Hi

I'm in the Mac/200 camp too. Ordered my 200 at the beginning of the week based on Kaku's test footage, editing in FCP... burning DVD's (HD and SD) in DVD SP.

It all worked on my 15" G4 laptop ... and cruised in the G5 edit suites.

There's just too many workflow efficiencies and options to say no at this point.

(and I was very close to going with an XL-2....)

Since I have no use for uncompressed HD from the HD XL1 this is just a dream combination. (at least in my head ... I'm sure there'll be many 'adventures' ahead as always ;-))

Lee

Rob, your comment is a great suggestion. I'm sure there are plenty of others who like the HVX200 and feel pretty good about using an HVX200/Mac combo, but are not 100% there yet. I think the "fence sitting" category would be a great one to add. I'll do so above (in post #23), and will also do in the future.

SO, if you:
1) like the HVX200
2) like the Mac
3) like the workflow of 1 & 2 together

... BUT would like to see more footage and how things develop before you spend any more money on either/or, feel free to post here as well. Just let us all know you're "Fence Sitting."

Rob, sorry to ask, I got the "fence sitting camp," but what's "atm"?

Either -
Auto Teller Machine or
At The Moment.

Depending on context - engrish being what is these days it can be hard to tell ...

I'll take a stab and guess that "atm" means at the moment.

FCP is the best solution at the moment and may continue to be. But the reality is it just may not be an option for a lot of people. there was so much talk about all the extra expenses that you have going to HD especially with the HVX. For those with a PC based editing system in place I think we all thought bigger Hard drives or RAIDS and HD monitor and backup solutions and RT HD output cards.

The truth is if you have a PC editing setup it is a hard pill to swallow that the only real good solution at the moment is investing in a MAC and all the associated hardware. And then all of the "cross platform" extras I mentioned. It can make the HVX200 that much less attractive for some. Luckily I have my feet firmly planted in SD for a while longer so I will wait out the format's growing pains.

Rob, Thanks. Should have guessed "At the Moment."

Marty, I know what you mean. If I had all PC stuff right now, I would not be able to afford to make the switch and/or incorporate it and have it all. The huge cost of hardware AND the software, etc. Plus all the "unknowns" that I would feel are out there with not only adding a different operating system, but making the big switch from SD to DVCPro HD/50/25.

Have Dual2.3Ghz G5. FCP5. Flip4Mac Studio Pro. WMVHD should still look good at 6-8Mbps. That's what Microsoft has on their showcase site. I did a test encode at around 25Mbps and would post it if Chris (or someone) would give me a place to FTP it.

File would need some hefty WindowsXP WMP10 PC to play it but it might help the Windows users who can't handle MXF and don't have DVCProHD codec something to see.

At such high data rates I'm not sure if there's issues with the encode itself since it's beyond the data rate Flip4Mac may support but there's only one way to try it.

Just thought I'd mention there's actually 2 markets to think about. In the VHS vs BetaMax ware, VHS won BUT Betacam (very much related to BetaMax) became a staple in broadcast.

We may see a situation where HD DVD wins in the homes but BluRay wins in the facilities. Of course such facilities will have to burn to HD DVD but BluRay may be the choice to archive. A 50 GB BluRay disk should hold more than a 30 minute BetaSP tape.

An ideal might actually be a battery powered 50GB BluRay recorder to back up shoot material for the HVX (Hmm sorta sounds like XDCAM but with a different MXF).

Blueray has a problem coming out of the gate. The HD DVD machines they are introducing are starting at $500 and Blueray at $1600. Which one do you want to buy? And since HD DVD looks and feels like what we already have, it's an easier sell. But then again if companies start to distribute movies on bluray, it will have an edge. It's no different than original DVD. It was about nothing but distribution. When motion picture companies decided to make DVDs after the fourth reincarnation of DVD, it finally took off.


"Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800."

It does not matter if you have 2 gigs or 8 gigs of Ram FCP only uses 2. If you are running other programs while running FCP then more memory helps but*other than that it does nothing.

"HD DVD" has a better name. in my opinion

If they combine forces, they should call it "HDVD"

- shannon

HD DVD might be easier to understand what it is but BluRay has a SciFi kewl factor.

I can imagine the first "consumer" burner from Sony being called something like: "BluRay LightSabre" and the high end "BluRay DeathRay"

Now what would that 13 year old computer geek that has a spare $2000 who wants to be cool, want to buy?

"I just bought my HD DVD burner" or "I just bought my BluRay DeathRay burner."

Of course the kiddie version would be the "BluRay HolySmokes!"

