GS400 review with 16:9 clip at DVinfo.net

Rokta Bija · July 6th, 2004, 06:05 PM

Has a 16:9 clip from the GS400

http://ad.impress.co.jp/tie-up/panasonic-dvc0406_2/

Here it is translated, sort of

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fad.impress.co.jp%2ftie-up%2fpanasonic-dvc0406_2%2f

Rokta Bija · July 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Forgot to mention, can someone disect this clip, seems like it might be progressive.

Boyd Ostroff · July 6th, 2004, 06:14 PM

The interesting thing I see there is the chart which evidently illustrates how the different modes are mapped to the CCD's. It looks remakably similar to the Sony PDX-10 http://www.greenmist.com/dv/16x9/10.JPG and that would indicate high quality 16:9. I wonder if they're using the same chips? Didn't I read elsewhere that they are 1/4.7", like the PDX-10?

Tommy Haupfear · July 6th, 2004, 08:10 PM

Boyd, the GS400 might even have Sony CCDs.

Both cams have 1/4.7" CCDS with 1070k pixels each. The GS400 is claiming that there is no vertical zoom to achieve its 853x480 widescreen mode.

Allan Rejoso · July 6th, 2004, 08:26 PM

What may be intriguing is that the GS400 has 10,000 more effective pixels under video mode, but 10,000 less effective pixels under card mode, compared to the Sonys. Could be due to firmware?

Hey Pat, this is the same ad-impress report I was referring to in the other thread. A similar report was written by the same person/company for the HC1000. So that writer/company has to be neutral ne.

Patricia Kim · July 6th, 2004, 08:55 PM

Similar meaning equally laudatory? Neutral meaning equally well-paid?

I was on the gs400 pages of the Pana site and did take note of one thing, which may or may not mean anything. Pana was pretty careful in the manual for the gs100 to use the word "progressive" with stills only. For the gs400 web site, there's no use of the term "progressive" with stills, but there is in reference to video. Any possibility high quality 16:9 and true 30p on the Pana are responsible for the slow sales of the Sony? If what Kaku Ito said in another thread about being refused a commitment of 4 black gs400s because production would not be able to match the market the hype was creating, I'm beginning to wonder. (Yes, I know you're all debating whether there's real progressive or not. That's why I'm asking this question.)

(Oh, yeah, being totally ignorant of these things, I did assume those were the Sony chips, because Japanese companies do license various technologies to one another and sell each other parts. That's why I keep making snide remarks about vertical smear. So how will you all find out if they are Sony chips?)

Tommy Haupfear · July 6th, 2004, 09:40 PM

Quote:

So how will you all find out if they are Sony chips?

Easy, point the GS400 at a 250w bulb to see if we have been HAD.

:)

Patricia Kim · July 6th, 2004, 09:59 PM

ROFL!!!

Robert Kirkpatrick · July 7th, 2004, 01:47 PM

The clip won't play for me for some strange reason. Anyone know what codec is used for this? It's not listed for me on the properties.

Oliver Hu · July 7th, 2004, 02:17 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Kirkpatrick : The clip won't play for me for some strange reason. Anyone know what codec is used for this? It's not listed for me on the properties. -->>>

It's MPEG2, similar to DVD. You need WinDVD or PowerDVD software which includes MPEG2 codec.

Robert Kirkpatrick · July 7th, 2004, 05:27 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Oliver Hu : It's MPEG2, similar to DVD. You need WinDVD or PowerDVD software which includes MPEG2 codec. -->>>

Thanks. I found a version codec online and downloaded it, and now the clip works well. The clip looks nice. If the U.S. version is the same, I think I've found my new camera. I didn't notice any interlaced lines, or lines/steps with motion. I just wish they did some faces though, to see what the skintone looked like.

I wonder how it compares to DVC30 footage. (I've yet to see any pro-cinema video clips from the DVC30.)

The mic however didn't sound too great. Beneath the wind and the background noise, I could still hear a bit of hum (or whatever the term is). But this might be the compression as well -- I'm still new to the technical side of things.

Kin Kwan · July 9th, 2004, 02:29 PM

I think the clip is actually interlaced, but your player is deinterlacing it for you during playback.

Tommy Haupfear · July 9th, 2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

I think the clip is actually interlaced, but your player is deinterlacing it for you during playback.

If it was shot in Pro Cinema mode then it would frame mode.

Quote:

I wonder how it compares to DVC30 footage. (I've yet to see any pro-cinema video clips from the DVC30.)

