JTL Everlight kit

Wayne Orr · May 10th, 2003, 01:31 AM

As the original booster of the Everlight Kit, I would like to say........ I agree with Bryan "The Beaser" Beasligh. I would have tried to talk you out of the Lowel "Creator," (modest little name. Do they spell it with a capital "C"?) but that's another thread. Since you are at least half way there, get the speed ring and the Photoflex, medium, and you are good to go. If you had to build the Photoflex combination from the ground up you would be paying over $360 for one unit, versus the three (somewhat less quality) Everlights in a carry case (which Will hates). You will be putting that Tota to the absolute best use possible, unless of course, you wanted to start a fire, but I digress.

And you can always get a twelve volt bulb for the Omni and use it for an emergency work light for your car.

Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Matt Pope · May 10th, 2003, 01:43 AM

I've been using an umbrella on the Tota - so you guys are saying I should get a Photoflex to use with the Tota instead? I've been thinking I need another "soft" light in addition to the Tota I have - doing this would still just leave me with 1 soft light source, right?

Is there a balance somewhere here - a way to get another light source (maybe even another Tota?) to go along with what I've got already? Or does that leave me back at the Rifa?

It just seemed like people were raving over the value of the Everlight kit, so I thought it may be a better use of the $500 than the Rifa...

thanks for the suggestions...

Wayne Orr · May 10th, 2003, 02:24 AM

You are in a bit of a different situation. The only item you have is the Tota light, which is only about an eighty dollar item. You would need to spend probably another $260.00 to get a speed ring, Photoflex, and better stand. The three softbox Everlight kit is OK, but what to do with the left over Tota? Probably the best bet is to use it as a bounce light, to provide fill on the side of the face or to help light a room with good ambient light. Use the umbrella for your short-film send up of "Singin' In the Rain."

Frank Granovski · May 10th, 2003, 03:16 AM

>As the original booster of the Everlight Kit, I would like to say........ I agree with Bryan "The Beaser" Beasligh.<

?

Matt Pope · May 10th, 2003, 09:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : You are in a bit of a different situation. The only item you have is the Tota light, which is only about an eighty dollar item. You would need to spend probably another $260.00 to get a speed ring, Photoflex, and better stand. -->>>

Either I'm getting confused, or I'm confusing you! What do you mean "the only item you have is the Tota light"? I've also got a Pro Light and an Omni light, along with all the barn doors, gel frames/gels, scrims, etc. Also, the Tota is a $150 list light (about $130 at B&H with lamp). Finally, why do I need a better stand? I pieced together the kit instead of buying the kit the way Lowel sells it specifically so I could get better Bogen stands - which I did...

<<<-- The three softbox Everlight kit is OK, but what to do with the left over Tota? -->>>

I wasn't considering the Tota to be "leftover", especially since it doesn't sound like the JTL kit is as great as it could be. In fact, I specifically decided to NOT buy the JTL kit and to go with the Lowel because I felt the Lowel has more range/possibilities, a better quality reputation, and a better variety of hard and soft light sources. So if anything, I was thinking "hmm.. maybe I should get the JTL kit as a complement to the primary Lowel lights. Maybe I don't need 3 of them, but if they're selling a 3-light softbox kit for the same price that my 1-light Lowel softbox (Rifa) is going to cost, why not get it instead." I was assuming one or two of the JTL's would be "leftover", not my Lowel lights.

<<<-- Probably the best bet is to use it as a bounce light, to provide fill on the side of the face or to help light a room with good ambient light. Use the umbrella for your short-film send up of "Singin' In the Rain." -->>>

Are you saying the Tota/Umbrella combination is useless? I certainly wasn't hearing this opinion when I was researching before I bought.

Maybe you can help me figure out where I'm getting confused. Has anyone actually USED the Rifa to tell me the difference between that and the Tota/Photoflex combo?

Bryan Beasleigh · May 10th, 2003, 10:55 AM

I haven't used the rifa. i looked at it but decided not to because I got better bang for my buck with the photoflex and Tota.

The Rifa lamps are expensive and not as easy to buy. The Tota lamp range is greater, cheaper and easier to find

You could use the omni with your umbrella but i'll bet that once you get a softbox that umbrella will stay on the shelf.

A lttle side note here. Some lamps provide an umbrella clamp hole either on the lamp or the yoke. the lamp swivel or the yoke locking screws will not do an adequate job of keeping the weight aloft. Spend $20 on a lobo clamp. It's also better to use speed rings to mount lamps uin a softbox rather than mounting the speed ring to the lamp. The locking collarts on the yokes of lights like the ianiro or even the arri are really stressed by the weight of all that crap hanging off them

In fairness we should really start a new thread as this one was intended for the JTL Everlight and the folks asscociated with the topic have put a whole lot of effort into it.