Thanks Walter, that's good to know. I had actually upped the RAM for other programs that I also work in (Motion, After Effects, etc.). That's interesting that any FCP benefit would be capped at 2. Good to know to eliminate spending extra money on something not needed if you bought a Mac to only run FCP.

My favorite lines from the HVX manual on the page labeled "Nonlinear editing with the P2 card":

p82

"Operation is not guaranteed in Macintosh operating systems."
and
"Operation is not guaranteed in Windows operating systems."

So there you go. Actually it makes sense that it works with Mac because Mac went to bed with Panasonic a while back with the introduction of the Varicam so since this is also a DVCpro format, it didn't take much to make it work. As for Windows, since companies like Sony are competitors, expect them to drag their feet on helping any.

You definitely can, as long as you're running a video capture application on the computer. It works exactly like DV does.

Oh, I think that would probably be the worst thing someone could do... that would not be what you'd want to do. I'd expect the powerbook wouldn't even allow it, would it? Would the powerbook allow an external "format" command? I hope not... if someone does that, they'll probably be none too happy!

So there you go what?

The USB port is guaranteed to work with Windows systems, not guaranteed with Mac.

The Firewire port is guaranteed to work with mac systems, not guaranteed with Windows.

It has both. Each system has a guaranteed workflow.

Hi Robert,
Curious as to why you go to the trouble of separating your audio render, vidoe render, and footage onto 3 separate drives.

Sounds like you have THE setup. Did you put it all together specifically for the HVX200 or were you looking at some other camera options as well? Have you been in the video industry for a while?

Not so fast, you forgot me. I plan to use my G4 until the 486 G5s come out. If the 486 G5 laptop is produced Monday I may look at laptop editing, which I don't really like but it may have to do because I prefer my desktop to edit on. I'm really considering a G5 laptop as my main editing computer. Hell must have frozen over. Of course I don't plan to do anything else on it and probably won't get one until 2007. I plan to be doing DV and downconverted HDV for awhile before I grab an HVX unless I get a lot of money, in which I'll buy everything. My dream is to own the Canon H1 and the Panasonic HVX. I do believe I'll purchase my HVX when P2 cards come down or when the appropriate FireStore comes out.

-Nate

Please write a book about it.

-Nate

HVX and Mac
 

I'll also be using a Mac with FCP for editing with my HVX-200 when it arrives. I currently use a G4 laptop with 30" display for editing. I also have an IMac G5 with a terabyte of disk that I use for storing projects I'm not working on, and for rendering and compression with Squeeze.

I've ordered the dual 8GB P2 configuration from Great Northern Video in NH. Haven't decided yet with to go Cineporter or Firestore, but in the meantime I have an old IPod that I'll use, or I'll dump the cards direct to the laptop.

I plan to get a Mactel laptop as soon as a fast Powerbook version becomes available.

ok Derek - I've made up my mind. So you can take me off the fence.

I'm going to rent the cam I need in the short to medium term.
Lotsa reasons for this approach - the main one being, that it's such a fast moving game atm. I figure that you need to be able recoup/amortise the cost of any of these cams with their accessories within a 6 month period - 1 year at the most.

What I'd love to see -
a larger HVX from Panny, bigger form factor and beefed up chips, lens options etc. Yes it would cost more <shrug> ... That I'd go for in a heartbeat.

From Sony - hmm, I doubt they will do anything more than what they've done with hdv - other than tweaking to the codec. They'll only sell it down into their lower end. Too much risk for them with their existing higher end cams.

Canon - well, wysiwyg. This is their top end. They'll improve it only when they absolutely have to.

JVC - are perfectly capable of offering a substantial improvement.

My $0.02c.

Rob,

No problem. I can see your viewpoint. Here's the updated list of those planning to use the HVX/Mac combo:

Kaku Ito
Derek West
Edwin Hernandez
John Benton
Barry Green
Bill Sepaniak
Lou Squitieri
Jeff Kilgroe
Paul Lohbauer
Rob Katz
Robert Lane
Marty Hudzik
Lee Faulkner
Nathan Brendan Masters
Bill Southworth
Jarred Land
Steev Dinkins

FYI, Jarred Land has also switched to the Mac specifically to use FCP with the HVX, so that's another one for the list...

barry get to work
 

barry-

i don't want to see these late nite posts (1:07am indeed!)

at that hour, i'm hoping/wishing that u were putting your efforts to the upcoming (say its so) hvx200 users book!

i've said it previously...

and it is worth repeating...

your dvx100 book was THE best guide for me to get the most out of my camera.

now don't take this flattery to heart.

no more late nite trolling on the user sites.

back to your hvx200 draft!

be well

(and i hope u are smiling)

rob katz
harvest films

That's amazing.

Which Mac did he buy?