You're going to get better low light performance from the DVC30's larger CCDs (1/4" vs 1/4.7") and much lower pixel count per CCD (410k vs 1070k). I would rather have the GS400 with higher resolution 16:9 mode and they both have frame mode and cine-like gamma.

Here are four comparison Pro Cinema frames from the GS100 and DVC30. Then to think that the GS400 will have a higher resolution 16:9 mode than the GS100.

Click here

Kaku Ito · July 21st, 2004, 01:50 AM

Tommy, I'd like to ask you not to take my visuals from my site and post them somewhere else. However, my blog made by iblog really screwed up and the page I posted these frames is gone, so you had to do this, I guess. But you should mention who these were shot by or mention the link of where you got these from. Please be carefull. I'm responsible for the rider's rights too.

Anyhow, GS400 does not have progressive ccds nor Sony ccds. GS400 uses memory to create (just like deinterlace, but not sure of the intervals) progressive like recording mode. I hear DVX100s have finer image because DVX100s have real progressive ccds. The footage taken by GS100 at "frame mode" is okay when you watch it with TVs but when I watch it on my 120 inch projector, the resolution is not high enough. I guess that footage taken by DVX100 would have finer image. I dedided to carry Canon XL2 as a dealer (over DVX100) and since the technology between DVX100 and XL2 is similar, I can tell you later (around end of Aug.) the differences between "real progressive video on progressive ccds" and the "frame mode on interlaced ccds".

Kaku Ito · July 21st, 2004, 02:00 AM

Ah, Tommy, I found all the other articles that you were referring my stills with the credit. Thank you for all of your effort. The first one I looked at was the one without the credit.

I will make a comparison page with GS400 footage sometime this weekend.

<<<-- Originally posted by Kaku Ito : Tommy, I'd like to ask you not to take my visuals from my site and post them somewhere else. However, my blog made by iblog really screwed up and the page I posted these frames is gone, so you had to do this, I guess. But you should mention who these were shot by or mention the link of where you got these from. Please be carefull. I'm responsible for the rider's rights too.

Anyhow, GS400 does not have progressive ccds nor Sony ccds. GS400 uses memory to create (just like deinterlace, but not sure of the intervals) progressive like recording mode. I hear DVX100s have finer image because DVX100s have real progressive ccds. The footage taken by GS100 at "frame mode" is okay when you watch it with TVs but when I watch it on my 120 inch projector, the resolution is not high enough. I guess that footage taken by DVX100 would have finer image. I dedided to carry Canon XL2 as a dealer (over DVX100) and since the technology between DVX100 and XL2 is similar, I can tell you later (around end of Aug.) the differences between "real progressive video on progressive ccds" and the "frame mode on interlaced ccds". -->>>

July 6th, 2004, 06:05 PM	#1
Rokta Bija Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	GS400 review with 16:9 clip Has a 16:9 clip from the GS400 http://ad.impress.co.jp/tie-up/panasonic-dvc0406_2/ Here it is translated, sort of http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fad.impress.co.jp%2ftie-up%2fpanasonic-dvc0406_2%2f

July 9th, 2004, 02:29 PM	#12
Kin Kwan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 120	I think the clip is actually interlaced, but your player is deinterlacing it for you during playback. __________________ Kin Kwan

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July 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM	#2
Rokta Bija Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	Forgot to mention, can someone disect this clip, seems like it might be progressive.

July 6th, 2004, 06:14 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	The interesting thing I see there is the chart which evidently illustrates how the different modes are mapped to the CCD's. It looks remakably similar to the Sony PDX-10 http://www.greenmist.com/dv/16x9/10.JPG and that would indicate high quality 16:9. I wonder if they're using the same chips? Didn't I read elsewhere that they are 1/4.7", like the PDX-10?

July 6th, 2004, 08:10 PM	#4
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Boyd, the GS400 might even have Sony CCDs. Both cams have 1/4.7" CCDS with 1070k pixels each. The GS400 is claiming that there is no vertical zoom to achieve its 853x480 widescreen mode.

July 6th, 2004, 08:26 PM	#5
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	What may be intriguing is that the GS400 has 10,000 more effective pixels under video mode, but 10,000 less effective pixels under card mode, compared to the Sonys. Could be due to firmware? Hey Pat, this is the same ad-impress report I was referring to in the other thread. A similar report was written by the same person/company for the HC1000. So that writer/company has to be neutral ne.

