Tdk,fuji,pana Tape Analysis For Gs100k

Yow Cheong Hoe · September 10th, 2003, 03:21 AM

WOW, I have been using wet tape, and cleaning the heads with a dry tape cleaner... never knew that! :)

But no side effects after almost a year of VERY constant and heavy use. But the moment a Panasonic dry tape pops in, the cemra chokes after a few hours of head time. Hmmm... strange that Panasonic cam can't use Panasonic tapes effectively!

Frank Granovski · September 10th, 2003, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Hmmm...strange that Panasonic cam can't use Panasonic tapes effectively!

I've never had to use the cleaner in my MX300 which I still have (the first one I gave away). However, before my last wedding or funeral (can't recall), I thought I'd clean the heads on one of my other cams. Well, I unwrapped the Pana head cleaner (that came with the MX), and put it in my cam. Beep, beeb, beeb---it wouldn't work! I removed it, shut the cam off, took out the battery, waited (had a smoke), then went and tried it again. Beep, beep, beep. Darn. Still wouldn't work. Oh, no! I thought, my cam's finally broke! Then I popped in the Canon head cleaner, and amazingly, it worked like a charm. (I can never find a Fuji head cleaner. It seems you can't get them here.)

Jeff Donald · September 10th, 2003, 05:57 AM

I've never seen a wet miniDV cleaning tape? Are people just assuming that the manufacture of wet tapes make wet cleaning tapes? Or are people looking at the cleaning tape wrapper and if it says dry, assume it is for dry tapes?

Allan Rejoso · September 10th, 2003, 10:56 AM

Bogdan, Fuji actually makes some of those colorful ones as well. That's the reason why the wife decided to shift from Sony to Fuji...she liked the Fuji colors better.

Frank Granovski · September 10th, 2003, 05:02 PM

Jeff, I haven't seen one either, but I believe Sony makes one.

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 10th, 2003, 06:54 PM

Allan, thanks for the correction - Fuji have 5 color standard tapes (dated 2001.9.1) but I couldn't see master tape in their Axia home page.
I also posted not very detailed link for the tape comparison - me myself couldn't find what I thought is there - sorry about that. I'll post new link when I found it.

Now just for the record. On the Japanese TDK home page you can see comparison charts of their standard and master tapes (look at the botom).
What comes out is slightly better signal of the master but most important is the chart for the pause (still) mode. It seems that the magnetic layer is worn out for just 5-7 minutes on the standard tape while the master sustains for over 60 min.
How about that? Presuming that every stand by is in fact pause (the head is in contact with the tape) that might lead to very bad things if you don't switch of the cam while not in use. The auto switch of is after about 5 min, so just before your tape breaks. Hmmm...

http://www.tdk.co.jp/tjbbd01/bbd28000.htm

P.S. You will need an online translator if you want to read the Japanese text.

Jeff Donald · September 10th, 2003, 09:17 PM

Frank, I'm not 100% sure, but in the cleaning tape industry, wet vs. dry refers to the use of a wetting agent, not the type lubricant etc. you're trying to clean. In other words a wet cleaning tape would have you apply a liquid to a reservoir or pad inside the cleaning tape (like the old audio cassette wet cleaning tapes). Dry cleaning tapes are used without any additional liquids, dry.

I have a friend that was a manager for a very large, national tape distributor. Several years ago I had him look in his product catalog for a wet cleaning tape and none of the manufactures he carried (Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Maxell,) listed a part number to order a wet cleaning tape. However, they all listed cleaning tapes. When he checked the inventory in his warehouse, they all said dry cleaning tape on the wrapper.

Lincoln Norris · September 10th, 2003, 09:55 PM

Just a thought........

Wet tapes and humidity, coild there be a relation between these two when my camera

Drip signal appears (condensation warning) and asks me to take the tape out and wait three hours

Its so stinking wet and hot here in Tokyo and the Aircons are so dry and cold...your glasses fog up when you walk outside...

