Finally got our HVX200 RAW Clips! Need a server!!!!!

Jeff Kilgroe · December 17th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Crap...

I'm at home on dial-up... Now you have forced me to drive to the office to download these. All the way to work on a saturday! (my office is less than half a mile away). Hehe.

Here I go...

Michael Pappas · December 17th, 2005, 03:34 PM

Here is a direct link to the third HVX200 clip!

http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/HVX720-3.mov

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Jimi Colteryahn · December 17th, 2005, 09:41 PM

I downloaded the files and quiktime won't play them. Says there's a component missing?

Steven Thomas · December 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM

Jim you need FCP, Edius Broadcast, or AVID HD to open the files.

Steve

King Chung Huang · December 17th, 2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimi Colteryahn

I downloaded the files and quiktime won't play them. Says there's a component missing?

I got that on one of my Macs. You need the DVCPROHD component. It comes with Final Cut Pro. I'm not sure where else it's available.

Tom Wills · December 17th, 2005, 10:52 PM

Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

I saw the 1080 footage and then watched it again at 2x, and I could see much more detail than I could in the 720 version, so the sensors are definetly not just 720. I mean, just look at the guy's face, it's so apparent.

All in all, incredible. And the DVCProHD codec is good enough that it plays on my Dual 867 G4 with 1 gig of RAM. It can get a little choppy, but as long as it's not full screen I'm good. Quite impressive indeed.

Michael Pappas · December 17th, 2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wills

Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

Tim, you should tell Panasonic that. Since last nights announcement I received 5 emails or more from Panasonic and I was told; and this is an exact QUOTE "" Do not share these clips." period. What is that? I should put up all these Panasonic emails on my web site to show you how a corporation can get nutty over clips that are not bad.

What's ironic is below that order to ""Do not share these clips." it reads ""Panasonic Ideas For Life" Dictatorship is not my idea of life....

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wills

Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix.

I saw the 1080 footage and then watched it again at 2x, and I could see much more detail than I could in the 720 version, so the sensors are definetly not just 720. I mean, just look at the guy's face, it's so apparent.

All in all, incredible. And the DVCProHD codec is good enough that it plays on my Dual 867 G4 with 1 gig of RAM. It can get a little choppy, but as long as it's not full screen I'm good. Quite impressive indeed.

Steev Dinkins · December 17th, 2005, 11:51 PM

Well some cats are out of the bag now. I realize that there may be some more tweaks to the camera for final release, but I'm glad you posted the clips. This let's me make a better decision since for me it's the HVX200 vs XL-H1. Battle of the titans.

I downloaded all clips, and I've been manipulating them like mad in Final Cut Pro, and comparing it to XL-H1 and XL2 footage. The HVX200 and XL-H1 footage both look gorgeous. I think the HVX200 looks more filmic and warm. The one thing that I must say the XL-H1 has over the HVX200 as I'm seeing so far is this - pushing the DVCPROHD footage with color correction and filtering is very unforgiving and it's easy to just annihilate the quality. Whereas the HDV from the XL-H1 is more like DV25 in it's ability to handle major tweaking, resulting in graininess, sure, but not self destructing.

Examples (keep in mind this is to intentionally put the images through harsh stupid tweaks)

HDV Example from XL-H1 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...wout_XL-H1.jpg

DV Example from XL2 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...lowout_XL2.jpg

DVCPRO HD Example from HVX200 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...out_HVX200.jpg

Of course, I would be going more for something along the lines of this:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20.../CC_HVX200.jpg

It's just a bit unsettling knowing what's going on underneath there. I think I can make the camera work for sure, and I still think many significant features kicks the XL-H1's ass. But gone are my feelings of HDV being a downright inferior codec for acquisition. The XL-H1 vs HVX200 is a highly neck and neck competition. Tough call. I'd like to own both. :)

Gotta get used to treading lightly on DVCPRO HD:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...CC2_HVX200.jpg - Nice!

Steev Dinkins · December 18th, 2005, 12:14 AM

Additional notes: I also ran similar tests on Varicam footage and it yielded similar results - gotta tread conservatively on the tweaking, particularly refraining from upping the blacks very far (I never do that anyway).

