HVX200 & Mac Combo - Who's Taking that Route?
 

I just wanted to see who's using a Mac/HVX (when it arrives) workflow. I've been using a Mac for a while now, and that's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to getting this camera. It seems that Kaku's been able shoot, edit & zip footage and distribute it in a manner that no Mac user has had a problem with downloading, editing, compressing then exporting. This impressive ease of use, along with the colors and overall look of the footage he's supplied is why I'm excited about getting the HVX.

How many other here are going to be using a Mac/HVX workflow?

Barry Green & Chris Hurd, if you buy a Mac, I'll personally send each of you a "Mighty Mouse." :)
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...lm=MA086LL%2FA

I'm gonna use MAC and HVX. Count me in.
Now... it would be cool to have an "APPLE VERSION OF BARRY GREEN" in this forum who can have access to this camera, edit the footage with Final Cut and write a cool book about it.
-EDWIN

Heck, I just read a horrible review of the MIghty Mouse---Why not send them a nice 30" Apple Monitor---If you send me one, I'll buy a Mac! I can learn how to edit on it while en route to Hale-Bopp!

This is one of the major reasons I am going with the HVX-
The Canon seems superior in many ways
but
with the HVX everything goes into my laptop...the work flow is what I am all set up for already...already digitized
smaller, convenient
and with a 35mm adaptor it all still fits on my steadicam rig

cost = 6,200 with a p2 card
that's all I need for right now.

Now, please dont get me wrong, I would rather be streaming uncompressed HDV with a Canon, but
it is not the way I work, nor is it in my budget.

Maybe I can just send you some Nike's... :)

LOL----as long as they are good in zero gravity!

hmmm.... Better make it a pair of "AIR'S"

Now, back to earth.

So 4 people and that does not include Kaku and 3 or 4 other's I've seen in this forum that have mentioned they would be using the Mac/HVX combo in other threads (I'll leave it up to them on whether they want to post in this one). That's really good news so far.

If you have not seen it, there's a post in the DVXuser.com forum of someone using a Stedicam with a woman singing. It's remarkable. For your ease, here's a direct link to the thread - http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=42746.

I wouldn't say it's better or worse than Kaku's, it's just a different look - Which should be of no surprise with the million or so settings this camera offers. In my opinion, it looks like it could be the beginning of a professional music video that you'd see on any music channel (or in these forums, for that matter).

Well, I'm definitely going to get one, I'm just waiting for MWSF to make sure I don't get stuck with an EOL product. I might just go for a 1gb Mini to tide me over until I see how the other platforms shake out, or maybe I'll just jump for the dual. But I'd hate to plunk down for something today and then find out next week that the Mini is now a quad G5 for $800, y'know? :)

I figure that Apple has easily the most robust implementation so far, since they've had a 20-month head start. But I'm also looking at Edius Broadcast; having Thomson behind them now may empower them to make some inroads and I was impressed with their DV Expo demo and their level of integration.

Then there's DVFilm's RayLight, which sure seems promising...

But yes, I'll definitely pick up a Mac something-or-other, probably next week...

In my best Napoleon Dynamite voice -

Yesssss....

It's suddenly got very, very cold here in Purgatory ... think it might freeze.

Picked up a Quad G5 on December 31st ... just in time for the write-off!

Quad & Tax Write-Off = win/win

Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800. It's handled Kaku's footage just fine, actually, better than fine, really handles it like DV. I have not noticed any differences in render times after adding effects from GenArts Sapphire. I'll probably mess around with a little more footage Friday and see how the DVCPro format works with Apple Motion files. The footage is even doing well on my 2 year old dual G5 2.0 and I'm able to work with the footage just as easily with it (I was really surprised about this).

From my experience so far the DVCProHD and DVCPro50 formats (supplied by Kaku) have been easy to handle. Thanks for joining in on the thread Bill.

Nice Bill - It will be interesting to see how rendering and editing will vary on the quad's and dual's. I've got a 6 month old dual 2.7 with 6 gig RAM and the GEForce 6800. It's handled Kaku's footage just fine, actually, better than fine, really handles it like DV. I have not noticed any differences in render times after adding effects from GenArts Sapphire. I'll probably mess around with a little more footage Friday and see how the DVCPro format works with Apple Motion files. The footage is even doing well on my 2 year old dual G5 2.0 and I'm able to work with the footage just as easily with it (I was really surprised about this).