Although the dry tape is states obviously better and I will choose a brand and stick to it from when I decide....but besides that do you think that in the relation of wet tape and this warning problem that the dry tape would assist!

Any thoughts,

cheers,

Lincoln

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 10th, 2003, 10:06 PM

Lincoln, I've got my messages for Drip while using TDK 'dry' tapes.

In fact 'dry' or 'wet' is nothing you can see just looking the tape. These are very fine particles layerd over the tape for lubricant purposes. 'Wet' is most likly to use special chemical, and 'dry' similar chemical but in poweder condition.

In both cases you can swear there is nothing on the tape - you just can't see it with bare eye.

Jeff Donald · September 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Wet and dry has nothing to do with ambient weather conditions

Frank Granovski · September 10th, 2003, 10:37 PM

That's Jeff. However, the Pana head cleaner I have says, for dry lubricant based miniDV, or something like that. Anyways, I've got a Canon head cleaner, and I'm sure it's going to last me another 5 years (thanks to Fuji miniDV tape). :):):)

PS: the Pana head cleaner won't work in the cam. I just keep it in my bag to remind me of Pana's tape quality. :):):)

Lincoln Norris · September 10th, 2003, 10:41 PM

Thanks Bogdan, I am clear now.......Cheers

Amit Sawarkar · September 10th, 2003, 11:12 PM

Bogdan,

Thank you for your insightful comments.

Therefore, what I gather is since all pana tapes are created using 'metal evaporation' technique, whether it is EJ, EX, PQ, or MQ, they should have the same performance characteristics.

(unless there's a quality difference that is effected by slower or faster rate of metal deposition on the tape by varying the speed of the tape during the manufacturing process).

So, is this in disagreement with what Samuel came across at?
http://www.pvnb.org/MQ_Tape%20Formulation.pdf
"This is for panasonic MQ series. (THIS IS NOT THE EJ,EX,PQ ETC)"

Frank Granovski · September 10th, 2003, 11:53 PM

This is what happens when you don't use Fuji miniDV tapes:

http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-defects.html

:):):)

Samuel Raj · September 11th, 2003, 12:08 AM

Amit

Panasonic's PQ and MQ series use S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) technology, as it was described in that Pdf file.

Most of the tapes use the ME technology, inlcuding TDK, Pana other series, Fuji.

September 10th, 2003, 03:21 AM	#16
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	WOW, I have been using wet tape, and cleaning the heads with a dry tape cleaner... never knew that! :) But no side effects after almost a year of VERY constant and heavy use. But the moment a Panasonic dry tape pops in, the cemra chokes after a few hours of head time. Hmmm... strange that Panasonic cam can't use Panasonic tapes effectively! __________________ Cam: Panasonic MX350EN, SOLD my MX8EN Mac: G3 400MHz PowerBook, 256 MB, OS 9 PC: Pentium 4 2800MHz, 512 MB, WindowsXP SW: iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Ulead Video Studio, various little utilities

September 10th, 2003, 05:57 AM	#18
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I've never seen a wet miniDV cleaning tape? Are people just assuming that the manufacture of wet tapes make wet cleaning tapes? Or are people looking at the cleaning tape wrapper and if it says dry, assume it is for dry tapes? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 10th, 2003, 09:17 PM	#22
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Frank, I'm not 100% sure, but in the cleaning tape industry, wet vs. dry refers to the use of a wetting agent, not the type lubricant etc. you're trying to clean. In other words a wet cleaning tape would have you apply a liquid to a reservoir or pad inside the cleaning tape (like the old audio cassette wet cleaning tapes). Dry cleaning tapes are used without any additional liquids, dry. I have a friend that was a manager for a very large, national tape distributor. Several years ago I had him look in his product catalog for a wet cleaning tape and none of the manufactures he carried (Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Maxell,) listed a part number to order a wet cleaning tape. However, they all listed cleaning tapes. When he checked the inventory in his warehouse, they all said dry cleaning tape on the wrapper. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#25
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Wet and dry has nothing to do with ambient weather conditions __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 10th, 2003, 10:56 AM	#19
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Bogdan, Fuji actually makes some of those colorful ones as well. That's the reason why the wife decided to shift from Sony to Fuji...she liked the Fuji colors better.

