New Sony PXW-Z150
 

So, I'm sure we all saw this model coming several months ago. Knowing how Sony has shared models for decades across different markets, it's no supprise at all to anybody.

Forgetting about the IRIS ring and ergonomics for a minute, how does the image quality compare to the PXW X70? I'm guessing they probably share the same motherboard chipset and design?

We know the image sensor is based on the newer RX10-II model as opposed to the X70's original RX10 sensor. But how does that new stacked sensor design improve the image quality or noise performance?

If the price point is reasonable, this could be a nice grab and go run and gunner.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

B&H shows $3,595. Sony PXW-Z150 4K XDCAM Camcorder PXW-Z150 B&H Photo Video

With the NX100 being only $1,699 I would have expected the 30P UHD version to be closer to $2500.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Why did they not carry over and adapt the guts of the Z100 and once again create an inferior product with the Z150???

This makes me very weary of Sony model numbers in the future. They didn't update this camera's body at all from the NX100 so the heat characteristics are going to be equally limited. I wouldn't be surprised if there are HDMI limitations on this camera. In the very least it's priced more competitively and has an SDI out, though I wouldn't be surprised if that's disabled in 4K mode.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I'm pretty sure it's 3G SDI and no 4k over SDI. HDMI will be the Sony typical UHD, 8bit 4:2:2.

It appears to be an X70 inside a larger body, same X70 optics but with IRIS ring. Sensor is the RX10-II.

Heat won't be a problem at all on this camera. Hell, the RX10-II has no heat problems with a similar motherboard and that little camera can even do 960 fPS in short bursts. The RX10-II can record back to back UHD files pretty much endlessly with no heat problems.

CT

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Oh dear - no UHD at 50/60p - think Sony have lost it. Its no use to me I'm afraid - 25/30p is too juddery.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I'll make this bet: Sony will never adapt their camera SD card slots to UHS-II compatible slots by NAB. Guaranteed. (And what I mean is ACTUALLY USING the extra pins to get as high as 300MB/s transfer speed. All current Sony camera SD card slots are UHS-I.)

Instead, a new speed tier for XQD will be introduced and possibly higher capacities for XQD.

Sony may be making UHS-II cards, but none of their cameras can take full advantage of the extra pins in the standard...

A friend also brought up the possibility that using the cheapest available chipset for mass production is the reason why everything coming out of Sony recently has been limited to 4K 30p. The only 60p cameras have one thing in common: They all use in one part a high logic FPGA processor that is reprogrammable. The Z100 likely had this, hence why it needed a fan.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Sad really I was hoping for a larger sensor model with UHD60P to replace my FDR-AX1. This has the battery power and body to support a fan etc but that would have made the FS5 vulnerable !!!! FDR-AX1, PXW-Z100 and the FS7 are the only ones with UHD60P before things get very expensive !!! Only other model is the Panasonic DVX200. I was hoping to stay with Sony but the DVX200 is starting to look more attractive.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Things have been looking much more interesting on the consumer front lately. Not only are the changes less incremental, the costs are often a lot cheaper (due to far greater economies of scale). Unless your work is really for high-end clientele, the justification to have such middle-of-the-road or "prosumer" gear like this camera is not what it used to be.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Here's the official product page:
Sony | Micro Site XDCAM

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Sony Answers Questions on the New Sony PXW-Z150 4k Camcorder:
Sony Answers Questions on the New Sony PXW-Z150 4k Camcorder | Digital Camera Review

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I've been watching for a replacement for the Z100. This clearly isn't it. Total nonevent.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Sony messed up by not including SLOG-2 on this camera. Sony's Alpha division is handing out SLOG-2 left and right. Even the RX10-II and new A6300 have it.

In theory, the little RX10-II will give you signicantly more dynamic range than this XDCAM because of SLOG-2's gamma compression.

With the ergonomics discussion completely aside, it's ironic to see cheaper Sony models carry more high end options than more expensive models.

Sony plays really weird and silly marketing games like that.

The Z150 costs too much for it to have SLOG-2. If they set the price point lower and called it a "consumer" camera, than for sure it would be eligible to have more options like SLOG-2. ;-)


CTR

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Interesting how there's already a pricedrop on the z150 and it's not even out yet.
3595.00 to 3199.00

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I too am looking for an improved version of my FDR-AX1. Same recording specs just a better sensor and I am sure this would be true for the Z100 too since they have the same sensor !! Larger sensor would require a shorter zoom but that is OK. A competitor for the Panasonic DVX200 for at the moment Sony do not have one close. A lower cost fixed lens version of the FS7 !! Consumer version with UHD XVAC-S and pro with 4K and UHD XAVC I & L Just like the AX1 and the Z100 and could bracket the DVX200 for cost too. The Z150 is close but not close enough for me. No UHD 60P its not on the list.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I totally agree with Mark and Ron here. I was quite excited about the PXW-Z150. As I don't have a massive budget, investing in small sensor 2013 4K technology (Z100) is high risk. I was hoping this would be a suitable replacement but with the XAVC-L codec rather than XAVC-I.

