Micro Four Thirds - the start of low cost shallow DOF videography? at DVinfo.net

Thomas Richter · August 5th, 2008, 11:49 AM

Olympus and Panasonic have today announced the specifications for a "micro four thirds" camera system. This system attempts to combine the sensor size and exchangable lens benefits of a four thirds SLR camera with compact-camera size factor. It is achieved by shortening the distance between lens and sensor by removing the mirror block and optical viewfinder.

Benefits include:

...

"Current Four Thirds lenses can be used with an adapter
Enables seamless switching between still and movie shooting"

Found on DPreview:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08...fourthirds.asp

If the quality of movie modes on premium compact photocams continues to increase, this system will be perfect for low-cost shallow depth of field (DOF) videography in an ultra compact package (sensor size: 18 x 13.5 mm, significantly larger than 2/3").

Enjoy,

Thomas

Paul Curtis · August 6th, 2008, 02:27 AM

This is one thing well worth keeping an eye on. The lenses and systems would be perfect for video as well. We'll no doubt see more at photokina but there's a few sample photos floating around of a tradition lens vs the micro 4/3s version.

It wouldn't take much to use this sensor and lens system in a system designed for video rather than stills.

You can already see that the nikon D80 replacement the D90 is alledged to have recording of live view as a feature (this is a rumour at the moment). But it does highlight a convergence between SLR and video cameras.

cheers
paul

Tim Polster · August 6th, 2008, 10:13 AM

This is true, but a still camera is a still camera and a video camera is a video camera.

I would not want to use a still camera on a video shoot.

Canon would have the best chance of integration, but I think the end result would be too large for still work, and too small for video work imho.

Paul Curtis · August 6th, 2008, 11:37 AM

Sure, a stills camera form factor isn't going to work very well, but use the same lens mount and sensor sizes in a different form factor and then we'd have something worth looking at?

cheers
paul

Thomas Richter · August 6th, 2008, 01:01 PM

Tim,

while I won't dispute this at all, there is something that non of the consumer priced camcorders can do, which is done very well by entry level digital SLRs: Shallow depth of field for background blur. So far, you have to use a 35mm adapter to get shallow DOF which degrades the image (to a degree), creates light loss and increases the overall size dramatically. It also costs extra.

I would love to defocus backgrounds, but normally have to carry at least 6 lbs of gear to do it - usually in a very awkward form factor (video cam + adapter + lens). On holidays, this is rarely possible. If a usable 1280 by 720 p clip at 24p is created, I am happy to settle for a photo cam.

Tim Polster · August 6th, 2008, 11:48 PM

It will be interesting to see how the still world will force the hand of the video world.

Up until now, to get large enough chips to get shallow DOF in the video space one needs to spend tens of thousands of dollars.

And your correct, even more shallow DOF can be obtained by a $600 DSLR.

Not that DOF is everything, but chip size is very important to image quality.

The RED and the EX-1 have really put the video world on notice that a different way is coming and it does not cost as much as the old ways.

I will be watching this space as well, I just don't like the idea of still camera design in a video application.

Thomas Richter · September 21st, 2008, 05:20 PM

Wow, what a crazy market. Nikon D90, Canon 5D MK2 and now ...

"Panasonic has shown a prototype of an HD video micro Four Thirds camera."

over at DPreview.com:
Panasonic shows HD Micro Four Thirds prototype: Digital Photography Review

Seems everyone is joining the party.

Special about this one: This time actually called "video camera" (with stereo mike and dedicated record button).
Just happy my prognosis 6 weeks ago wasn't too far off. Nikon & Canon surprised me, though.

Dylan Couper · September 21st, 2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

This is true, but a still camera is a still camera and a video camera is a video camera.

Yes... today... but a year from now? I wouldn't gamble on it.

Paulo Teixeira · October 3rd, 2008, 07:36 PM

Panasonic interview about the G1 and future HD version
Photokina Interview Series: Panasonic: Digital Photography Review
(Just incase some of you might not have seen this.)

Here’s an interesting quote:

"The new HD lens has a dedicated system for autofocus in movie video recordings, and the movement of the aperture is totally different for HD lenses; it has to be working continuously. This all takes time to develop. PMA [early March '09] is our target for the HD camera; that's the target anyway...[laughter] We've already displayed a mock up, but we have to exceed the performance and quality of the HD video modes already shown on new DSLR cameras."

