Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Looks like June and NO 60p. 485 Euros? Unknown in USA.

Hope the link works. Having issues with my mobile device.

Scroll down to the PXW X70 article.

http://www.jigsaw24.com/news/article...e-high-points/

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

And 4K will be 4.2.0 at 60Mbps only in June 2015 - but there is a little note that says they are "looking to support a higher bit rate in the future"....More stalling for time...

Think I will definitely pass on the X70 now - but will give it a good hands on when I am at BVE tomorrow.

Note: Currently the official Sony UK link is very busy/won't often load as it includes some interesting FS7 (and other cameras) firmware update information too.

EDIT - Adding official link below:

New firmware for broadcast and professional A/V equipment from Sony : United Kingdom : Sony Professional

Also, adding a screen grab of the relevant info on the X70 too.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Looking at those numbers, time frame, price, It makes it a lot easier for me to wait until NAB to see what other manufacturers are doing. That and the lack of FCPX plugin for XAVC-L does not give me confidence in Sony's support for its cameras.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

So we have to wait til June, for the SAME 4k mode as the AX100.... and then pay extra for it??? That's our reward for buying the more expensive camera? That's just a disgrace.

I still totally rate the X70 as an HD camera, but for 4k... this is an insult. They would have been better off not bothering.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Also, a short while back Sony announced that the AX100 was going to get a free 4K 100Mbps firmware upgrade this Spring…if that's still on the table then it puts this X70 announcement (re sticking with 60Mbps with their 4K offering in June) even more to shame!!!

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

So, despite that this appears to be the same 4k as the AX100, I'm wondering if it will be as easy to work with. They are still calling it "XAVC-L" and wrapping it in MXF.

If it's no better than the AX100 (seems to be the case), and is *also* harder to work with, then that's triply shameful.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

The only upside then is 24bit audio... Wow.

Alright, I guess I'm skipping on the X70 since I KNOW they will be pulling a fast one and announcing a new one that will make this obsolete at NAB.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

The same as the update to the PXW-Z100 which in fact looks to be the same as my FDR-AX1 so didn't expect the X70 to be different to the AX100 but with MXF wrapper. Don't know why it cost any money at all !!! Still puzzled why the x70 is so much bigger than the AX100. A new board and fan would make sense and XQD cards would then allow faster frame rates and I would be interested.

Ron Evans

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

$550 USD for 60Mbps 4k in a wrapper that I cannot ingest? At least if they made it mp4 I could ingest it into FCPX.

The X70 is bigger because it has a massive (good thing!) handgrip with an SDI and HDMI on the back as well as menu rocker controller joystick.

Paul

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Yes I understand and also like those features but there must be a lot of empty space in that handle . Plenty enough room for a small fan and the added depth would allow for 2 XQD slots instead of SD cards.

Ron Evans

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Handle feels hollow, metal/tin with plastic cap on top.....not sure there is anything in there that needs cooling, except my palm on a hot day. :-)

When you start pushing 100Mbps, XQD and SxS cards start looking mighty nice come ingest time!

Paul

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

If one wants UHD at 60P even mp4 like my FDR-AX1 that means a lot of processing and a fan to cool the processors. To stay in line with XDCAm mxf rather than consumer mp4 that would be just like the PXW-Z100 and would also need XQD cards for 150Mbps + .

Ron Evans

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

We may indeed see a new model PXW-100 model based off Sony's new FDR-AX33 which is coming with UHD 4K at 100-mbits. Seeing this AX33 is a confirmed release they may bump the X70's bit rate to 100 eventually. It would seem odd to have an XDCam running at 60-mbit with its domestic cousin running at 100-bit. But there again it's SONY... who knows how they work. Even if the X70 stayed as an HD flea sized camera it offers pretty good value for the paltry amount of money it costs.

I shoot a lot for NRL films. The NRL is the governing body of one of our national football codes. Aussie readers will know this as rugby league. The other night I had to shoot three of the pre-season trial games. Out of curiosity I thought I would try the X70 using it's 24 x ClearImage zoom. I've uploaded a sample in case anyone wants to know how this little flea handled the conditions.

The following footage was shot AVCHD 1080i as that is what the NRL request. For the sake of upload size etc I de-interlaced the 50i footage and rendered it out as 720 50p, 50p to maintain the smoothness of motion that the 50i offers. Basically 80% of the three games I covered were shot using the 24 x ClearImage zoom. It was also all shot at 9dB. I didn't need 9dB I could have shot at 0dB but it would have left me with a pretty shallow depth of field to contend with at 24 x. 9dB gave me an iris of around F6.8 - F7.3 which made life easier than fighting focus all the time.

Also at 9dB but with ND4 switched in you will see a close up shot at 24 x of one of the main stadium lights. If you watch carefully you will see the iris go from fully closed to full open and back again. Just a curiosity shot on my part.