Another note, recompressing HDV back out to HDV after color correction is downright scary.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...estruction.jpg

I tested the HVX200 footage out to HDV (Mpeg2) and it's smooth, without any blocky artifacts whatsoever.

Regarding recompressing DVCPRO HD, it won't be part of my workflow, but I did a ton of simulation tests here, comparing what happens with HDV vs DVCPRO HD *after* acquisition:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/DVCPROHD_vs_HDV/

Shannon Rawls · December 18th, 2005, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Pappas

.....tell Panasonic that. Since last nights announcement I received 5 emails or more from Panasonic and I was told; and this is an exact QUOTE "Do not share these clips." period. What is that?

WHAT????? Are you serious Michael???? They have that kind of attitude with you??

- ShannonRawls.com

Michael Pappas · December 18th, 2005, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

WHAT????? Are you serious Michael???? They have that kind of attitude with you??

- ShannonRawls.com

Very serious Shannon, totally out of line too!

I'm actually considering writing the headquarters. Reporting this whole incident as well contacting the Japan Headquarters, I'm a working professional who went to a convention and nowhere was it specified that I couldn't film with the HVX200 on my P2 cards. No signs, nothing. I guess there were something like 20 of them on the floor. So many of them who would think couldn't!

Then I offer this footage to people like you and I and everyone else here interested in clips from the HVX200. Then Panasonic sends me a ""Do not share these clips." email. And more emails, Basically telling me what to do. A citizen.... A big corporation like Panasonic; a world wide devision as big as Panasonic broadcast do this is very disheartening. I might as well post the emails for people to see. It's sad really. The HVX200 is a good camera, and to see Panasonic stoop so low is bad thing. Let the product sell it self.

Look how classy Canon is acting in their promotion of the XLH1. They are letting the product sell itself. I have a lot of respect for Canon. Panasonic should learn a thing or two from them.

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Shannon Rawls · December 18th, 2005, 02:54 AM

See man...that's what I'm talking about. Some of these companies are too INVOLVED and their emotions spill over on the internet. Kinda like that BLOG SPOT web page that people are saying is fake and fabricated to fool unsuspected internet googlers who are drooling over this camera. And what's up with these reps who get in arguments with consumers in these forums & at tradeshows...what is that??? Then we have all this dumb propoganda and announcements and fancy full page advertisments in DV magazine and such. All for a camera that ain't even out yet and hasn't even been reveiewed or it's footage witnessed good by anybody! You would think this camera cooks dinner and massages your feet after a long day of shooting. It's like they have given labotomys to these young naive cats, it's just ridiculous.

I mean...think about it. Can you guys fathom a Sony or Canon representative hanging out here arguing in a discussion forum with you about their forthcoming sub $10k camera that's supposed to be release 9 months from now?? Then imagine Sony goes on to diss the other manufacturers and their products to win you over and befriend you virtually. lol and then imagine that same Sony rep trying to convince you not to buy a competitors camera today but instead for you to "WAIT TILL NAB". LMAO! and then when NAB comes they have nothing to show you, so then after NAB they say WAIT TILL DVEXPO and when the expo comes, they have little 17" tv's to showcase their HIGH DEFINITION footage!!!!!! my goodness.......So now 9-months has gone by and everybody has waited on buying other GOOD gear to rather purchase this super-camera. You go out and manage to get some footage after the DVEXPO and would like to share it with the world at the DV Information Network, and what do you get??? You get demanding emails telling you what to do and not do with your own footage!

Man PUHLEEEZE!!! That is SO NOT the spirit of "DVINFO.NET". That sounds more like a tyrany.(sp?)

...least not forget.....it's 10-days before their "supposed" release date and NOBODY has ANY "OFFICIAL" footage to see WHATSOEVER...after TWO OR THREE MAJOR TRADESHOWS??? and also don't forget..they are being SECRETIVE on BASIC SPECIFICATIONS for the camera that we all should know about????

man....what is that???

Hey......I love their products, they are great....but their ethics have room for improvement??? I tip my hat to Sony, JVC & Canon.

