Please upload a raw MXF taken directly from the P2 card

Steve Connor · December 30th, 2005, 01:02 PM

I agree - it's the only clip that is noisy

David Newman · December 30th, 2005, 01:11 PM

Kaku,

Yes, we do our best to help Windows users by making HD editing easy and fast. I just wished we had a better relationship with Panasonic, who have not offered (even when we asked) to help CineForm support the HVX200. Do you have a contact that may help us?

Currently to convert the MXF files for easier usage on the PC, it is not as simple as we would like due to the lack of a decent DVCPRO-HD decoder. Today's workflow requires using the AVID DV100 decoder through quicktime, with DVFilm Maker and exporting to CineForm AVI. I just dragged the CONTENTS\VIDEO\00xxx.MXF files onto the DVFilm window (following the instruction at http://dvfilm.com/hvx200/index.htm) and it worked. This solution is not perfect, but workable, as the AVID decoder has its limitations.

I don't personally know Mr. Kasugai at Adobe, although David Taylor at CineForm has had correspondence with him some time ago. Why do you ask?

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Kaku,

The footage of the chopper in the sky looks very noisy.

Where you using gain? If so, how much?

I do not see much noise in your other clips.

Thank you,
Steve

That thing appeared all of a sudden, so i probably had ND filter on and had to turn on the gain. Maybe we should stop providing that clip, but I though people wanna see the propellars spinning.

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Kaku,

Yes, we do our best to help Windows users by making HD editing easy and fast. I just wished we had a better relationship with Panasonic, who have not offered (even when we asked) to help CineForm support the HVX200. Do you have a contact that may help us?

Currently to convert the MXF files for easier usage on the PC, it is not as simple as we would like due to the lack of a decent DVCPRO-HD decoder. Today's workflow requires using the AVID DV100 decoder through quicktime, with DVFilm Maker and exporting to CineForm AVI. I just dragged the CONTENTS\VIDEO\00xxx.MXF files onto the DVFilm window (following the instruction at http://dvfilm.com/hvx200/index.htm) and it worked. This solution is not perfect, but workable, as the AVID decoder has its limitations.

I don't personally know Mr. Kasugai at Adobe, although David Taylor at CineForm has had correspondence with him some time ago. Why do you ask?

K, David, thank you for the details.

I wonder by just providing MXF files in the video folder would work for both mac and windows users. What do you think Michael and Barry?

Mr. Kasugai is the keyperson for Windows related media production products. He said he was coming in new year to see the turnkey solution we have built and talk some other business. I just thought such key product like Cineform should do better in Japan and he is the person to work it out with.

Barry Green · December 30th, 2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

I wonder by just providing MXF files in the video folder would work for both mac and windows users. What do you think Michael and Barry?

For Mac users it's fine. For Windows users who have Avid or Canopus it's fine. But for the vast majority of Windows users it'd be a pain in the patootie. I think what most Windows users want to see is a high-quality .WMV file.

If you provide the MXF files for Windows users, we have to download the avid codec, then dvfilm maker, then convert the file, and then we have something we can play back at like one frame per second. It's not watchable. Whereas with a Windows Media 9 or WMP10 file, we can play back full-screen. For people wanting to watch footage, WMV is a much better choice. For those wanting to do critical examination of the codec, MXF is the only choice.

Stephen L. Noe · December 30th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Kaku,

I've seen the MXF you provided in full sunlight and with ND filter. Now I'd like to see a dark indoor shot, lit by one 60 or 100 watt incadescent lamp using full gain on the camera into the shadows of the room.

MXF once again, when you get around to it. Many thanks...

Eloy Varela · December 30th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Hello,

Avid Xpress Pro HD 5.2.1 does not recognize 002J3 and 003GF files sent by Kaku Ito.The program gives this message: "The imported file is not a supported XDCAM MXF file" .

why?

Barry Green · December 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM

Well, for one thing XDCAM uses its own proprietary implementation of MXF, different from what every other MXF system uses.

So the problem is that Avid appears to be trying to read the MXF file as if it's a Sony XDCAM file, rather than an Op-Atom MXF file. I don't know why that would be happening; Avid is extremely Op-Atom aware. Hopefully some Avid user will write in here and tell you the steps to take to get it to work.

Tom Wills · December 30th, 2005, 04:47 PM

Kaku, I am amazed. I just played back that footage in Final Cut. Truly incredible resolution, detail, and everything.

The one thing I'm really amazed about is that I could play them at a smaller resolution and edit and color correct on them quickly on - get this - a Dual 867 G4 with only a gig of RAM. I guess it just goes to show how much better of an editing codec DVCProHD is than HDV, which I can barely edit on.

John Jay · December 30th, 2005, 05:21 PM

Kaku,

Could you please post an mxf clip with the sharpness turned off; i am seeing halos 5 pixels thick

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jay

Kaku,

Could you please post an mxf clip with the sharpness turned off; i am seeing halos 5 pixels thick

Hey, John Jay,

Okay. I was shooting with defualt scene file for 60p and 1080i, but I guess the sharpness is on at default? I will check this.

