Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Well, my 28-135 arrived, attached it to my A7s in it's Varavon Pro cage, and slapped on my Son shotgun and Comer 1800 LED.

OMG........I am regretting this already. The attachment between the 28-135 and the A7s E mount is made of something similar to Jello or rubber, and is also so loose that the camera will rotate to the right if you mess with it. The frame of the A7s is also like butter, the cage will rock front to back, the base of the camera flexing severely. I am afraid to put this thing on a tripod and use it, for fear I will be left with the camera in my hands after it snaps off of the lens which is mounted to my tripod. If I actually deploy the rig, it can really only be used in a lock down for each shot situation, as any moving the camera flexes so much the entire image moves. To describe that better, if you lock down the tripod, you can wiggle the camera and although the lens is rock solid stationary, the camera moves so much the sensor is moving in relation to the glass, and it appears as if the entire rig is moving.

Would it work better without the cage which I need for my light and shotgun? Probably, but then you are leaving the "ENG" behind, and it becomes a limited use production toy. Of course, this opinion is for the camera mated with this "ENG" lens, if you can consider 5x an ENG lens. :)

I will see how the new A7sII with better handgrip works without the cage.......this will definitely be an extremely special use rig.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Paul,
Indeed the A7sII should be better as it has a new more ridged mag allow body and more sturdy mount.
You should look at your camera. does it have an s or j (jello)?

I have and A7s with 28-135 lens. The lens foot is double bolted to a long slider. There are no problems with the lens body flexing when on a TriPod or when held by two hands.

Perhaps you should set up your cage so that it mounts to both the camera and lens?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I have an A7sII on preorder. Big reason I got the cage was to mount my light and shotgun, but also for the handstrap which I felt necessary for that heavy 28-135 lens. Unfortunately, the Varavon cage is turning out to be pretty lame for my needs, the two ways to mount the handstrap either don't allow the right hand fingers to operate any buttons, or they put the grip so far off camera that it's extremely difficult to operate the large lens. For now I am using the camera and lens without anything but the shotgun, no cage or tripod foot. Just hate the flat handgrip on the A7s, feel like I will drop it!

When I get the A7sII, I will probably mount the camera body to the tripod plate, if I can ensure the weight of the lens won't snap off from the camera. I've never operated a camera system with so much play, wiggle, and Jello before, feels like the parts are not made for each other.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Here is some footage I just shot, handheld, just the camera and lens, LED used at the end. This is with the 28-135, mostly shot in autofocus. Not much ENG specific footage being posted, so thought I would put some in this post.

The EVF is soo much crisper and has more dynamic range than the LCD, I will be adding that new ENG eyecup to this sucker. How do I keep nose prints (and snot!) off of the LCD when using the EVF? :)

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I seldom use a strap either now because I now take so few stills hand held.
Black Rapid and Tamrac (Boomerang) are my favorites.

Cameras are not made to support big lens, that is why there are mounts on the lens. Thus the camera hangs from the lens instead of the other way around.

A slider helps me balance my outfit on a TriPod. This is what I use to mount on the lens:
Amazon.com : Giottos MH621 Quick Release Adapter with Short Sliding Plate camera mount : Tripod Camera Mounts : Camera & Photo
http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-MH611-...0_SR160%2C160_

Manfrotto 454 Micrometric Positioning Sliding Plate - 454 B&H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554370-REG/Manfrotto_430_430_Long_Plate_11.html
These also work:
http://www.amazon.com/Neewer%C2%AE-T...bs_tab_pd_tr_3

http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER%C2%AE-F..._7161080011_70

If you get a long enough plate, it can be mounted to both the camera and lens foot, thus eliminating your problem.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554370-REG/Manfrotto_430_430_Long_Plate_11.html
Normally when shooting hand held, you should have one hand on the lens and the other on the camera, not just for support, but to stabilize the shot and work the controls

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Good luck trying to find a better eyecup - sony don't make one and i'm still looking - you are right they evf is way way better than the lcd, especially judging focus - even with a swivi loupe!

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

The A7s LCD is too black, causes me to overexpose. See below for the new Hoodman eyecup, WITH eye sensor function retained. :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1165086-REG/hoodman_heyes_hoodeye_for_sony_a7_a7r_a7s_a711.html

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Aaah now that's what I've been looking for all this time - not out yet though?