Thanks
Bryan

Will Fastie · May 10th, 2003, 12:15 PM

Matt, if you're looking for some softboxes to flesh out your kit and those softboxes are going to be "second" in your kit, you will simply not get a better bang for the buck than the JTL kit.

All my research focused on getting enough difuse but appropriate light for my situation, which is a lot of inside shooting in close surroundings. For me, the JTL kit is proving its worth as a primary system.

Matt Pope · May 10th, 2003, 12:21 PM

Good point Bryan - I didn't mean to hijack the thread... I'm afraid I'm not sure how to link on here, but below is the link for the new thread I started.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=9498

Feel free to join me there if you have any more advice for me...

Thanks!

Wayne Orr · May 10th, 2003, 02:23 PM

Sorry for contributing to the confusion, Matt. I was winding down after working a twelve hour day that seemed longer at about two in the morning, and I confused you with two people, or something like that. Anyway, knowing my bias against Lowel lights, I am just going to withdraw from your discussion. And yes, a Tota costs $109. Mea culpa.

Bulletin: I just wanted to post a response that was on another forum where I was trying to convince another young fellow who was in the market for some lighting gear to take a look at the JTL kit, and I was getting some spirited opposition from another writer. Anyway, here's a brief comment from the young man looking for lighting:

"I went to Reseda Photo and took a look at the Everlight kit. I was driving over there thinking this kit was gonna be cheap and that if my cat leaned on the tripod it would fall over, etc... I walked in and was very suprised to see these (3) very well built lights with stands that looked stonger and more sturdy then the Arri stands. I was very impressed and walked out with a kit. Thanks Wayneor!"

I thought this fellow was in the "starving student" category, but it turns out he has quite a bit of money to throw around. If I had known that, I might have pointed him in other directions, but for those on a limited budget, I still believe the JTL Everlight Kit is a good way to get into lighting for $500.00.

Matt Pope · May 10th, 2003, 05:04 PM

No problem Wayne - I understand that some people just don't like certain equipment. The Lowel lights that I have have worked well for me so far, it's just that I'm still in need of a primary soft source (to replace the umbrella).

My lighting budget right now came out to about $1500 (which is why I didn't go for the Arri kits I've always rented). In the position I'm in now though, I've basically spent about $1000 of that and am just trying to figure out the best way to use the other $500.

I need something slightly more professional than having only the JTL, but thought it might be a nice filler for the last 1/3 of my budget. Bias and all, if you were me - currently working with:

- 1 750watt Tota (with gel frame/gels/umbrella and Bogen stand)
- 1 500watt Omni (with gel frame/gels and Bogen stand)
- 1 250watt Pro Light (with gel frame/gels and Bogen stand)

... and you had $500 dollars to round out the kit, how would you spend it?

a) 500 watt Rifa
b) Additional Tota w/ Photoflex
c) 3-light JTL kit
d) Something completely different?

Thanks for all the advice... (if you think about it - look for my other thread I provided the link to above and respond in that thread so we can leave this thread alone...)

Matt

Matt Gettemeier · May 17th, 2003, 08:07 AM

It's been a week! Won't somebody please answer the Pope! It would be very helpful to me also!

If you can expand I think my thread "Opinions wanted" basically carries on where this one seems to be dying. I've read and reread this whole thread a couple times because it's exactly where I am at the moment, but I ned mower infooo Captain! Theeerrre's nut enufff tiiiiime!

Will Fastie · May 17th, 2003, 09:56 AM

Matt & Matt:

Matt P., it seems clear that you want to round out your kit with at least one 500W softbox.

With the JTL kit, you'll get three 500W softboxes with good stands and a case. I stick with my original comment, that the JTL kit gives the biggest bang for the buck.

You'll end up with three more stands and three more lights, a total of 6 lights in your kit. That's got to offer more options for you than 4 lights.

By the way, JTL makes a reflector for the Everlights. Because all I have is this kit, I thought it might be nice to be able to use one of the lights for harsher or more direct light, so I bought one reflector. This gives the JTL kit at least some flexibility and expands your options even more.

I'd say the only question is whether you think there is a quality problem with the Everlights. From other posts around here, it certainly appears that PhotoFlex is high quality. On the other hand, I think the Everlights will give me long service provided I don't abuse them.

Will

Will Fastie · November 4th, 2003, 04:17 PM

In previous posts in this thread, we have discussed the color temperature of the bulbs supplied with the JTL Everlight kit. I want to provide an update and recommendation.