- ShannonRawls.com

Michael Pappas · December 18th, 2005, 03:21 AM

So how is the XLH1 going! I am so glad you got one, it's one hell of a camera!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

See man...that's what I'm talking about. Some of these companies are too INVOLVED and their emotions spill over on the internet. Kinda like that BLOG SPOT web page that people are saying is fake and fabricated to fool un- ShannonRawls.com

Robert Jackson · December 18th, 2005, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Pappas

Look how classy Canon is acting in their promotion of the XLH1. They are letting the product sell itself. I have a lot of respect for Canon. Panasonic should learn a thing or two from them.

You know, the actual street date of these cameras has been delayed a little and it may well be because of final tweaking. They may have felt like they still had a lot of work to do, but marketing had them out there showing product because of the trade show schedule. If you worked to bring something unique to market and had it shown off in a light that you found less-than-flattering you might get a little edgy, too.

Not that it isn't dicky of them to whine about it, but they may really feel like the product wasn't ready for market when they had to show it.

Personally, I can't find any serious fault with the concept or execution of this camera. Panasonic essentially have no competition. P2, DVC Pro HD, variable frame rates...there's just nothing else that compares in this price range. So they could be verbally abusive with me and I'd still be looking to buy one. ;-)

-Rob

Michael Pappas · December 18th, 2005, 04:36 AM

I believe this camera might have been rushed. I love the concept of the HVX200. I also love the XLH1. Panasonic should not have had 20 of them on the floor at so many different booths. How many prototypes did they need to float around. I think that most people believed that since the camera was to be in stores in 21 days or so from the show date that these cameras were the real deal. Unfortunately Panasonic dropped the ball on this and should have had them in lock down until they were closer to a shipping product...

-pappas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Jackson

You know, the actual street date of these cameras has been delayed a little and it may well be because of final tweaking. They may have felt like they still had a lot of work to do, but marketing had them out there showing product because of the trade show schedule. If you worked to bring something unique to market and had it shown off in a light that you found less-than-flattering you might get a little edgy, too.

Not that it isn't dicky of them to whine about it, but they may really feel like the product wasn't ready for market when they had to show it.

Personally, I can't find any serious fault with the concept or execution of this camera. Panasonic essentially have no competition. P2, DVC Pro HD, variable frame rates...there's just nothing else that compares in this price range. So they could be verbally abusive with me and I'd still be looking to buy one. ;-)

-Rob

December 17th, 2005, 03:19 PM	#16
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	Crap... I'm at home on dial-up... Now you have forced me to drive to the office to download these. All the way to work on a saturday! (my office is less than half a mile away). Hehe. Here I go... __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

December 17th, 2005, 09:41 PM	#18
Jimi Colteryahn Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rep. of Panama Posts: 34	hii! I downloaded the files and quiktime won't play them. Says there's a component missing?

December 17th, 2005, 11:51 PM	#23
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Well some cats are out of the bag now. I realize that there may be some more tweaks to the camera for final release, but I'm glad you posted the clips. This let's me make a better decision since for me it's the HVX200 vs XL-H1. Battle of the titans. I downloaded all clips, and I've been manipulating them like mad in Final Cut Pro, and comparing it to XL-H1 and XL2 footage. The HVX200 and XL-H1 footage both look gorgeous. I think the HVX200 looks more filmic and warm. The one thing that I must say the XL-H1 has over the HVX200 as I'm seeing so far is this - pushing the DVCPROHD footage with color correction and filtering is very unforgiving and it's easy to just annihilate the quality. Whereas the HDV from the XL-H1 is more like DV25 in it's ability to handle major tweaking, resulting in graininess, sure, but not self destructing. Examples (keep in mind this is to intentionally put the images through harsh stupid tweaks) HDV Example from XL-H1 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...wout_XL-H1.jpg DV Example from XL2 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...lowout_XL2.jpg DVCPRO HD Example from HVX200 - http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...out_HVX200.jpg Of course, I would be going more for something along the lines of this: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20.../CC_HVX200.jpg It's just a bit unsettling knowing what's going on underneath there. I think I can make the camera work for sure, and I still think many significant features kicks the XL-H1's ass. But gone are my feelings of HDV being a downright inferior codec for acquisition. The XL-H1 vs HVX200 is a highly neck and neck competition. Tough call. I'd like to own both. :) Gotta get used to treading lightly on DVCPRO HD: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...CC2_HVX200.jpg - Nice! __________________ www.holyzoo.com

