Filming footage projected on a movie screen at DVinfo.net

Adam Sheridan · April 15th, 2006, 12:45 PM

Hello,
I am shooting a music video, and much of it will take place in a movie theatre, in which other footage we've shot is projected on the screen. Its important for the concept of the video that we are able to film the projection screen and the video being projected on it.
This is a standard size movie theatre, slightly smaller than average screen, and the footage will be projected from a dvd thru the movie theatre's dvd projector in the booth.

It would be helpful if anyone can suggest settings, techniques, or things to consider while:
1. filming the footage to be projected
2. editing/post-producing the footage to be projected
3. filming the projected movie on the screen.

Mostly i'm concerned with #3 - are there any particular settings or techniques i should be using to get the best possibly image quality when shooting a movie screen? Again, i'm actually filming footage that is projected on a movie screen. This is a paper/cloth standard movie screen, it is not a large flat panel tv or anything.

we're shooting on the hvx200 to mini dv tape in 24pa mode (unless someone would advise against that)
any advice is appreciated.

Phil Hover · April 15th, 2006, 02:46 PM

If I were you, I would replace the theater footage with After Effects and composite in the new footage over the screen. Matching the lighting with the projected image and your characters can be a real problem.

Part of the trouble comes in when you sync the footage from what you are projecting with what you are recording - often times if they are out of sync, you will get a flicker off the movie screen. When we do this kind of stuff with film, you run the projector at different rates until you get the two in sync and go with that. But lighting can still be a problem and doing it post often works better.

But, if you have any moving shots, you will have to track the motion to get the movie screen and the footage you want to put in to match.

Earl Thurston · April 15th, 2006, 03:30 PM

This situation is unique in that it's not a traditional film projector but a digital projector. You shouldn't have any problem with flicker if it's either an LCD or 3-DLP projector. (Most large venue projectors are one of these types.) If it's a smaller single DLP projector, however, you may have flicker problems from the rotating colour wheel in the projector (the image will flicker between red, green and blue).

The next consideration is colour temperature. Projectors are often on the blue side, so chances are your lighting units for the theater will need to be daylight balanced.

Finally, spill supression will be the next major factor. You may have a difficult time getting the balance right between your subjects in the theater while avoiding washing out the screen. Plan to bring some flags, very directional key lights, and only small fill lights (best with egg crates).

Bob Gundu · April 16th, 2006, 04:15 PM

Here is a video were the image was composited on the screen (in the second half of the video). They tried to project in the theater but it wasn't very bright.

http://10framehandles.com/movies/In_Flight_saftey.mov

Andrew McCarrick · April 16th, 2006, 06:41 PM

If your going to composite why not just drop a Blue/Green Screen over the movie screen? Would it not make things easier? In post all you'd have to do in post is pull out the blue/green screen and realign the footage you want on the screen so it matches the angle of the screen for each shot. (You could use some markers and Matchmover to take care of finding the perfect angle and matching any movement in the shoot.) Instead of having to try and put in a composite over the screen and then having to cut out parts of the composite if you have people infront of the movie screen.

Phil Hover · April 17th, 2006, 12:04 AM

The white of the screen will actually work in this situation.

Adam Sheridan · April 18th, 2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Gundu

Here is a video were the image was composited on the screen (in the second half of the video). They tried to project in the theater but it wasn't very bright.

http://10framehandles.com/movies/In_Flight_saftey.mov

thanks for the advice everyone. there are some moving shots so i was hoping to avoid adding the image to the screen in post. But more so the footage being projected needs that old 1950's movie feel.

bob, do you know what kind of projector was used for that video you posted?
i'm using a 5200 lumen projector.

a side question - anyone know if the 5200 in '5200 lumen projector' refers to the color temperature?

Earl Thurston · April 18th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Sheridan

a side question - anyone know if the 5200 in '5200 lumen projector' refers to the color temperature?

That would be a reference to the brightness, not colour temperature.

April 15th, 2006, 12:45 PM	#1
Adam Sheridan Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Red Bank, NJ Posts: 2	Filming footage projected on a movie screen Hello, I am shooting a music video, and much of it will take place in a movie theatre, in which other footage we've shot is projected on the screen. Its important for the concept of the video that we are able to film the projection screen and the video being projected on it. This is a standard size movie theatre, slightly smaller than average screen, and the footage will be projected from a dvd thru the movie theatre's dvd projector in the booth. It would be helpful if anyone can suggest settings, techniques, or things to consider while: 1. filming the footage to be projected 2. editing/post-producing the footage to be projected 3. filming the projected movie on the screen. Mostly i'm concerned with #3 - are there any particular settings or techniques i should be using to get the best possibly image quality when shooting a movie screen? Again, i'm actually filming footage that is projected on a movie screen. This is a paper/cloth standard movie screen, it is not a large flat panel tv or anything. we're shooting on the hvx200 to mini dv tape in 24pa mode (unless someone would advise against that) any advice is appreciated.

April 16th, 2006, 06:41 PM	#5
Andrew McCarrick Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey, USA Posts: 28	If your going to composite why not just drop a Blue/Green Screen over the movie screen? Would it not make things easier? In post all you'd have to do in post is pull out the blue/green screen and realign the footage you want on the screen so it matches the angle of the screen for each shot. (You could use some markers and Matchmover to take care of finding the perfect angle and matching any movement in the shoot.) Instead of having to try and put in a composite over the screen and then having to cut out parts of the composite if you have people infront of the movie screen. Last edited by Andrew McCarrick; April 17th, 2006 at 12:39 AM.

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April 15th, 2006, 02:46 PM	#2
Phil Hover Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Costa Mesa, The OC, CA Posts: 87	If I were you, I would replace the theater footage with After Effects and composite in the new footage over the screen. Matching the lighting with the projected image and your characters can be a real problem. Part of the trouble comes in when you sync the footage from what you are projecting with what you are recording - often times if they are out of sync, you will get a flicker off the movie screen. When we do this kind of stuff with film, you run the projector at different rates until you get the two in sync and go with that. But lighting can still be a problem and doing it post often works better. But, if you have any moving shots, you will have to track the motion to get the movie screen and the footage you want to put in to match.

April 15th, 2006, 03:30 PM	#3
Earl Thurston Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Burnaby & Maple Ridge BC Posts: 289	This situation is unique in that it's not a traditional film projector but a digital projector. You shouldn't have any problem with flicker if it's either an LCD or 3-DLP projector. (Most large venue projectors are one of these types.) If it's a smaller single DLP projector, however, you may have flicker problems from the rotating colour wheel in the projector (the image will flicker between red, green and blue). The next consideration is colour temperature. Projectors are often on the blue side, so chances are your lighting units for the theater will need to be daylight balanced. Finally, spill supression will be the next major factor. You may have a difficult time getting the balance right between your subjects in the theater while avoiding washing out the screen. Plan to bring some flags, very directional key lights, and only small fill lights (best with egg crates). __________________ Earl R. Thurston, Stargate Connections Inc. Made with GY-HD100: The Container Adventures: The Rescue

April 16th, 2006, 04:15 PM	#4
Bob Gundu New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 13	Here is a video were the image was composited on the screen (in the second half of the video). They tried to project in the theater but it wasn't very bright. http://10framehandles.com/movies/In_Flight_saftey.mov

April 17th, 2006, 12:04 AM	#6
Phil Hover Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Costa Mesa, The OC, CA Posts: 87	The white of the screen will actually work in this situation.