The HD version looks very promising.

Bill Koehler · January 25th, 2009, 08:56 PM

Has anyone heard anything more about this?
There are a number of articles about Panasonic showing a video capable prototype, complete with pictures.

Panasonic unveils video-capturing Lumix G prototype - Engadget

Panasonic shows HD Micro Four Thirds prototype: Digital Photography Review

As two examples.
One of my disappointments with CES was no furthur announcements from either Olympus or Panasonic about this.
To me micro 4/3 looks like a killer platform that Panasonic could use to build both an interchangable lens camera AND videocam family around.
With a big problem being how it might cannibalize their own current product line.
Or am I off base?

Rick L. Allen · January 25th, 2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

It will be interesting to see how the still world will force the hand of the video world.

Yeah, as soon as the video world embraces silent movies and we shooters decide that holding a heavy camera and glass in front of us for long periods of time is far superior to putting a camera with XLR inputs on our shoulders.

I can drive a nail with an adjustable wrench but it really makes more sense to use a hammer doesn't it.

Eric Stemen · January 26th, 2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick L. Allen

Yeah, as soon as the video world embraces silent movies and we shooters decide that holding a heavy camera and glass in front of us for long periods of time is far superior to putting a camera with XLR inputs on our shoulders.

I can drive a nail with an adjustable wrench but it really makes more sense to use a hammer doesn't it.

So you would rather have an xl-h1 over an hvx-200 or ex-1 because the xl-h1 has a shoulder pad? Bringing a separate audio recorder is something I wouldn't mind living with if could take full manual control of a DSLR while shooting.

John Wiley · January 26th, 2009, 06:53 AM

I'm keen to see the HD movie camera as well. I'm dreaming of putting one of these in a water housing with something like an 8mm lens. Much easier to find manufacturers for the SLR housings, plus they're cheaper and smaller than say an FX7 with a 0.3x fisheye lens in a custom housing.

I wouldn't want one as a main camera, but as another tool in the kit.

John Wyatt · January 26th, 2009, 06:56 AM

What's interesting with the G1 (probably similar with the video version coming out), is that among the still frame sizes available,1920 x 1080 is one of the "official" sizes (the smallest). I don't know if still image characteristics are shared by the video output, but it could bold well for a good quality downscaling for the 1920 x 1080 video?

John Wiley · January 26th, 2009, 07:15 AM

I wonder if they will limit the video to 720p. Already they offer this on some their point and shoots, including 24fps on the Lumix LX3. I think 720p @ 24fps is a good balance... converts easily in PAL land, and lets them use their current MJPEG compression at the same bitrate, where as 1080p would require them to implement a whole new format (AVCHD?).

August 5th, 2008, 11:49 AM	#1
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Micro Four Thirds - the start of low cost shallow DOF videography? Olympus and Panasonic have today announced the specifications for a "micro four thirds" camera system. This system attempts to combine the sensor size and exchangable lens benefits of a four thirds SLR camera with compact-camera size factor. It is achieved by shortening the distance between lens and sensor by removing the mirror block and optical viewfinder. Benefits include: ... "Current Four Thirds lenses can be used with an adapter Enables seamless switching between still and movie shooting" Found on DPreview: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08...fourthirds.asp If the quality of movie modes on premium compact photocams continues to increase, this system will be perfect for low-cost shallow depth of field (DOF) videography in an ultra compact package (sensor size: 18 x 13.5 mm, significantly larger than 2/3"). Enjoy, Thomas

September 21st, 2008, 05:20 PM	#7
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Here we go Wow, what a crazy market. Nikon D90, Canon 5D MK2 and now ... "Panasonic has shown a prototype of an HD video micro Four Thirds camera." over at DPreview.com: Panasonic shows HD Micro Four Thirds prototype: Digital Photography Review Seems everyone is joining the party. Special about this one: This time actually called "video camera" (with stereo mike and dedicated record button). Just happy my prognosis 6 weeks ago wasn't too far off. Nikon & Canon surprised me, though.

