HVX200 + MPIC 35mm Imager
Well I'm going to kick this off very briefly since I need to spend time practicing and shooting, but I'll be posting screengrabs, footage, pics, and info on this thread exclusively, and due to information overload on forums, quite possibly only this thread for awhile.
I received the HVX200 on Thursday and although the price drop thing had me down, I decided to focus on the almighty glory of the situation; I have this unbelievable camera in my hands. I shot some initial test footage at sunset hour before the all daylight disappeared and checked it out and was very jazzed with just simple test. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...ock_Test01.mov There's more footage but these files get huge. That file is encoded at a quarter of the original data rate in H.264, and is darker than my source due to my Cleaner settings. So to race into my story, after being blown away by the bare camera lens, I threw on my 35mm imager hoping and praying for instant success, and this wasn't the case. The short story is for the last 48 hours I've been in optical experimental science nightmare land, and ironically all my tweaks with diopters and junk led me to using nothing but spacers and carefully placed distance and zoom/focus settings. I was able to more accurately perform this alignment last night after having a friend custom mill some parts for me. So cool! I'm realizing this is turning into an Alt Imaging type of thing, but I'm leading up to what is going to matter more here, the image. Here's the folder of present test grabs and future test grabs: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx200/35mm Images after number 12 are with the new calibration. In the screen grabs you can see the sharpness and clarity in HD. I've encoded a downres'd 720 width version of some preliminary footage: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...5mm_Test02.mov I think the HD clarity is very sweet, and the crispness when sized to SD is God like. I know there are many skeptics around who may pick everything to pieces, but I want to let people know how incredible I think this all is, and I have no complaints. So everybody continue griping about CCD specs, P2 workflow disasters, noise, pricing, and other adventures in FUD and unhappiness. I'm F**N STOKED!!! YESS!!!! Amazing, simply amazing. What an insane powerhouse combo. http://web.mac.com/holyzoo1/iWeb/Site/Photos_04.html -steeV |
That Is So Good. Can you make me one of those?
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Alternatively, you can contact Jonathan about the G35 at www.cinemek.com |
Steev !
This Is what I have been waiting to See ! I am on the G35 Line and trying for the HVX (although I am still quite curious about the Andromeda...?) What DOF !!! Finally Someone has posted Beautiful & even dark footage ! YES ! Thanks, J |
Quote:
On with the show!! More clips! http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...5mm_Test03.mov Stock lens shots (24p 1/48 shutter, then fast shutter, then slow mo), encoded at 720p: http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...ock_Test02.mov |
|
Continuing on here, I did a test comparing HVX200 24pa to DV Tape upresed to 720p and even 1080, and I was surprised to see how good it looks. I had to do a double take here. So of course, the DVX100 has a slight lack of res on 16:9 as I can attest to, since I had been more acquainted with the XL2 prior to using the DVX. But now, the HVX200 is delivering an impressive DV 16:9 image, and this makes me totally rethink my sense of what I may shoot HD and what I may just tape to DV25 on tape for long roll times.
My post process would be the good 'ole log and capture, remove pulldown, color smooth 4:1:1 filter in FCP, then upscale to 720p. The image at that point is formidable and worthy. It's not as clear, crisp and colorful as the native HD from the HVX, that is for sure. But hey, isn't that freakin cool? |
Steev
I am totally impressed by this footage!!! I am also excited about 35mm, but it is hard to find HVX footage with one. The Micro 35 footage left me underwelmed anf there has been no G35 footage + HVX yet (Dan's Rig looks like the most equisite of them) I feel the DOF almost cancels the Noise problem - what do you think? also What kinds of lenses are you using ? Thanks and PLEASE Keep it coming, John |
Noise and Lenses
Quote:
Quote:
One final note about the noise situation. Here's an inside secret (okay well it's inside because I haven't really heard it mentioned anywhere). Psst.. everybody... psst... *whispering* the camera.. it does have noise... *in certain situations*. When I finally could test the camera out, warts and all, there is potential for: A) Grain noise in low light and in incorrect white balancing. B) Block noise in dark areas in low light If ya do have noise, here's what I've found. Cinelike D can eliminate any Block noise and turn it into the Grain noise type, with more overall grain in the dark areas. Cinelike D also acts as what I'd call black stretch as it is on the XL2. Compare: Cinelike V Cinelike D I like the look of Cinelike D more though. So I tested if I could generally match the Cinelike V look with Color Correction on Cinelike D. And I'd say, yes, close enough. So why use Cinelike V at all? I decided to keep Cinelike V for my test shots because I didn't want to have to screw with CC on every clip to get the look I wanted. The look I want is Cinelike V for the most part. And the trade off is some block noise in areas at times. *Key point here* The block noise or grain noise is an issue for the picky perfectionist looking at footage under a microscope. The reality is with actual content within motion picture, any noise that may seldom occur is organic and isn't going to matter to an audience. But I think it's important to be aware of it, and if you personally can't stand block noise, go with a different setting and crush blacks later on all your footage. Additionally if I needed more detail out of dark areas, I'd use Cinelike D. Man I almost forgot - lenses. Nikon primes - 35mm f/2, 55mm f/1.2, 85mm f/1.4, and a gorgeous 105mm f/2.8 micro nikkor which produces mere slivers of dof as seen above, and at the end of this clip. |
Steev,
the 105mm f/2.8 micro nikkor is SWEEEET! Thank you so much for posting this ! Keep it up - it is the most hopefull footage I have seen ! BTW: I think you should post this footage to the Cinemek site / J |
Quote:
Just gotta get the device calibrated correctly and working with the camera and get familiar with all the little tweaky things that will be standing in the way - there are lots. It's worth the tweak though. |
Steev,
thanks for uploading these files. Man, I can't believe how tight that DOF is on the 35mm, nice. Question, I'm concerned and this has been brought up many times, but after seeing some of your footage, I have to ask: Noise, and compression artifacts. First of all, I realize this is compressed internet mov files. Looking at your HVX200_35mm_Test03.mov clip. The shot was in moderate light, but it appears to have excessive noise and compression artifacts. Are you seeing this in your raw footage? Is it possible to take like a shorter clip of the phone footage and upload just the raw file? thxs, Steve |
Quote:
Two clips - 1 decent lighting (snowball clip), and 1 with lower lighting and heavily shadowed areas (phone booth clip). Both of these have gone through the flop filter in FCP and recompressed to DVCPRO HD. Personally I don't see much of a difference between these and the original. So the "generational loss" is minimal. I could not and would not do this with HDV. It would not be worth showing you. I'd have to do uncompressed or somethin, and the files would be 200-300MB, instead of 20-30MB. *note* These are about 30MB each and probably won't progressively download well - download to disk. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...4_DVCPROHD.mov http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...5_DVCPROHD.mov So at this point, with everything I've seen, and you've seen, I think we can all agree that encodes for web distribution on H.264 and WMV can't let you critically evaluate noise. It's a nice way of sharing footage in HD, at a quality level that would have been impossible 2 years ago. Most likely I'll be encoding at 720x504 at most for web distribution because it just looks nicer. It's a big stretch to get 720p not to mention 1080p (YEAH RIGHT) looking good for web distribution. Final word (I keep saying that don't I?) - I'm cool with it all. To quote Public Enemy and Anthrax, Bring The NoiSE!! Yeah, y'all come on here we go againn.. |
Perosnally I think it looks great. The thing I've noticed is, the average viewer isn't going to give a damn. They'll say something like, wow those are nice colors or, wow I like that rack focus, not, oh that looks noisey and full of artifacts. I couldn't be more happy with the footage I've seen so far and especially your 35mm attempts, It's truly inspiring.
|
It's really very interesting to me,
I see the Noise, and in a certain way I have to agree with other forum members who call the HVX a medium/high def camera, But... I Don't think I Care Steev, the footage that has been posted is so beautiful. I am inclined to agree with you - bring on the noise. |
|
Hi Steev.
Now that you tried your new LCD with the HVX, what about the difference beetween component and YC? Still necessary? Thanks Alvise |
Steev
HAHAHHAHA You are a funny man. A funny man with a lot of stuffed animals :) |
Quote:
|
Steev, is it just me, but based off your recent HVX200 footage, this camera has the best color rendition I've seen on a sub 10K camera.
Thanks for sharing. Also, it looks like it's capable of less noise once set correctly for the scene. |
Agreed,
Esp the Sunset Clip - NOTICE: The Noise disappears in the darkds when there is Higher contrast and you have some part of the frame Well lit/with strong Light !!! Infact Steev's footage helped push me over the edge with this Camera ! Thanks. Keep it coming ! Cheers, J |
Steev, thanks for your WONDERFUL clips. They're all jaw-droppers !