December 18th, 2005, 12:14 AM	#24
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Additional notes: I also ran similar tests on Varicam footage and it yielded similar results - gotta tread conservatively on the tweaking, particularly refraining from upping the blacks very far (I never do that anyway). Another note, recompressing HDV back out to HDV after color correction is downright scary. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...estruction.jpg I tested the HVX200 footage out to HDV (Mpeg2) and it's smooth, without any blocky artifacts whatsoever. Regarding recompressing DVCPRO HD, it won't be part of my workflow, but I did a ton of simulation tests here, comparing what happens with HDV vs DVCPRO HD after acquisition: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/DVCPROHD_vs_HDV/ __________________ www.holyzoo.com Last edited by Steev Dinkins; December 18th, 2005 at 01:30 AM.

December 18th, 2005, 02:54 AM	#27
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	See man...that's what I'm talking about. Some of these companies are too INVOLVED and their emotions spill over on the internet. Kinda like that BLOG SPOT web page that people are saying is fake and fabricated to fool unsuspected internet googlers who are drooling over this camera. And what's up with these reps who get in arguments with consumers in these forums & at tradeshows...what is that??? Then we have all this dumb propoganda and announcements and fancy full page advertisments in DV magazine and such. All for a camera that ain't even out yet and hasn't even been reveiewed or it's footage witnessed good by anybody! You would think this camera cooks dinner and massages your feet after a long day of shooting. It's like they have given labotomys to these young naive cats, it's just ridiculous. I mean...think about it. Can you guys fathom a Sony or Canon representative hanging out here arguing in a discussion forum with you about their forthcoming sub $10k camera that's supposed to be release 9 months from now?? Then imagine Sony goes on to diss the other manufacturers and their products to win you over and befriend you virtually. lol and then imagine that same Sony rep trying to convince you not to buy a competitors camera today but instead for you to "WAIT TILL NAB". LMAO! and then when NAB comes they have nothing to show you, so then after NAB they say WAIT TILL DVEXPO and when the expo comes, they have little 17" tv's to showcase their HIGH DEFINITION footage!!!!!! my goodness.......So now 9-months has gone by and everybody has waited on buying other GOOD gear to rather purchase this super-camera. You go out and manage to get some footage after the DVEXPO and would like to share it with the world at the DV Information Network, and what do you get??? You get demanding emails telling you what to do and not do with your own footage! Man PUHLEEEZE!!! That is SO NOT the spirit of "DVINFO.NET". That sounds more like a tyrany.(sp?) ...least not forget.....it's 10-days before their "supposed" release date and NOBODY has ANY "OFFICIAL" footage to see WHATSOEVER...after TWO OR THREE MAJOR TRADESHOWS??? and also don't forget..they are being SECRETIVE on BASIC SPECIFICATIONS for the camera that we all should know about???? man....what is that??? Hey......I love their products, they are great....but their ethics have room for improvement??? I tip my hat to Sony, JVC & Canon. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 17th, 2005, 03:34 PM	#17
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Here is a direct link to the third HVX200 clip! http://www.salatar.com/hvx200/HVX720-3.mov Michael Pappas Arrfilms@hotmail.com PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms http://www.PappasArts.com http://www.Myspace.com/

December 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM	#19
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Jim you need FCP, Edius Broadcast, or AVID HD to open the files. Steve

December 17th, 2005, 10:52 PM	#21
Tom Wills Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 326	Really beautiful footage. A few Chromatic Abberation issues, but nothing that a little shot planning can't fix. I saw the 1080 footage and then watched it again at 2x, and I could see much more detail than I could in the 720 version, so the sensors are definetly not just 720. I mean, just look at the guy's face, it's so apparent. All in all, incredible. And the DVCProHD codec is good enough that it plays on my Dual 867 G4 with 1 gig of RAM. It can get a little choppy, but as long as it's not full screen I'm good. Quite impressive indeed.