October 3rd, 2008, 07:36 PM	#9
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	Panasonic interview about the G1 and future HD version Photokina Interview Series: Panasonic: Digital Photography Review (Just incase some of you might not have seen this.) Here’s an interesting quote: "The new HD lens has a dedicated system for autofocus in movie video recordings, and the movement of the aperture is totally different for HD lenses; it has to be working continuously. This all takes time to develop. PMA [early March '09] is our target for the HD camera; that's the target anyway...[laughter] We've already displayed a mock up, but we have to exceed the performance and quality of the HD video modes already shown on new DSLR cameras." The HD version looks very promising. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

August 6th, 2008, 02:27 AM	#2
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	This is one thing well worth keeping an eye on. The lenses and systems would be perfect for video as well. We'll no doubt see more at photokina but there's a few sample photos floating around of a tradition lens vs the micro 4/3s version. It wouldn't take much to use this sensor and lens system in a system designed for video rather than stills. You can already see that the nikon D80 replacement the D90 is alledged to have recording of live view as a feature (this is a rumour at the moment). But it does highlight a convergence between SLR and video cameras. cheers paul

August 6th, 2008, 10:13 AM	#3
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	This is true, but a still camera is a still camera and a video camera is a video camera. I would not want to use a still camera on a video shoot. Canon would have the best chance of integration, but I think the end result would be too large for still work, and too small for video work imho.

August 6th, 2008, 11:37 AM	#4
Paul Curtis Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canterbury Posts: 411	Sure, a stills camera form factor isn't going to work very well, but use the same lens mount and sensor sizes in a different form factor and then we'd have something worth looking at? cheers paul

August 6th, 2008, 01:01 PM	#5
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Tim, while I won't dispute this at all, there is something that non of the consumer priced camcorders can do, which is done very well by entry level digital SLRs: Shallow depth of field for background blur. So far, you have to use a 35mm adapter to get shallow DOF which degrades the image (to a degree), creates light loss and increases the overall size dramatically. It also costs extra. I would love to defocus backgrounds, but normally have to carry at least 6 lbs of gear to do it - usually in a very awkward form factor (video cam + adapter + lens). On holidays, this is rarely possible. If a usable 1280 by 720 p clip at 24p is created, I am happy to settle for a photo cam.

August 6th, 2008, 11:48 PM	#6
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	It will be interesting to see how the still world will force the hand of the video world. Up until now, to get large enough chips to get shallow DOF in the video space one needs to spend tens of thousands of dollars. And your correct, even more shallow DOF can be obtained by a $600 DSLR. Not that DOF is everything, but chip size is very important to image quality. The RED and the EX-1 have really put the video world on notice that a different way is coming and it does not cost as much as the old ways. I will be watching this space as well, I just don't like the idea of still camera design in a video application.

January 25th, 2009, 08:56 PM	#10
Bill Koehler Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA Posts: 760	Has anyone heard anything more about this? There are a number of articles about Panasonic showing a video capable prototype, complete with pictures. Panasonic unveils video-capturing Lumix G prototype - Engadget Panasonic shows HD Micro Four Thirds prototype: Digital Photography Review As two examples. One of my disappointments with CES was no furthur announcements from either Olympus or Panasonic about this. To me micro 4/3 looks like a killer platform that Panasonic could use to build both an interchangable lens camera AND videocam family around. With a big problem being how it might cannibalize their own current product line. Or am I off base?

January 26th, 2009, 06:53 AM	#13
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	I'm keen to see the HD movie camera as well. I'm dreaming of putting one of these in a water housing with something like an 8mm lens. Much easier to find manufacturers for the SLR housings, plus they're cheaper and smaller than say an FX7 with a 0.3x fisheye lens in a custom housing. I wouldn't want one as a main camera, but as another tool in the kit.

January 26th, 2009, 06:56 AM	#14
John Wyatt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Country, UK Posts: 141	What's interesting with the G1 (probably similar with the video version coming out), is that among the still frame sizes available,1920 x 1080 is one of the "official" sizes (the smallest). I don't know if still image characteristics are shared by the video output, but it could bold well for a good quality downscaling for the 1920 x 1080 video?

January 26th, 2009, 07:15 AM	#15
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	I wonder if they will limit the video to 720p. Already they offer this on some their point and shoots, including 24fps on the Lumix LX3. I think 720p @ 24fps is a good balance... converts easily in PAL land, and lets them use their current MJPEG compression at the same bitrate, where as 1080p would require them to implement a whole new format (AVCHD?).