From my experience so far the DVCProHD and DVCPro50 formats (supplied by Kaku) have been easy to handle. Thanks for joining in on the thread Bill.
__________________

Ditto; I also downloaded Kaku's footage in fcp, then to compresor,on to DVD and played it on my linkplayer, to my 65" HDTV. I was amazed how easy it was. I can't wait to say goodbye to 4:2:0

Barry,
IntelMacs on the high end desktops might be 6 months or more away. On the other hand they may announce an IntelMac Laptop next weeks. If it's a PowerBook it might be your answer. You'll have a portable FCP edit system for the HVX and just maybe you'll be able to run Windows on it too.

Lou,
What format did you convert it to using Compressor for the linkplayer? If it's the box I'm thinking of it can handle WMVHD (and JVC is now distributing it in the USA). I'm assuming you didn't create a SD DVD.

Craig,
The final product is an HD DVD 1920x1080i. From fcp5 to compressor, I set it at: HD MPEG 2; changed extension in encoder box from mts to m2t, and chose multiplex audio. I burned the DVD in roxio toast 6.
You are right, it is the same player as used for the JVC. I would like to add that I have heared a lot of negativity about this player; I think it is because most folks don't understand it. Specifically, it is a firmware updateable player. The firmware updates are always important. The thing is that the player doesn't update to the latest update; you need to install all of them to get the latest update. IOdata just released a new update on Dec 27-05. It has further support for mpeg2, m2t, and ts.The update also allows the DVD drive to spin faster to deal with the 19mbs data rate.
Furthur, If you are thinking of going WMVHD, you might have an easier time by printing your edited footage back to the cam and then going to virtual dub to make a m2t

Lou: It certainly will. FCP and Mac are a "brave new world" for me. I have 4 PC's and 1 Linux box in my network ... and now the G5. My systems guru tells me that they will all talk to each other. We'll see .... now all I have to do is learn FCP. I've got another 24" Dell LCD and a DeckLink MultiBridge Extreme ordered. Do you have any recommendations re external storage. I was looking at the G Raids?

Lou,
I was wondering, since I have Flip4Mac Studio Pro I'd either be able to create a WMVHD or create an HD DVD muxed file.

BTW I'm hearing the first HD DVD player should be out in March at $500 and a higher model for $800 from Toshiba.

Didn't know the linkplayer could play an HD DVD file on a standard DVD.

Wonder when and how much first HD DVD burners will be. I'd prefer BluRay but the CES rumor mill is Sony will have a player this summer. Pioneer may be showing a BluRay burner but I haven't heard a price yet. Their player will supposedly be $1800.

You could crush the data rate to somewhere between 6-8Mbps with a WMVHD file and fit more on the linkplayer. Not sure what the quality loss would be though compared to the route you went.

Bill,
G raid all-the-way. Mike curtis over at http://www.hdforindies.com/ just did a wonderful review on them about a week ago

Craig,
What kind of computer do you have, and which software are you using? I'm curious, because I didn't have as good of luck that I would have hoped with WMVHD;and I'd like to pass some of that info on to you; and believe me, I have tried every option known with this player.
I quess WMVHD is ok, but once you start squeezing the data, you'll take a hit in quality.

Nah, buy them the new 30" Dell monitor that becomes available tomorrow. It has superior specs and is cheaper. Some may argue that the Apple monitor is better looking, but IMO I think Apple has taken their minimalist industrial approach a little too far.

I'm planning to order one of these as soon as I can. :) And it will work on my current PCs or on a Mac if I choose to go that route, so either way this is my new monitor.

Sony will release the PlayStation3 at < $500 in June/July and it will be a fully capable Blu-Ray player. They have also stated that Blu-Players and recorders will be priced to directly compete with HD-DVD.

Yes Jeff, i heard that too.

i'll have a stab and say whichever of the competing forces get the most players out there first will win this little battle.

I'd expect the recorders to take a huge nose dive not long after release -
recordable media ? Well, hell who knows -
here in NZ they've been damn near giving dual/double sided burners away - but media is a sad joke. Checked the other day - something around NZD14/disc - just bs. I asked the saleman, "How much for 50 ?"
He looked at me like I was from Mars (which isn't too far from the truth.)

So Far....
 

Thanks for posting.