My request ; * Could you post some 1080/24p clip at original 1920x1080 size ? (with MPIC of course) * Could you stop down the lens to, say f16 or f22 ? (w/MPIC, 1080/24p would be great) Thanks a lot |
Wow, that was my 1st post here.. I didn't realize.
Steev, upon above request, DVCPRO HD QuickTime would be so appreciated ! |
Nice tat! http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...HVX200_026.jpg
So, about 1080, for better or worse, it's not what this cam is all about. This is okay with me, because 720p24N is my preferred mode for the look I want, able to do multiple frame rates, and the efficiency to achieve 40 minutes on two 8GB cards. Check out these interesting comparisons, all from HVX200 to P2: DV25 http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...0_027_DV25.jpg DVCPRO HD - 720p24N http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...27_720p24N.jpg DVCPRO HD - 1080p24 http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...27_1080p24.jpg Now, I'm pretty impressed with DV25 blown up to 1080. It looks even nicer blown up to 720p. Regarding the quality difference between 720 and 1080? It's not enough for me to justify 2.5 times the file size to get 1080. So I won't be shooting any 1080 at all and hence won't be posting those massive raw files either. ;) Quote:
*Added note... I didn't mention why. The reason you don't want to stop down these lenses is that you add noise and grain to the image in varying degrees and at f8, f11, or certainly at f16 or farther, it's a wreck, disaster, destruction. So to me, anything that adds undesireable noise and grain to my image, past the initial nice shallow dof and clarity from being wide open, I can't justify the stop down and introduce noise for the sake of increasing dof. Stay tuned for more eye candy! |
hmm, hence HVX is called Medium Def camera... 720, pretty good for the price of the cam but 1080, not up to par other camera (H1) does offer ;-(
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
And the 1080 freeze frame of the blue box with stars looked good to me:) |
Quote:
*News Flash* I just spoke to Brian at RedRock and he set me straight on controlling dof. It appears that the M2 can handle smaller apertures without artifacting. Who knew? Well the guys at Red Rock knew. Very intriguing, aint it? |
Steev,
Your stuff looks amazing! Thanks for the great footage! What is your process in FCP for color. All your stuff looks so good and I'm wondering in you have a general process. Certain filters, certain settings, etc. I know you adjust for each shot but do you have a general list of favorite settings? Do you use Magic Bullet? Thanks |
Quote:
Quote:
Regarding Magic Bullet, actually I have yet to put any Magic Bullet Editors Look Suite stuff on any of this. Can you imagine! :) I'd probably go there for white and/or black diffusion for sure. And I'd choose to do that in post instead of ProMist filters on acquisition most likely. The camera already looks gorgeous and not overly sharp and video-ish. |
Man that is a mean looking setup you have there sir. Love that Marshall and the 35 adapter.
|
Quote:
|
Thanks Steev,
Thanks AMAZING color for the camera without much tweaking. Another question. You were using primes on the 35mm adapter stuff, right? I noticed a fair amount of breathing when you pulled focus. I thought that lens breathing only occured with a zoom lens. I'm not a photography nut, so I don't know a ton, but I thought there was no lens breathing when pulling focus with prime lens. I guess I'm wrong though? You need cine lens? |
Quote:
My thoughts are: A) My shots in an edit won't last longer than 3 seconds B) So the audience won't care C) I can dolly or jib the shot to add overall movement that would make the breathing look intentional D) As we get into this, we start wanting the whole real deal, but remember, this is indie stuff; dunno about you, but 2 years ago I was only putzing around with a Canon GL1. So all of this is a Quantum Leap ahead. |
steppy footage
Steev,
Your demos has had a huge impact in my decision making of buying this cam. I found however the slow motion demo way too steppy *basket ball match*. I hope it has more to do with codec issues etc. Great contribution. |
Quote:
In short, I'd say, if you have enough light, or not too much light, or the means to control it through filters or light control, you can get the look you're after with the HVX. It's amazingly variable. You'll notice a number of tests so far with high shutter speed, since I was curious how it looks, and how DVCPRO HD handles highly unique frames that high shutter speed results in. |
Another test for how DVCPRO HD handles complex motion:
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/hvx20...ock_Test09.mov |
Steev... dude... did the polar bear get ahold of your camera or something? :)
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 PM. |
DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network