The kit as purchased came with EHD 500W bulbs at 3000K. As previously stated, this was close enough to 3200K that the white balance feature of the camcorder produced an appropriate image. Had I planned to use the lights solely for video work, I would have put the issue to bed.

However, I also do some still work. Here I found the white balance problem more severe. No matter what I did, and I tried several digital cameras, the photos always looked better after some adjustment with Photoshop. Because of this, I decided to buy some 3200K bulbs and see what kind of difference they made.

I bought two FLK 575W bulbs from Production Advantage, a source often mentioned here, for $15 each, about $1 more than the EHD.

The difference between the EHD and FLK was immediately apparent in my first application, a recent shoot indoors with sunlight coming in through a window. I first tried to light with the EHD bulbs, one key and one fill, but discovered that the sunlight was casting blue light on one cheek of my subject while the key light was casting red light on the other cheek. Obviously, there was no way to balance this with the cam, so I needed an alternate solution. After some experimentation, I obtained the best shot with an FLK-equipped light as the key.

Certainly the difference between 3000K and 3200K contributed somewhat to the better lighting. However, the FLK lamp put out quite a bit more light, much more than I would have expected for just a 75W difference in power consumption. This helped to balance the sunlight and create a more natural appearance for the subject.

Upon further examination, I discovered that the EHD lamps are rated for 10600 lumens while the FLK lamps emit 16500 lumens. That's over 50% more light for just 15% more power. There is a downside, of course; the EHD bulbs have a life of 2000 hours, the FLK just 300.

I have some further experiments to do with the still camera, but I'm convinced. I plan to use the FLK bulbs regularly, using the EHDs only for situations in which less or softer light is desirable.

We have also discussed whether the Everlight softboxes are up to higher-wattage lamps. I used the FLK for hours at a time. The lights operated constantly. They were certainly hotter than the EHD, but not so hot to cause a problem.

My recommendation is to specify lamps other than the EHD when purchasing the Everlight kit, even if it raises the price a few bucks.

Will

Chris Hurd · November 6th, 2003, 11:30 PM

Thanks for the update, Will -- much appreciated,

David Ziegelheim · November 9th, 2003, 12:21 PM

I've run the EHG for most of the day without a problem. And I've run the 500w with one vent covered to control spill without a problem.

May 10th, 2003, 01:31 AM	#31
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Somebody has been waiting for this As the original booster of the Everlight Kit, I would like to say........ I agree with Bryan "The Beaser" Beasligh. I would have tried to talk you out of the Lowel "Creator," (modest little name. Do they spell it with a capital "C"?) but that's another thread. Since you are at least half way there, get the speed ring and the Photoflex, medium, and you are good to go. If you had to build the Photoflex combination from the ground up you would be paying over $360 for one unit, versus the three (somewhat less quality) Everlights in a carry case (which Will hates). You will be putting that Tota to the absolute best use possible, unless of course, you wanted to start a fire, but I digress. And you can always get a twelve volt bulb for the Omni and use it for an emergency work light for your car. Cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of war! __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 10th, 2003, 02:24 AM	#33
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	On the other hand. You are in a bit of a different situation. The only item you have is the Tota light, which is only about an eighty dollar item. You would need to spend probably another $260.00 to get a speed ring, Photoflex, and better stand. The three softbox Everlight kit is OK, but what to do with the left over Tota? Probably the best bet is to use it as a bounce light, to provide fill on the side of the face or to help light a room with good ambient light. Use the umbrella for your short-film send up of "Singin' In the Rain." __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

May 10th, 2003, 09:20 AM	#35
Matt Pope Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 83	Re: On the other hand. <<<-- Originally posted by Wayne Orr : You are in a bit of a different situation. The only item you have is the Tota light, which is only about an eighty dollar item. You would need to spend probably another $260.00 to get a speed ring, Photoflex, and better stand. -->>> Either I'm getting confused, or I'm confusing you! What do you mean "the only item you have is the Tota light"? I've also got a Pro Light and an Omni light, along with all the barn doors, gel frames/gels, scrims, etc. Also, the Tota is a $150 list light (about $130 at B&H with lamp). Finally, why do I need a better stand? I pieced together the kit instead of buying the kit the way Lowel sells it specifically so I could get better Bogen stands - which I did... <<<-- The three softbox Everlight kit is OK, but what to do with the left over Tota? -->>> I wasn't considering the Tota to be "leftover", especially since it doesn't sound like the JTL kit is as great as it could be. In fact, I specifically decided to NOT buy the JTL kit and to go with the Lowel because I felt the Lowel has more range/possibilities, a better quality reputation, and a better variety of hard and soft light sources. So if anything, I was thinking "hmm.. maybe I should get the JTL kit as a complement to the primary Lowel lights. Maybe I don't need 3 of them, but if they're selling a 3-light softbox kit for the same price that my 1-light Lowel softbox (Rifa) is going to cost, why not get it instead." I was assuming one or two of the JTL's would be "leftover", not my Lowel lights. <<<-- Probably the best bet is to use it as a bounce light, to provide fill on the side of the face or to help light a room with good ambient light. Use the umbrella for your short-film send up of "Singin' In the Rain." -->>> Are you saying the Tota/Umbrella combination is useless? I certainly wasn't hearing this opinion when I was researching before I bought. Maybe you can help me figure out where I'm getting confused. Has anyone actually USED the Rifa to tell me the difference between that and the Tota/Photoflex combo?

