need them? Well, I don't have GS100K so, I don't need it :-P Anyway, This thread is toooooooo loooooooong..........

July 15th, 2003, 07:01 PM	#104
Mike de la Fuente New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 9	PDF of translations

July 15th, 2003, 07:19 PM	#105
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Thanks to all who replayed to my worries. Well, sorry for entering with the negative side, I just thought there is no need to repeat the good things which are much more. Allan, I feel relieved that the data can be replayed. Thanks for all the presice information you are giving us. Other wise I also wish better inegration on the border of consumer and pro. Or at least to be given the choice wich way to go Yow! I think it's fair to complain about this. Even consumer models of Sony have separate mic, headphone, lanc conectors. They also sell proprietary hot shoe mics but you can chose not to buy such and go with other brand. Not with this lovely Pana though. I have to go with their gun mic. Cheers, Bogdan