So far, these are the DVinfo members that are going to be using the HVX200/Mac combo from what I can tell from the posts in this thread, in addition to what I've gathered reading other threads. (this list may grow as I continue to edit it as long as the edit feature is an option) -

Kaku Ito - we all know he's the first one that got it ;)
Derek West
Edwin Hernandez
John Benton
Barry Green
Bill Sepaniak
Lou Squitieri
Jeff Kilgroe
Paul Lohbauer
Rob Katz
Robert Lane
Marty Hudzik
Lee Faulkner

"Fence Sitting" - {pretty sure they like the HVX200 and/or Mac, but not quite 100% yet}
Rob McCardle

So far, these DVinfo members have posted, but I'm not sure if they are going to be using the combo or just posted to help give good answers to good questions that have come up -

David Mintzer
Craig Seeman
Rob McCardle

Bill, you asked an important question -
I've seen a few other members mention G Raids. I'm currently looking into them myself and will post if I get one and what my experiences are with it. You may also find the following interesting -

Steev Dinkin's storage ideas (as of 12/7/05):
Scroll down to question #14 and answer #15
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=53828

I'm looking for the right balance in low cost and high reliablity/quality storage solutions. I made this thread, but it has not had too much activity. I may have not asked my question in the right way, or maybe just no one is sure yet. Regardless, you may find this to have a little info now (and more later) -

Lower cost storage ideas:
HVX200 - Non-RAID Lower Cost Storage Solutions
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57086

Where is my name? (lol)

I was HOPING you would chime in, as I did not want to speak for {or post for} any one else. Kaku, you're the "Poster Boy" for the HVX... and Apple.

Didn't realize I had to chime in :).

I'm also connected with AJA, Huge, KATA, Manfrotto, G-tech and most importantly MOTU. If you have questions in these products, I can do research when I have time.

Add 1 more...
 

Hi All:

Add me to your HVX/Mac user list. I ordered my HVX with five 4 GB cards Dec 1st... who knows when I'll get it.

I have a Dual 2 GHz G5 with 4 GB RAM running FCP 5 Studio. I installed a 1 TB WiebeTech G5 Jam RAID in it to handle the HD material.

I also have a 1.67 GHz PowerBook w/2 GB RAM to take in the field.

Many thanks to Kaku Ito for all that great footage to play with...but I just have to know if the cell phone survived the fall from the pocket of the bike rider? (oh the sacrifices we make for our art!).

Kaku,

Since you have FCP and the HVX200 can you test and see if the firewire out of FCP will stream to the HVX and then output to HD via the component cables?
It should be a short simple test that can put to rest all of this theorizing if it will work or not. I find it hard to believe this hasn't been confirmed yet.

Thanks for all the clips!

Marty

Derek: I definitely have an order placed for an HVX 200. That is the reason I decided to go with the G5 & FCP.

Marty,

The nature of P2 operation is not allowing to do that I think. HVX200's firewire connection does not allow DVCPRO HD codec to go through as stream inspite of being able to copy (transfer) data.

Paul, the cell phone was damaged twice. On Yugo's sequence, he fell on his butt that is the first time he damaged it, and that is when his rear pocket ripped (didn't realize that time) and then for the cell phone whip clip, it fell from the ripped pocket and splattered on the road. The cover and the battery scattered, but it was okay, it worked. However, he just purchased the cell phone not too long ago......amen

add me to the list!
 

i've got an outstanding order from b&h for the hvx200
(and the $6k american express bill to prove it!)

i did not order the p2 cards

based upon barry green's various declarations (thanks again barry) i'm hoping to use my powerbook in the field as the recording mechanism going from the hvx200 via firewire right into the powerbook.

once in the pb, i'm planning to move the footage (or is it now data!) into a brand new dual 2.0 (2005 tax incentive) with a fresh, yet uninstalled fcp suite.

now all i have to do is learn the camera AND fcp.

sure sign me up.

my 1st mac was an se many digital years ago.

be well

rob katz
harvest films

Bill-
Sorry about that. Great! Thanks for letting me know so quickly, I was still able to edit post #23. Actually, I think I'll go ahead and edit it to reflect today's changes so far as well.

WOW, 10+ so far just within this community. That will be a great start!

rob,

I think that will be too much trouble tho.
I took my PowerBook G4 12 inch around with AG-HVX200 and try to do something with it, but I ended up shooting with P2 and copy files to iPod 60GB. The camera is made to flip around and shoot, so something large connected via wire does not make you move around free.
I don't think via firewire you can record streams directly from camara like you can in DV mode, can it? Don't think so. Only way to use HVX200 and the PowerBook G4 is to use P2 card to transfer files, or boot up FCP and transfer files from P2 inside of HVX200, or make the PowerBook as target mode (could be very dangerous, I had to format my iPod to make it work for HVX200, thus not working as iPod at this point) and make the HVX200 as the host and powerbook as a firewire drive.