September 10th, 2003, 05:02 PM	#20
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Jeff, I haven't seen one either, but I believe Sony makes one.

September 10th, 2003, 06:54 PM	#21
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Allan, thanks for the correction - Fuji have 5 color standard tapes (dated 2001.9.1) but I couldn't see master tape in their Axia home page. I also posted not very detailed link for the tape comparison - me myself couldn't find what I thought is there - sorry about that. I'll post new link when I found it. Now just for the record. On the Japanese TDK home page you can see comparison charts of their standard and master tapes (look at the botom). What comes out is slightly better signal of the master but most important is the chart for the pause (still) mode. It seems that the magnetic layer is worn out for just 5-7 minutes on the standard tape while the master sustains for over 60 min. How about that? Presuming that every stand by is in fact pause (the head is in contact with the tape) that might lead to very bad things if you don't switch of the cam while not in use. The auto switch of is after about 5 min, so just before your tape breaks. Hmmm... http://www.tdk.co.jp/tjbbd01/bbd28000.htm P.S. You will need an online translator if you want to read the Japanese text.

September 10th, 2003, 09:55 PM	#23
Lincoln Norris Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Japan Chiba-ken Posts: 42	Just a thought........ Wet tapes and humidity, coild there be a relation between these two when my camera Drip signal appears (condensation warning) and asks me to take the tape out and wait three hours Its so stinking wet and hot here in Tokyo and the Aircons are so dry and cold...your glasses fog up when you walk outside... Although the dry tape is states obviously better and I will choose a brand and stick to it from when I decide....but besides that do you think that in the relation of wet tape and this warning problem that the dry tape would assist! Any thoughts, cheers, Lincoln

September 10th, 2003, 10:06 PM	#24
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Lincoln, I've got my messages for Drip while using TDK 'dry' tapes. In fact 'dry' or 'wet' is nothing you can see just looking the tape. These are very fine particles layerd over the tape for lubricant purposes. 'Wet' is most likly to use special chemical, and 'dry' similar chemical but in poweder condition. In both cases you can swear there is nothing on the tape - you just can't see it with bare eye.

September 10th, 2003, 10:37 PM	#26
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	That's Jeff. However, the Pana head cleaner I have says, for dry lubricant based miniDV, or something like that. Anyways, I've got a Canon head cleaner, and I'm sure it's going to last me another 5 years (thanks to Fuji miniDV tape). :):):) PS: the Pana head cleaner won't work in the cam. I just keep it in my bag to remind me of Pana's tape quality. :):):)

September 10th, 2003, 10:41 PM	#27
Lincoln Norris Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Japan Chiba-ken Posts: 42	Thanks Bogdan, I am clear now.......Cheers

September 10th, 2003, 11:12 PM	#28
Amit Sawarkar Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pleasanton, California Posts: 35	Bogdan, Thank you for your insightful comments. Therefore, what I gather is since all pana tapes are created using 'metal evaporation' technique, whether it is EJ, EX, PQ, or MQ, they should have the same performance characteristics. (unless there's a quality difference that is effected by slower or faster rate of metal deposition on the tape by varying the speed of the tape during the manufacturing process). So, is this in disagreement with what Samuel came across at? http://www.pvnb.org/MQ_Tape%20Formulation.pdf "This is for panasonic MQ series. (THIS IS NOT THE EJ,EX,PQ ETC)"

September 10th, 2003, 11:53 PM	#29
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	This is what happens when you don't use Fuji miniDV tapes: http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-defects.html :):):)

September 11th, 2003, 12:08 AM	#30
Samuel Raj Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 210	Amit Panasonic's PQ and MQ series use S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) technology, as it was described in that Pdf file. Most of the tapes use the ME technology, inlcuding TDK, Pana other series, Fuji.