May 10th, 2003, 02:23 PM	#39
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Sorry for contributing to the confusion, Matt. I was winding down after working a twelve hour day that seemed longer at about two in the morning, and I confused you with two people, or something like that. Anyway, knowing my bias against Lowel lights, I am just going to withdraw from your discussion. And yes, a Tota costs $109. Mea culpa. Bulletin: I just wanted to post a response that was on another forum where I was trying to convince another young fellow who was in the market for some lighting gear to take a look at the JTL kit, and I was getting some spirited opposition from another writer. Anyway, here's a brief comment from the young man looking for lighting: "I went to Reseda Photo and took a look at the Everlight kit. I was driving over there thinking this kit was gonna be cheap and that if my cat leaned on the tripod it would fall over, etc... I walked in and was very suprised to see these (3) very well built lights with stands that looked stonger and more sturdy then the Arri stands. I was very impressed and walked out with a kit. Thanks Wayneor!" I thought this fellow was in the "starving student" category, but it turns out he has quite a bit of money to throw around. If I had known that, I might have pointed him in other directions, but for those on a limited budget, I still believe the JTL Everlight Kit is a good way to get into lighting for $500.00. __________________ Wayne If it was easy, they'd get a relative to do it.

November 4th, 2003, 04:17 PM	#43
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Update on Bulbs for the Everlight Kit In previous posts in this thread, we have discussed the color temperature of the bulbs supplied with the JTL Everlight kit. I want to provide an update and recommendation. The kit as purchased came with EHD 500W bulbs at 3000K. As previously stated, this was close enough to 3200K that the white balance feature of the camcorder produced an appropriate image. Had I planned to use the lights solely for video work, I would have put the issue to bed. However, I also do some still work. Here I found the white balance problem more severe. No matter what I did, and I tried several digital cameras, the photos always looked better after some adjustment with Photoshop. Because of this, I decided to buy some 3200K bulbs and see what kind of difference they made. I bought two FLK 575W bulbs from Production Advantage, a source often mentioned here, for $15 each, about $1 more than the EHD. The difference between the EHD and FLK was immediately apparent in my first application, a recent shoot indoors with sunlight coming in through a window. I first tried to light with the EHD bulbs, one key and one fill, but discovered that the sunlight was casting blue light on one cheek of my subject while the key light was casting red light on the other cheek. Obviously, there was no way to balance this with the cam, so I needed an alternate solution. After some experimentation, I obtained the best shot with an FLK-equipped light as the key. Certainly the difference between 3000K and 3200K contributed somewhat to the better lighting. However, the FLK lamp put out quite a bit more light, much more than I would have expected for just a 75W difference in power consumption. This helped to balance the sunlight and create a more natural appearance for the subject. Upon further examination, I discovered that the EHD lamps are rated for 10600 lumens while the FLK lamps emit 16500 lumens. That's over 50% more light for just 15% more power. There is a downside, of course; the EHD bulbs have a life of 2000 hours, the FLK just 300. I have some further experiments to do with the still camera, but I'm convinced. I plan to use the FLK bulbs regularly, using the EHDs only for situations in which less or softer light is desirable. We have also discussed whether the Everlight softboxes are up to higher-wattage lamps. I used the FLK for hours at a time. The lights operated constantly. They were certainly hotter than the EHD, but not so hot to cause a problem. My recommendation is to specify lamps other than the EHD when purchasing the Everlight kit, even if it raises the price a few bucks. Will

May 10th, 2003, 01:43 AM	#32
Matt Pope Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 83	I've been using an umbrella on the Tota - so you guys are saying I should get a Photoflex to use with the Tota instead? I've been thinking I need another "soft" light in addition to the Tota I have - doing this would still just leave me with 1 soft light source, right? Is there a balance somewhere here - a way to get another light source (maybe even another Tota?) to go along with what I've got already? Or does that leave me back at the Rifa? It just seemed like people were raving over the value of the Everlight kit, so I thought it may be a better use of the $500 than the Rifa... thanks for the suggestions...