Only other option is to get something like Cineporter, Firestore or Citidisk that connects to the P2 card slot to do the direct recording.

I'm going to FOR SURE get 1 4gig card and perhaps 2. While I was researching I had thought about just getting the camera and exporting directly to my G5 for two reasons. One, to save money. Two, to see what I thought of the camera. But recent developments within the last two weeks have altered that plan:

1) Seeing Kaku's footage
2) Selling my XL2
3) Reading about Barry's & and a DVXser.com user "SpinFight" opinons on how great the P2 workflow is.
4) Realizing that I can use P2 to capture just about any format I'd be interested in, from SD to HD according to Panasonic's chart. Here's the chart for easy reference:
http://www.thisis24p.com/panasonic.html

I might eventually get more 4gig's or an 8gig, but in my opinion, too many things are happening with hardware developments and pricing changes too quickly for me to commit too much of my money at this early point.

Now that I have two 4GB P2 cards, the space runs out very quick. As not much things I shoot, I'm backing up the data to iPod 60GB very often. So if you folks are buying the cards (not like 2 4GB P2 cards are bundled free like me), I would recommend to buy one 8GB card for now, reserve the slot for connecting a cineporter.

iPod & Cineporter
 

I had not thought about this. Since I may not be the only one and others might be wondering the same. I started this thread where we can talk more about these two storage options. -

Cineporter vs. iPod
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57620

Hi Derek,

Here's my Mac setup:

- Quad-core G5 w/ 8GB RAM
- 30" inch Apple Cinema Display
- (1) WD 74GB Raptor (10,000rpm) for the main drive
- (1) WD 400GB 16MB cache Internal for misc save files
- (5) OWC 500GB Mercury Elite Aluminum Firewire 800 drives (16mb cache each)
- AJA Kona LH for real-time monitoring to an NTSC monitor of the DVCPRO-HD content. (Thanks to Kaku for your recommendation of the AJA card vs. Blackmagic, by the way.)
- FCP5/Studio
- Stereo Sound monitoring on B&W DM600 S3's & Velodyne Sub all powered from a Niles amp
- Peak Pro 5 for sound editing
- Photoshop CS2 for stills editing
- Kinemac for 3D rendered clips

To maximize throughput on the system here's how I've setup the drive assignments:

- Apps and the OS live on the ultra-fast Raptor
- FC Project files, Thumbnail and Waveform cache on the 2nd Internal drive
- Video Render - external #1
- Audio Render - external #2
- A and B roll clips transferred from HVX - external #3
- Stills, sound files, scene extras, and 3D renders - external #4
- Final output for FCP and DVD SP 4 - external #5

The only thing my system is missing is a dedicated Firewire 800 PCI-e card, which as of yet none is available for the Quad G5. I posted a quick note on the forum about the SIIG card not working in the Quad G5 - they did not have a Quad to test with, so their techs are working on creating a new version. LaCie hasn't even mentioned creating their version of a PCI-e card yet. Until one becomes available my ultra-fast externals are being knocked down to less than FW400 speed. I can't tell you how much I hate that.

Now if I can just get the HVX in my hands to start testing... (^_^)

Derek - count me in the fence sitting camp atm.

I'm Mac the whole way -but I do have a couple of old PC's for other stuff.

Still reviewing. It will be months before they release the Pal version, so I've got time.
Love the workflow - a bit concerned about P2 and future technological developments.
Things I read like, PCMCIA may be on the way out, that sort of thing ...

I'm an old fart and do like to look at the big picture and try to position myself accordingly, but that's just me ...

edit: I'm also in the process of planning to build a whole new rig that will be based on the new Mactels. This rig, if I do it right , will carry me for the next 2-4 years.

Considering that we have no idea what Apple will incorporate into them - it's a little grey. Anyone want some PCI - PCI X cards ? lol

This year is going to be very interesting .... money to be made - and lost.

Atm - I'm covered and the HVX would fit into my existing systems well.

I don't know if you can count this as a "me too" but I will be tinkering with HVX and FCP on MAC-MINI. It really doesn't have the horse power but it lets me dabble until a PC solutioin comes out. I am really hoping I don't fall in love with this as I just can't afford to switch over to a full blown MAC workstation right now.