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/8fjyes About 220MB

I think the camera handled the shoot pretty well. I must say going back to the full sized XDCam with a wide angle on today to shoot a dozen interviews with players at the official season launch felt like I was lugging a truck around. I told them next time maybe a smaller camera! :))

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Imagine you are working as a representative for Sony and you have to explain this to your customers. Must be so embarrassing...

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

I think Sony employees may be more serious things to be concerned about with all this restructuring going on...

BBC News - Sony to spin off video and audio units

As an aside, I had hands on with the new JVC LS300 at BVE yesterday. A very interesting and clever little 4K camera that will take a huge variety of lenses and record 4K at 150Mbps.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Supposedly someone was told at the Sony booth at BVE that the 4K upgrade is free unless you need 25p.

If this is true, I don't know if that translates into 24p in the states costing but 30p being free.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

24p has always been the "pay option" at Sony, I think they mean/assume 25/30p is free?

Paul

upgrade specs have to be revised!!
 

This specs are an insolence and "wrong"!

Sony tell´s us that the PXW-X70´s "...Image sampling is 4:2:2 10-bit with high-efficiency Long-GOP compression at 50 Mbps, 35 Mbps or 25 Mbps. The PXW-X70 is also 4K ready and can handle 4K recordings with a future upgrade (fee required)."

This is stated here:
PXW-X70 (PXWX70) : Product Overview : Other : Sony Professional


In no sentence 4:2:2 10-bit is restricted to FullHD or anything else, the statement is global for the camera, so this has to be also valid for the headline´s advertised 4k upgrade (that only become´s a QFHD upgrade, I don´t find any 4k/4096 resolution anywhere).

The camcorder won´t be a competition for the FS7, not with that sensor, so please give us the promised and advertised 4:2:2 10-bit in QFHD!!!

Only 60Mbps is another joke as the consumer 33/100 cameras get 100Mbps soon.


Sony, continue with this and you will leave more and more customers! Seems it´s not already bad enough for Sony.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Not sure about German but when one starts a new sentence in English it is a new sentence and new content restricted to the sentence. The same paragraph would imply similar subject only. That is why legal documents have long sentences. From the sentence mentioned in the Sony spec the 4K could be any form not even mxf. ""The PXW-X70 is also 4K ready and can handle 4K recordings with a future upgrade (fee required)."" No mention of format at all in the sentence.

Ron Evans

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Ron, I think the fact that he quotes Sony saying "is" and then extrapolates tat to mean "will be" says enough about that thought process. My wife is 32 years old, and will be a CEO next year. His logic would dictate that a year from now she must still be 32. :)

Paul

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Ron, I'm with you: If the sentence was "Image sampling is 4:2:2 10-bit -with current formats- with high-efficiency Long-GOP compression at 50 Mbps, 35 Mbps or 25 Mbps", than they could bring "4k" with whatever they want.

But here the paragraph is headlined "...4k ready" and the specs follow with 4:2:2 10-bit etc... The german translation on the german website is even more clear (Darueberhinaus...), bring 4k with 4:2:2, and more important, 10-bit!!!

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Hmm, image sampling has nothing to do with "age".
You could sample 16k in three years at 4:2:2 10-bit, but if you're 40 you won't be 40 one year later!

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Oh wow... I'm happy I didn't rush out and buy this. I think I might just buy an AX100, I'd much rather work with DSLRs but it doesn't seem like there will be a 4k APS-C sensor camera (which to me is my preferred sensor after a full frame, and I have not worked with a full frame yet) for quite some time. As for the x70 audio advantages, I do all my audio externally anyways, I'd never use that feature.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

The samsung nx1 is aps-c and 4K. If you don't need xlr, then you are better of getting a ax100.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Rather than compare the X70 ($2,300) to the AX100 ($1,700), compare it to the HDR-CX900 ($1,300). Neither have 4K. The FDR-AX100 is the same as the CX900, except that it has 4K, and that difference, at current prices is $400.

So, for an extra $1,000 you got:
XLR Inputs, SDI, time code, assignable buttons, picture profiles, menu joystick, higher resolution LCD, full-size HDMI, S&Q motion (1-60p), 10-bit 4:2:2 50MBPS, X-AVC L, histogram, dual card slots, a handle.

It also lost a couple things; 720 120p high frame rate, still photos.

Consider this; to get XLR inputs on the CX900, Sony sells their XLR-K1M XLR Adapter for $800. Let's say $650 value since they also include a microphone which if bought separately would be about $150. And this adapter doesn't include a handle!. Don't all those other improvements come at a fair price for another $350?

The added fee for the 4K upgrade seems justified.

Mark

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Actually the Ax100 works with the less expensive. Sony XLR KI 2 which is less than 600 dollars with the microphone. Purchased it.

I dumped the 70. Already had the Ax-100. Same picture quality and buttons in the right place including a wheel for on the fly color adjustments. Perfect for the nasty LED lighting.