May 10th, 2003, 03:16 AM	#34
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	>As the original booster of the Everlight Kit, I would like to say........ I agree with Bryan "The Beaser" Beasligh.< ?

May 10th, 2003, 10:55 AM	#36
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I haven't used the rifa. i looked at it but decided not to because I got better bang for my buck with the photoflex and Tota. The Rifa lamps are expensive and not as easy to buy. The Tota lamp range is greater, cheaper and easier to find You could use the omni with your umbrella but i'll bet that once you get a softbox that umbrella will stay on the shelf. A lttle side note here. Some lamps provide an umbrella clamp hole either on the lamp or the yoke. the lamp swivel or the yoke locking screws will not do an adequate job of keeping the weight aloft. Spend $20 on a lobo clamp. It's also better to use speed rings to mount lamps uin a softbox rather than mounting the speed ring to the lamp. The locking collarts on the yokes of lights like the ianiro or even the arri are really stressed by the weight of all that crap hanging off them In fairness we should really start a new thread as this one was intended for the JTL Everlight and the folks asscociated with the topic have put a whole lot of effort into it. Thanks Bryan

May 10th, 2003, 12:15 PM	#37
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Matt, if you're looking for some softboxes to flesh out your kit and those softboxes are going to be "second" in your kit, you will simply not get a better bang for the buck than the JTL kit. All my research focused on getting enough difuse but appropriate light for my situation, which is a lot of inside shooting in close surroundings. For me, the JTL kit is proving its worth as a primary system.

May 10th, 2003, 12:21 PM	#38
Matt Pope Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 83	Good point Bryan - I didn't mean to hijack the thread... I'm afraid I'm not sure how to link on here, but below is the link for the new thread I started. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=9498 Feel free to join me there if you have any more advice for me... Thanks!

May 10th, 2003, 05:04 PM	#40
Matt Pope Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 83	No problem Wayne - I understand that some people just don't like certain equipment. The Lowel lights that I have have worked well for me so far, it's just that I'm still in need of a primary soft source (to replace the umbrella). My lighting budget right now came out to about $1500 (which is why I didn't go for the Arri kits I've always rented). In the position I'm in now though, I've basically spent about $1000 of that and am just trying to figure out the best way to use the other $500. I need something slightly more professional than having only the JTL, but thought it might be a nice filler for the last 1/3 of my budget. Bias and all, if you were me - currently working with: - 1 750watt Tota (with gel frame/gels/umbrella and Bogen stand) - 1 500watt Omni (with gel frame/gels and Bogen stand) - 1 250watt Pro Light (with gel frame/gels and Bogen stand) ... and you had $500 dollars to round out the kit, how would you spend it? a) 500 watt Rifa b) Additional Tota w/ Photoflex c) 3-light JTL kit d) Something completely different? Thanks for all the advice... (if you think about it - look for my other thread I provided the link to above and respond in that thread so we can leave this thread alone...) Matt

May 17th, 2003, 08:07 AM	#41
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	It's been a week! Won't somebody please answer the Pope! It would be very helpful to me also! If you can expand I think my thread "Opinions wanted" basically carries on where this one seems to be dying. I've read and reread this whole thread a couple times because it's exactly where I am at the moment, but I ned mower infooo Captain! Theeerrre's nut enufff tiiiiime!

May 17th, 2003, 09:56 AM	#42
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Matt & Matt: Matt P., it seems clear that you want to round out your kit with at least one 500W softbox. With the JTL kit, you'll get three 500W softboxes with good stands and a case. I stick with my original comment, that the JTL kit gives the biggest bang for the buck. You'll end up with three more stands and three more lights, a total of 6 lights in your kit. That's got to offer more options for you than 4 lights. By the way, JTL makes a reflector for the Everlights. Because all I have is this kit, I thought it might be nice to be able to use one of the lights for harsher or more direct light, so I bought one reflector. This gives the JTL kit at least some flexibility and expands your options even more. I'd say the only question is whether you think there is a quality problem with the Everlights. From other posts around here, it certainly appears that PhotoFlex is high quality. On the other hand, I think the Everlights will give me long service provided I don't abuse them. Will

November 6th, 2003, 11:30 PM	#44
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Thanks for the update, Will -- much appreciated, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 9th, 2003, 12:21 PM	#45
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	I've run the EHG for most of the day without a problem. And I've run the 500w with one vent covered to control spill without a problem.