I'm not sure what propagand you're reading, but there are several BluRay announcements that claim players in the $500 and under range. The PS3 is expected to be $499 and will be a full featured BluRay player, not to mention a rather powerful game console. I've seen all sorts of wild numbers in the $1000 to $3000 range being claimed for BluRay players and none of them are substantial, most are marketing fud being spread by the HD-DVD crowd. Sony has already stated that BluRay players will be available at a variety of price points with different feature sets and will compete directly with HD-DVD products. In the end, this format war will be won by the disc type that offers more to the consumer.

I thought FCP was now fully optimized for 64bit OSX and the G5??? If this is the case, then I see no reason why it would be limited to 2GB. Within a 32bit construct on the G4/G5, individual processes were limited to a maximum of 2GB process space, within the total address space of 4GB. This also applies to 32bit applications on the x86 architecture in Windows and Linux. Anyway, I guess this is just one more thing to check out before taking the Mac plunge -- if that ends up being my most sensible choice.

...Actually, I'm still on the fence. I should have it all figured out by the time my HVX200 ships.

Jeff - re fcp and ram -

I can't remember exactly when the update was or if it was an OS update - it was some time ago, months if not a year (maybe it was addressed with fcp 5 release). It removed the 2 gig limit to allow it to address 4 gig.

Motion tho' - whole other beast - as much as you can afford .....

I am! I am! It's over 107 pages already, and I was only waiting on getting my hands on the production model before being able to finish the second half. It's here now, so... back to work... :)

To Jim and Derek,

Sorry it's taken so long to answer you guys.

I specifically chose the Quad G5, the amount of RAM etc so that I could have the best operating environment possible for the DVCPRO HD format and take advantage of all the processing power the Quad offers.

With regard to the drive assignments the choices came from two sources. One was that I've always known that splitting up work between multiple drives or a VLRA (very large RAID array) would speed up any application. However, there were many tweaks specific to FCP that came from the book, "Optimizing your Final Cut Pro System" from the Apple Pro Training Series.

Based on my own testing with the Quad G5, after I made the new drive assignments I noticed a significant performance boost, which will most likely get better as soon as a dedicated PCI-e Firewire 800 card becomes available.

I'd highly recommend the book to anyone using FCP who wants to maximize their system's potential.

One quick correction to the post by Walter:

The amount of RAM FCP can use is limited by two things: the motherboard verion it is using - G4/G5 and which firmware it's using - and whether or not you're on 10.4.

On my system, (Quad G5 w/8GB RAM) I can address 2.5GB of RAM just for the application, and another 2.4GB of RAM for still cache, not including the amount of RAM that can be manually allocated for Thumbnail cache. So in total FCP can use well over 6GB of RAM - if you have it available.

Yes Robert - sorry, should have qualified what I posted above. My old g4 tower can only support 1.5 gig max.

No problem, Rob. Learning from each other is what I enjoy most about this forum! And believe me, at this point in my limited production knowledge I'm learning more than I'm teaching/sharing !! (laughs)

heh - getiing around the traps (discussion boards) is one of the err, most productive things I like to do.

Technology is being dished up at an alarming rate - bright shiny products everywhere. Only so much money in the budget.

I reckon I've saved ohhh, around $30 k by not buying a thing in the last month - at this rate I'm going to be a millionaire ... by not doing anything - lol

hehehe...
....Just Wait till Macworld SF announcements tomorrow....

dude !
You're right - ka ching .... there's always something that gets me in the end.

Steve knows this.

I just can't take the MAC route. I am confident that PC programs will have a solid solution for DVCPRO-HD in the coming weeks.

- ShannonRawls.com

Just wanted to see what route you decided to take since MacWorld San Francisco???

AJA Video Kona 3
 

Did you see the update on Kona product line, Kona 3?

Internal HD/SD live hardware keyer is added.

Oooooooooooh. Aaaaaaaaaaaaah....

Well, that answers the Blackmagic vs. AJA debate for me.

And with the added features of the Kona3, it looks like I'm going to go for the Mac+AJA+FCS+Shake for my new video solution. PC solutions are just too scattered and incoherent these days. Rather frustrating, really...

...Now I must try to hold out for the Intel based PowerMacs. I may just buy a new Intel iMac to get FCP up and running with the HVX200 and tide me over for a few months.

Got FCP, just trying to figure out what to install it on. Looks like the new powerbooks and the new imacs are pointless for a "today" solution (which is what I'm looking for) since they won't run FCP for a good few months. And I don't want to go with a current powerbook and see its value plummet when the new ones are out. So... correct me if I'm wrong, but -- looks like the dual G5 is the only rational choice available for a right-now solution, right?