The lack of UHD 50p (PAL for me) makes this a none starter. I do mainly videography and need that temporal resolution. The fact it looks 'real' is mostly a plus to me.

Top of my list currently is the Pana DVX-200.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

After talking extensively to the Sony guy at nab, none of the cameras below the fs7,including the fs5, will have 4k 60p.Besides the heat factor requiring a fan,which would increase the purchase price,he said fewer would buy the fs7 and would get the lower priced z150 or fs5 if they had 60p

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Well maybe that is confirmation that the reason is purely marketing not technology. Sony do not have a competitor for the DVX200 or the new AG-UX180 in a very cost competitive segment. They would clearly loose some sales to one product but pick them up in another. Silly marketing. More likely is the fact they do not want to record 50/60P at 150Mbps to SD cards as that would hit their sales of XQD cards. Wonder when they will discontinue the PXW-Z100 and the FDR-AX1 which are the closest competitors but with small sensors that do not compete in low light. I think the Panasonic HCX1000 uses the same Sony sensor as the FDR-AX1 and would not be surprised if the new AG-UX180/150 use a Sony 1" sensor too !!

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I just picked up a couple of these cams for a week long project, opting to NOT take two interchangeable lens and somewhat unwieldy/quirky cameras like FS5's or 7's. The z150 was a pleasure to work with and if you are not afraid of popping in 3db or even 6 db (which is often the case with raising ISO on the FS5 & 7 as well with t4 lenses) shallow DOF is easily achieved. I found the same issue with the DVX200--it ramps up just as quickly from 2.8 to 4+. But it's very clean on both cams, no perceptible noise. We only saw grain at 9db and it was actually a pleasant grain. Gorgeous image, and no tricky loss of focal length when switching between HD and UHD (as happens with DVX200). 30p in UHD is fine for 100% of my corporate projects, which also don't require sLog. The camera ops loved the ease of use, lightweight, and small footprint, in our very small locations. An uncomplicated camera is a welcome respite from the 30+codec/lut/look/framerate options on the FS series cams, which I also have. The smooth 120 slo-mo is just a plus over the FS5's 8 second burst--for $3100, it's really hard to beat and fun to use the z150. It's a great backup to the FS cams, in a pinch, it can grab a shot much faster. And the clear scan lens zoom lens really stacks up a long shot beautifully. I also like the DVX200, but for a thousand more bucks for Log that I'll never use, this was a no brainer.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Where did you get the camera? B&H says it's not available until September now...

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

MicroSearch in Houston.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I'm interested in the cam too. I've read where delays are due to the earthquakes in Japan, but as of now, B & H shows availability on 6/28.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I have read that Sony has shifted some of it's sensor production to it's other factories to assist with shortages. So, maybe they can get some Z150's back to the market pretty soon?

It's my guess that things will be limited until Sony's Kumamoto plant is fully online again.

I would also guess that the higher profit margin products would get the highest priority on sensor stock first?

CT

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

You guys are correct, the sensor factory earthquake slowed production and Sony sent out a handful to its reps--I just happened to be at the top of the waiting list with my dealer. Hopefully more releasing soon.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Here's some test footage I shot with my Z150 last week.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Doug, what are your thoughts on the Z150?

For me, I'm pretty shocked at how muck I like it. That new stacked 1inch-type sensor with onboard RAM seems to perform better than the X70's previous generation chip. That, or Sony's noise reduction processing has improved on the Z150. Hard to say.

For what it's designed for and the low price point it sits at, I actually think it over delivers.

I'm anxious to do some lab testing between the X70 and Z150 next weekend.

CT

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Yesterday I came across this Z150 review where it was compared with the EX1 HD cam from 2008. After the comparison I was very disappointed because this was under serious consideration for adding to my kit to keep company with the AX100 and the AX53.

The other cam I’ve been considering is the JVC LS300 because of it’s interchangeable lens capability and the option to use prime glass which is a real plus. With the intro of the Z150 which has a power zoom lens and the 1” sensor, and given how well the AX100 has worked out, I thought this would be a logical way to go but now I’m not so sure.

My guess is the AX100 will probably be replaced with a new model within the next half year.

Curious what others think about the review.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I own an EX1r, FS5, Z150, X70 and A7S-II. It's true, the lens on the EX1r is spectacular. f1.9 all the way through? How can the Z150 beat that in full zoom in low light?

Really, it's tough to compare these twe models. However, let's also be honest here and state that the Z150 does 4k that allows a powerful 1080 pan/crop window option. (shoot wide and re frame the shot in post...LOVE this about 4k. It's like having two 1080 cameras on the shoot.) The Z150 has 10bit on board and does full HD 120p and has a FAR better and modern h.264 CODEC. Sadly, all of this is WAY beyond the EX1r.

