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Old September 12th, 2019, 10:14 AM   #46
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Okay thanks but what i don't understand is why can't a repeat be used in heightening reflection as well? Why is it a rule that it can only be used in action? Is it that necessary to follow such a tradition?
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Old September 12th, 2019, 10:29 AM   #47
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

It's because the effect is jarring, quite the opposite of reflection, which is usually a contemplative moment, let the actor do the work, you're over cutting.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 10:52 AM   #48
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

This all comes down to C O N T E X T. Just cause it worked in Bonnie & Clyde doesnt mean it will work in your film. How is your film different than B&C? Pretty much every way possible, except that they are both movies.

Conversations with walter murch (or whatever its called, by the English Patient author) is a book with insight into why film editors to what they do, mixed in with some ass kissing and repeatedly having to hear how awesome the English Patient is.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 12:14 PM   #49
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Oh ok thanks I've seen some videos of waltter Murch talk about editing but haven't read that one.

Is the cut only jarring because he repeats a move though or would it still be jarring even if i don't cut on a repeat?
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Old September 12th, 2019, 12:31 PM   #50
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

What do you think, Ryan. It's pointless us explaining in words, if you cannot see any of this for yourself?
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Old September 12th, 2019, 01:04 PM   #51
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

You're the editor, you have to work these things out yourself. It's so easy to compare cut timings on a NLE.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 02:39 PM   #52
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson View Post
What do you think, Ryan. It's pointless us explaining in words, if you cannot see any of this for yourself?
Well in my own opinion i can see that the speed of the camera movent should match in both shots. But i think its fine to cut where it is but that is just how i see it (shrug).
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Old September 12th, 2019, 02:52 PM   #53
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

I'll try one more time. You are over thinking it and trying to use your preset list of rules. What you need to do is consider how it works. I know I would never have joined those two shots like that, because I personally don't see it as a having a point? What was wrong with the first clip that needed the edit to a virtually identical, but slightly different one. It's like those youtube videos people do now where they just have a fixed presenter and camera position and do horrible jump cuts at each edit, making the edit obvious, when to me, the viewer should not notice the edits at all, and they should flow.

I think I have to retire from this conversation, because I've failed totally explain myself in a way you can understand.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 04:58 PM   #54
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

If we're talking about the same cut, it just doesn't work in any way (even as a jump cut), especially given the context.

Remember what's in your mind's eye mightn't be the same as that of the audience.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 05:10 PM   #55
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

[quote=Paul R Johnson;1953215]I'll try one more time. You are over thinking it and trying to use your preset list of rules. What you need to do is consider how it works. I know I would never have joined those two shots like that, because I personally don't see it as a having a point? What was wrong with the first clip that needed the edit to a virtually identical, but slightly different one. It's like those youtube videos people do now where they just have a fixed presenter and camera position and do horrible jump cuts at each edit, making the edit obvious, when to me, the viewer should not notice the edits at all, and they should flow.

Well since l thought it worked, how does a director tell that his mind's eye will be different from the audiences? How do you anticipate the audiences' minds eye?

But I didn't think I was over analyzing it because three things about the shower pointed out to me that I didn't see you so I thought maybe if anything I was under analyzing it.

Last edited by Ryan Elder; September 12th, 2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 05:32 PM   #56
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Ryan can I ask how long youve been at the whole filmmaking thing? Including school. I ask because some of this ability to tell what works and what doesnt only comes with time and experience. A year or two out of school, you may just not have it yet. It took me a few years before I understood even the basics of lighting, even longer before the psychology of composition/focal length/lens choice made sense to me. Editing is even now still tricky.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 05:40 PM   #57
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

I've been at it since 2011. I've made a few projects of my own so far, and I've been out of school for a few years. I've mostly been helping people on their projects to get experience, but maybe I should concentrate more on my own.

I was told by others, that I would do better if I change my approach and I need better scripts to work with as well as better actors and a better DP. I don't know if that's true, but maybe I need those things, to improve as well?

But there are times when I feel I want to convey something, but the way I do it, the audience does not understand. For example it was pointed out on here before, why did I choose a low angle for the near the opening. The reason why is, because the subject is talking about governments abusing their power, and the low angle represents power, from what he is talking about. So that is why I went for the low angle. But people on here, did not understand that I was going for that in the angle, and neither did some others who asked. So I feel I have a mind's eye and everything has a reason, but others are not seeing the emotions of the shots that I feel for some reason,

Last edited by Ryan Elder; September 12th, 2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 12:34 AM   #58
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Having the best possible scripts is always the best starting point.

I knew the power reference, but the downside being you weren't making at direct emotional connection with the audience. This is something that the 1930's dictators were extremely good at, Hitler used to keep his audience in suspense by letting them wait before opening his speech

Compare with this and imagine your dialogue and the references to power and how you have a direct connection with the audience drawing them in.


Even in this old, simple talk by a history don does the same in a low key fashion, although the shot changes in the opposite direction and not as tight. Lew Grade, deputy managing director of ATV at the time was all show business and knew when he was onto a good thing.


Slightly different approach in "Patton"


Last edited by Brian Drysdale; September 13th, 2019 at 03:46 AM.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 04:18 AM   #59
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

Oh okay thanks. Was I not able to make the connection with the audience because of the script, or was it something else?
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Old September 13th, 2019, 05:09 AM   #60
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Re: Would festivals have a problem with this type of short film?

What do you think? You're the director.
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