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wills

Kaku, I am amazed. I just played back that footage in Final Cut. Truly incredible resolution, detail, and everything.

The one thing I'm really amazed about is that I could play them at a smaller resolution and edit and color correct on them quickly on - get this - a Dual 867 G4 with only a gig of RAM. I guess it just goes to show how much better of an editing codec DVCProHD is than HDV, which I can barely edit on.

Good for you!

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Kaku,

I've seen the MXF you provided in full sunlight and with ND filter. Now I'd like to see a dark indoor shot, lit by one 60 or 100 watt incadescent lamp using full gain on the camera into the shadows of the room.

MXF once again, when you get around to it. Many thanks...

That's easy, I will do that. I have a little party tonight so I will shoot video of people food, drinks under the lights, dark and bright.

Kaku Ito · December 30th, 2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

For Mac users it's fine. For Windows users who have Avid or Canopus it's fine. But for the vast majority of Windows users it'd be a pain in the patootie. I think what most Windows users want to see is a high-quality .WMV file.

If you provide the MXF files for Windows users, we have to download the avid codec, then dvfilm maker, then convert the file, and then we have something we can play back at like one frame per second. It's not watchable. Whereas with a Windows Media 9 or WMP10 file, we can play back full-screen. For people wanting to watch footage, WMV is a much better choice. For those wanting to do critical examination of the codec, MXF is the only choice.

Barry,

Thanks, I think many people realize then what the raw file is all about.
I'm waaay behinde with my other obligations to be able to do more, I hope some one good with the ability to master wmv files can help us to provide footage to wide audience. I have three video projects to finish and one magazine article to write right away :(. I'm a dead meat.

John Hewat · December 30th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Files can be read on Windows with a demo version of DVFilm Maker 2.21 (info here http://dvfilm.com/hvx200/index.htm.) I converted them to a CineForm AVI and dropped them onto a Aspect HD timeline, all works fine.

David,
I'm glad to hear this - with Premiere Pro being my editor of choice and me about to jump on the Aspect HD bandwagon, I'm glad that there is SOME way of getting HD footage from the Panasonic into Premiere. In all honesty, I'd rather go through the conversion process so that I could continue using Premiere than change editors. So I have two questions:

1. Would Aspect be powerful enough to handle the HD footage?
2. Do you foresee future versions of a Cineform product for integrating HD footage from this camera directly into Premiere Pro?
3. Is the footage you converted to Cineform AVI degraded? And if so, is it substantial?

December 30th, 2005, 01:11 PM	#17
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Kaku, Yes, we do our best to help Windows users by making HD editing easy and fast. I just wished we had a better relationship with Panasonic, who have not offered (even when we asked) to help CineForm support the HVX200. Do you have a contact that may help us? Currently to convert the MXF files for easier usage on the PC, it is not as simple as we would like due to the lack of a decent DVCPRO-HD decoder. Today's workflow requires using the AVID DV100 decoder through quicktime, with DVFilm Maker and exporting to CineForm AVI. I just dragged the CONTENTS\VIDEO\00xxx.MXF files onto the DVFilm window (following the instruction at http://dvfilm.com/hvx200/index.htm) and it worked. This solution is not perfect, but workable, as the AVID decoder has its limitations. I don't personally know Mr. Kasugai at Adobe, although David Taylor at CineForm has had correspondence with him some time ago. Why do you ask? __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 30th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#22
Eloy Varela New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pontevedra- Spain Posts: 23	MXF file ??? Hello, Avid Xpress Pro HD 5.2.1 does not recognize 002J3 and 003GF files sent by Kaku Ito.The program gives this message: "The imported file is not a supported XDCAM MXF file" . why?

December 30th, 2005, 05:21 PM	#25
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Kaku, Could you please post an mxf clip with the sharpness turned off; i am seeing halos 5 pixels thick __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

December 30th, 2005, 01:02 PM	#16
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	I agree - it's the only clip that is noisy

December 30th, 2005, 03:23 PM	#21
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Kaku, I've seen the MXF you provided in full sunlight and with ND filter. Now I'd like to see a dark indoor shot, lit by one 60 or 100 watt incadescent lamp using full gain on the camera into the shadows of the room. MXF once again, when you get around to it. Many thanks...

December 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM	#23
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Well, for one thing XDCAM uses its own proprietary implementation of MXF, different from what every other MXF system uses. So the problem is that Avid appears to be trying to read the MXF file as if it's a Sony XDCAM file, rather than an Op-Atom MXF file. I don't know why that would be happening; Avid is extremely Op-Atom aware. Hopefully some Avid user will write in here and tell you the steps to take to get it to work.

December 30th, 2005, 04:47 PM	#24
Tom Wills Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 326	Kaku, I am amazed. I just played back that footage in Final Cut. Truly incredible resolution, detail, and everything. The one thing I'm really amazed about is that I could play them at a smaller resolution and edit and color correct on them quickly on - get this - a Dual 867 G4 with only a gig of RAM. I guess it just goes to show how much better of an editing codec DVCProHD is than HDV, which I can barely edit on.