Now, I strongly suspect that Sony is not done with this body. I'm betting that a constant aperture lens model is on the horizon and this model will sit above the Z150. The Z150 body has active cooling fans today,...Sony "might" go as far as to give this new model 4k 60p? (IBC in November?)

EX1r vs. Z150 is not a fair comparison. The EX1r's Fujinon lens is it's strength. But the Z150's CODECs, frame rates, 4k resolution and LCD monitor quality are FAR better than the EX1r. And,....lets face it, at only +3db, the EX1r is already a noisy camera by today's standards. It has a very old noise reduction circuit.

But, yeah...I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the EX1r...hehe.

CT

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

This is absolutely stupid. They honestly don't expect the FS7 to be their new flagship EX1, do they?

The real reason is a combination of their claim about heat, and the fact the cheap ASICs currently in mass production are all 4K 30p. They go for cost cutting for mass production of as many of these things as possible, then combine it with their marketing BS to not undercut the FS7.

They know Micro 4/3rds and 1'' is their main competition, so they don't want to give them the chance, while Panasonic is giving those formats the chance to evolve.

If only they offered 10bit 4:2:2 on the UX180, then I wouldn't have hesitated at all. All formats on the UX180 are 8bit 4:2:0 I believe.

It's the noise reduction. The sensors don't change unless they explicitly market it.

Remember that the UX180 releases in November too. The big thing right now is no one has made an ASIC or FPGA fast enough to encode XAVC-L 4K 10bit 4:2:2 yet. (The closest is the yet to be released Ambarella 4K 60p HEVC chip, the H2, which would do 8bit 4:2:0 4K at 120fps) All the long GOP offerings are 8bit 4:2:0, which is not future proof for HLG delivery.

It's using a Sony G series lens which will inherently have a 2 stop loss over it's zoom range. The Fujinon only loses 0.9 stops at full, and it's already F1.9. The sensor, although good, still has rolling shutter issues. If Sony integrated their deep trenched pixel tech from their iPhone sensors in a 1'' sensor, that can help a lot. They also soon have a 4096x2160 1'' sensor with global shutter for machine vision, but I almost have a feeling their machine vision and consumer smartphone sensor and professional sensor divisions are separate, cause we see barely any crossover.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I'm very impressed with the Z150 so far and I think it is fantastic bargain at $3200. I also agree with almost everything you have said about the EX1 in post #27.

I was (and still am) a big fan of the EX1 and I still own my original EX1 from 2007, but I must say that the Z150 beats it on almost every count except for the speed of the lens. No comparison at all in my opinion. Just the quality of the viewfinder alone is huge. The EX1 will probably go up for sale now if it is still worth anything on the used market.

I also think there are a lot of people who are struggling with cameras like the FS5 who would be much better served with a camera like this. It is exactly the right tool for the kinds of shooting some people are unsuccessfully trying to adapt an FS5 or FS7 for. Seriously, the Z150 will now be my go-to camera for run & gun shooting. This is a super easy camera to shoot with on full manual and still get great results no matter how experienced you are. After the FS7, I think the Z150 offers the most bang for the buck of any camera I've shot with. I just wish it was part of the XDCAM family instead of NEX so we'd have all the professional menus and features of the EX1, X200, etc.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Yeah, the other difference of the Z150 not being in the XDCAM family is it doesn't use BP-U. It uses L series batteries. L-series has no push button level check like BP-U batteries.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Jack, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Are you saying that the battery type is the only significant difference? Because if that is what you are saying then you are dead wrong. The differences between the XDCAM family and the prosumer NEX family are huge. They have almost nothing in common. Everything from the overall menu structure, clip naming, timecode displays, scene file naming and management, paint menus, user menus, all files, gamma modes, quality of zebras and peaking displays, menu navigation, number of audio channels, and much more is totally different and inferior on the NEX cameras.

A camera like the Z150 is very good for what it is, but it would be twice as good with the XDCAM family DNA inside. I'd happily pay over $6K or more for a camera that merged the best parts of the Z150 and X200 into a hybrid. A 4K X320 would be even better.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Doug, lovely footage, very enjoyable to view, as good as it gets, I reckon. Yet again you demonstrate that you are a master-shooter and a master-editor. Most impressive to my eyes however I must say the slow frame rate judder for me definitely detracts from the otherwise excellent viewing experience.

Almost sold me on the PXW-Z150 but I am waiting for the competitively priced 1" sensor version (Panasonic or Sony) that shoots 4k 60p (all else being more or less equal) which I know is just around the corner. That's the goods that will get my next gear splurge dollars.