Pocketed the cash and purchased the KI 2. I already have 4K and both the XAVC and 4k will be increased to 100Mb/s with the free firmware update. FREE.

I really don't miss the the X70.YES it has profiles, but I adjust in post anyway.

I would have spent 500 US dollars or so to upgrade the X70 for something I already own.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

No you've got that completely wrong - they're basically saying that the next firmware update is free (it makes the X70 'capable' of 4K), however you will need to buy a license code to activate the 4K recoding. The HD warrior article only mentions 25p as he is UK based & we use PAL over here - no where does the statement imply that 4K25 will be a free upgrade.

Sorry to spoil the party for you!

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Can we jail-break our X70's? :-)

Paul

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Just wondering if anyone knows Sony's plans: Once the 4K upgrade comes online, does this mean that all future versions of the X-70 will have working 4K, presumably with a new premium price-point? Or will there only continue to be the current (upgradable) HD version? Or will there perhaps be two versions, a 4K and a HD (upgradable)?

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

I don't think they've announced what they're doing along those lines. Maybe it will be like the Canon C100 - there was a $500 autofocus upgrade for the C100 Mark 1. For a time you could buy the basic camera or one for $500 extra that already had the upgrade applied. But this is just speculation.

Of course now Canon has released the Mark 2 which only comes with the autofocus.

I'm still very happy with the camera, but will definitely wait to see the quality of the 4K before deciding whether it's worth it or not.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Hi Chis - I just got around to watching this, which looks very nice BTW. Natural gradations and no clipped whites (to my eye) for the playing field scenes. Did you use your previously published "out of the camera" profile settings on this (i.e.,the boats in dock clips)? Thanks

-Terence

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Yes, it did look excellent on my Samsung tablet's 1440p screen despite the source being only 720p. The only downside is the playback was choppy but this could be a result of the hardware (Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 12.2") or the playback software (VLC and Samsung Video Player) not being up to snuff. Will try again on my Mac tonight.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Yes Terence exactly the same as the marina / boats footage bar two settings. When I'm using gain up and don't have to cope with the massive dynamic ranges that you get when shooting extremes of shadow and sunlight (soot and whitewash we used to call it in film) I reset the Black levels back to '0'. In these sorts of cases the minute I see 70 IRE zebras appearing on the players skin I stop opening up. If you expose this way with the Knee and Slope settings I suggested you should hardly ever clip your highlights or if you do so they shouldn't end up in a whiteout. The top sides of the players white shirts under those stadium floods are obviously the highlight peak point in the video where clipping could possibly occur. As you observed though it doesn't look like they are clipping and I can assure you if you check the original footage on a WFM you can see it isn't clipping.

The second adjustment I've made compared to my originally published settings and which is now a permanent change is under the 'Color Depth' setting. Red is now set at +4. On a number of shoots I found the reds to be somewhat oversaturated and not representative of what my eyes were seeing. This has, at least to my eyes, also helped to deliver a more natural skin tone range on most human subjects. Hope this helps.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Thanks, Chris. This empirical information is invaluable. I appreciate the time and effort in putting it up.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

I am wondering how they would accomplish a higher bit rate with the current card slot. Maybe they made the slot compatible with the SDXC UHS-II cards, which are rated up to 312MB/s. From a Wikipedia description, it sounds like they could have a UHS-II slot and it will be compatible with the UHS-I cards as well. UHS-II have an extra row of pins. This approach would negate the need to modify the camera's hardware.

Secure Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mark

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

Maybe, but they would hardly need to jump all the way to 312 MB/s -- that's 2.4 GIGABITS per second! Don't forget "b" is bits, and "B" is bytes -- 8 times as much. In any case, 312 MB/s is the bus speed, not the speed at which the card can accept data -- we're unlikely to see cards that fast in the forseeable future.

The camera currently specs UHS speed class 3 cards for XAVC, which is 30 MB/s, or 240 Mbits/sec; so the existing cards are easily enough for a big boost over the planned 60 Mbits/sec for 4k.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

The bandwidth capability of existing cards are definitely fast enough. However, I wonder if power consumption comes into play. Would the higher-speed cards consume less power at 60 Mbps vs slower cards at the same bit rate?

Hmm... if that theory is true, then using higher-speed cards over lower-speed ones should provide a boost to battery life when recording existing footage (e.g. 50 Mbps XAVC)

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

I really doubt it. I think the power usage of flash memory when writing is dominated by the power needed to flash the memory cells.

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

XQD cards are already doing those rates, pushing 4Gb/s. Point being, the UHS-II card provides a significant boost in write speeds and may offer an upgrade path for the X-70 that doesn't involve any hardware change.

Mark

Re: Latest Upgrade Date for the SONY X-70
 

The X70 data rates will be no different than the FDR-AX100 which already does 100Mbps 3840x2160 at 30P with UHS U3 cards.

Ron Evans