July 6th, 2004, 08:55 PM	#6
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Similar meaning equally laudatory? Neutral meaning equally well-paid? I was on the gs400 pages of the Pana site and did take note of one thing, which may or may not mean anything. Pana was pretty careful in the manual for the gs100 to use the word "progressive" with stills only. For the gs400 web site, there's no use of the term "progressive" with stills, but there is in reference to video. Any possibility high quality 16:9 and true 30p on the Pana are responsible for the slow sales of the Sony? If what Kaku Ito said in another thread about being refused a commitment of 4 black gs400s because production would not be able to match the market the hype was creating, I'm beginning to wonder. (Yes, I know you're all debating whether there's real progressive or not. That's why I'm asking this question.) (Oh, yeah, being totally ignorant of these things, I did assume those were the Sony chips, because Japanese companies do license various technologies to one another and sell each other parts. That's why I keep making snide remarks about vertical smear. So how will you all find out if they are Sony chips?)

July 6th, 2004, 09:59 PM	#8
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	ROFL!!!

July 7th, 2004, 01:47 PM	#9
Robert Kirkpatrick Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 199	The clip won't play for me for some strange reason. Anyone know what codec is used for this? It's not listed for me on the properties.

July 7th, 2004, 02:17 PM	#10
Oliver Hu New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 16	<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Kirkpatrick : The clip won't play for me for some strange reason. Anyone know what codec is used for this? It's not listed for me on the properties. -->>> It's MPEG2, similar to DVD. You need WinDVD or PowerDVD software which includes MPEG2 codec.

July 7th, 2004, 05:27 PM	#11
Robert Kirkpatrick Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 199	<<<-- Originally posted by Oliver Hu : It's MPEG2, similar to DVD. You need WinDVD or PowerDVD software which includes MPEG2 codec. -->>> Thanks. I found a version codec online and downloaded it, and now the clip works well. The clip looks nice. If the U.S. version is the same, I think I've found my new camera. I didn't notice any interlaced lines, or lines/steps with motion. I just wish they did some faces though, to see what the skintone looked like. I wonder how it compares to DVC30 footage. (I've yet to see any pro-cinema video clips from the DVC30.) The mic however didn't sound too great. Beneath the wind and the background noise, I could still hear a bit of hum (or whatever the term is). But this might be the compression as well -- I'm still new to the technical side of things.

July 21st, 2004, 01:50 AM	#14
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Tommy, I'd like to ask you not to take my visuals from my site and post them somewhere else. However, my blog made by iblog really screwed up and the page I posted these frames is gone, so you had to do this, I guess. But you should mention who these were shot by or mention the link of where you got these from. Please be carefull. I'm responsible for the rider's rights too. Anyhow, GS400 does not have progressive ccds nor Sony ccds. GS400 uses memory to create (just like deinterlace, but not sure of the intervals) progressive like recording mode. I hear DVX100s have finer image because DVX100s have real progressive ccds. The footage taken by GS100 at "frame mode" is okay when you watch it with TVs but when I watch it on my 120 inch projector, the resolution is not high enough. I guess that footage taken by DVX100 would have finer image. I dedided to carry Canon XL2 as a dealer (over DVX100) and since the technology between DVX100 and XL2 is similar, I can tell you later (around end of Aug.) the differences between "real progressive video on progressive ccds" and the "frame mode on interlaced ccds".

July 21st, 2004, 02:00 AM	#15
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Ah, Tommy, I found all the other articles that you were referring my stills with the credit. Thank you for all of your effort. The first one I looked at was the one without the credit. I will make a comparison page with GS400 footage sometime this weekend. <<<-- Originally posted by Kaku Ito : Tommy, I'd like to ask you not to take my visuals from my site and post them somewhere else. However, my blog made by iblog really screwed up and the page I posted these frames is gone, so you had to do this, I guess. But you should mention who these were shot by or mention the link of where you got these from. Please be carefull. I'm responsible for the rider's rights too. Anyhow, GS400 does not have progressive ccds nor Sony ccds. GS400 uses memory to create (just like deinterlace, but not sure of the intervals) progressive like recording mode. I hear DVX100s have finer image because DVX100s have real progressive ccds. The footage taken by GS100 at "frame mode" is okay when you watch it with TVs but when I watch it on my 120 inch projector, the resolution is not high enough. I guess that footage taken by DVX100 would have finer image. I dedided to carry Canon XL2 as a dealer (over DVX100) and since the technology between DVX100 and XL2 is similar, I can tell you later (around end of Aug.) the differences between "real progressive video on progressive ccds" and the "frame mode on interlaced ccds". -->>>