Many thanks for sharing.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

It's ironic that you say this about the Z150 vs. the FS5. Because, I have been thinking what you have said here for a couple in my on head!! I have used the FS5 in "run and gun" situations here and there and I'm NOT enjoying it for that purpose at all. In fact, after a couple of hours of shooting handheld, I literally ONLY use it on a tripod today. I dont know, I'm just not sold on the idea of "large sensor" and "run and gun" wrapped together.

When I'm in "run and gun", fast paced gorilla shooting mode, 80% of the time, I DONT want to fight a shallow depth of field. Generally speaking, I want quite the opposite. I prefer a deeper focus plane in those situations. (with some exceptions)

If I was shooting footage for an episode of "COPS" and I'm running behind a SWAT team that is raiding a crack house, breaking down the front door and rushing into bedrooms...believe me, I'm taking my Z150 for that and absolutely NOT EVER my FS5.

To me, the FS5 is for beauty shots where you can relax and take your time. Setup your Shogun and record FS raw to ProRes. Shoot Slog and have a nice relaxing day with your favorite primes wide open with that lovely electronic ND filter. Get home and play with LUTs, and spend time shifting and fixing that wonderful Sony SLOG green channel that tends to give us all that nuclear / radioactive looking grass color we all hate so much. Right?..... lol

Sony L batteries? Perfectly fine with them. They are cheap and last forever on the Z150.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Why do some of you say it's not an XDCAM camera? It's marketed by Sony as an XDCAM, it even says it on the side of the camera. Best of all, it has HD422, 50mbps. That's a broadcast codec, one I wish my FS5 had.
I've never used one, but it does seem to be a good run-n-gun camera.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

I think what Doug means is the menu system is based off of NXCAM and not XDCAM, so there's less options than in a fully featured X180, FS5 or FS7.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

Yes, that is what I'm saying. It's great that the Z150 offers the XDCAM HD422 codec onboard, but that doesn't make it an XDCAM because it still lacks all the pro features and functions that come standard with cameras in that family.

Comparing the Z150 to something like an X200 is roughly equivalent to comparing an FS5 to an FS7. Totally different from top to bottom with almost nothing in common.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

It seems to me that Sony has been "watering down" the XDCAM brand and moving it downward into the lower cost market for years. Just look at the XDCAM PMW-100. I think it REALLY bottomed out with that camcorder. Sure, it had the 4:2:0 8 bit MPEG-2 CODEC which was nice for it's day. But,...look at the terrible image sensor that was in the front end of the camera! Sony installed an older CMOS chip in that PMW-100 that was already superseded by next generation Sony Hanydycams with newer back illuminated sensors of that day.

Funny right? A Sony "pro" XDCAM with awesome CODEC combined with an old (top wired) image sensor that many Handycams and NXCAMs left behind two years earlier.

I thought it was a terrible piece of junk and I guess that's why the PMW-100 didn't last too long. (Sorry to any PMW-100 lovers out there)

But, yeah....Sony seems to be widening the "XDCAM" brand into models they might have called "NXCAM" before.

Hell, the FS700r is an "NXCAM" that has incredible 12bit raw output that can rival ANY Sony model....

Sony marketing department. Inconstant, they just make it all up as they go!

Go figure.... Ha!

CT

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

You better hope that it's a daytime raid and that they finish before dusk because I rate the Z150 at only ISO 320. And with an f/4 lens, you're gonna have a tough time shooting for COPS after dark.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

True, but have you noticed that noise reduction Sony has on it? As an EX1R owner I have learned to hate gain as much as anybody. (Because the EX1 can't shoot over +3db max)

I dunno about 1080 but in UHD the Z150 is pretty impressive and when you take that UHD and deliver it in 1080, the noise gets even finer. You can shoot in +15db on the Z150 and it really not bad at all.

Yeah, you are right though, that's the Achilles heel on the Z150, it's slow lens. It's nicely sharp on the edges and on for most of its range but it ramps its iris quick. Also, the endless spinning fly by wire rings are.....uggg. Y'know, something we all hate.

I'm 100% sure they have a constant fast aperture lens model in the works for the next higher model to the Z150. We know Sony built a nice f2.8 constant zoom on the RX10 series for 1 inch-type sensors. Maybe if they make those optics larger they can get it to f2.0?

Who knows but I don't see Sony stopping with this lens.

If they can find a way to get the beautiful EX1 Fujinon styled lens for this size sensor, Sony could bring in a $6000+ EX1 price tag for this camera.


CT

P.s. I do see PLENTY of noise in episodes of COPS. In fact, I might even say that it's the "noisiest" show you will find on broadcast TV. It's prolly the most wildly under and over exposed show too! ;-) "COPS" could be one of the worst gorilla run and gun TV shooting situations you could ever be asked to shoot in.

Re: New Sony PXW-Z150
 

A quick quote from a friend of mine:

"It has the dyanmic range of a wet fart and no slog mode."