Pete

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

giz a shout pete when in stock somewhere got the a7sii on order wex

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Here is another low light ENG scene. The very end is a gain up to maximum ISO. I am having a very hard time focusing with the EVF, might be the loss of resolution from the extensive need for digital zoom with only a 135mm lens.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Are you in crop mode or FF in this video Paul.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

That is all in full frame.........thinking about experimenting with crop mode at high ISO and digital zoom, just to see how much of an increase in noise and grain structure there is. I am finding that the footage looks better the HIGHER I gain up.......so much dynamic range in this puppy.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Crop mode really gives me the reach when I need it and this was a big factor in going the A7s and 135mm lens for me.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I just did some crop mode testing a few ago. The crop mode has a better "digital zoom" than the full frame mode digital zoom zoomed to the same framing focal length. It seems like all Sony cameras, it digital zooms in on the record resolution setting, and NOT the actual sensor pixels. My PXW-X70 performs digital zoom MUCH MUCH better in 4K mode than in 720 or 1080. Your no better off using digital (not ClearImage) zoom than simply cropping in post with a Sony. Wish I could quick toggle APC-C mode.......but really, in ENG, do you really need to be at 28mm instantly when you were just reaching for maximum zoom? Maybe if you were attacked by a Cheetah. :)

I am going to maybe pick up a SELP18200 in the $500-600 range to play with when I find one on eBay.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

The 18-200 is really quite good, I have this and the image is great although the 135mm is sharper but would anyone really notice, I doubt it.
I just want to add that the 28-135mm covers the same length as the 18-200mm.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Just did my first A7s broadcast live shot with a reporter last night. Hooked up my little Sennheiser AVX, so convenient, and dimmed down my large LED to just about nothingness.......I was at something like 20000 ISO? The reporter said that she needed more light, she was used to being hit with illumination necessary for a crappy JVC ProHD camera. One issue I ran into was trying to white balance my reporter.......have to go into still photo mode, really?

Anyway, when I figure out how to edit a Windows .wtc (media center) file in FCPX, I will post the live shot, but for now, what it looked like below.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Thank you Handbrake! Here it is.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Nice job. So it can be used as a ENG camera with no problem.

I like my Sony (A5100) because for a small, entry-level E-mount camera, it can record great video like a professional camera that costs thousands of dollars. I used to be a Panasonic/Canon guy but now, I prefer Sony cameras.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Looks great Paul. Is that REC709?

Cheers, Simon

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

PP5 Cine 1, with a little in camera saturation bump and -2 on the master black. The REC709 PP4 looks a bit too cartoonish to me, too colorful.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Out of interest, how and what did you connect the camera up to for the live shot?

ENG cameras have SDI out to connect up to a satellite truck or a portable device such as a Live U, etc.
As the A7s only has a HDMI connection, did you use this to stream the shot?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

The TVU I have is a newer version that has both SDI and HDMI, so I was able to connect directly to it using a $1.75 cable which I got on eBay with free shipping from China. :)

I don't like the whole interlaced thing, but it looks fine to me.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Custom WB's are one of the most annoying things about the A7's, that (and the inability to assign crop mode to a custom button) drives me nuts.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Assigning crop mode to a button would be a godsend!

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Yep, those two features would be fantastic as a short cut.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

With the A7s, has rolling shutter proven to be an issue in uses such as this?
Handheld or following action...that sort of thing. I can't tell if the issues overblown, or something that needs to be worked around when shooting.
Thanks.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I don't notice any rolling shutter on my a7S. I shoot at all ranges of shutter speeds, but mostly down at 1/60. Fast action, walking around, quick pans, shaking camera around, and I still don't get anything noticeable (to my eyes).

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I can see rolling shutter if I get stupid with the camera, or shoot normally anything that is brightly lit with across the frame vertical lines. For night ENG, it is nearly impossible to notice at all, with just blobs of brightly lit things surrounded by dim blobs. :-)

I am finding the 28-135 to be not as amazing as hoped. The focus throw is much too long for ENG, the servo zoom is utterly useless, the iris, although declicked, still pops visually. The extremely long throw is turning out to be the thing I hate most about the lens........I am so used to ENG lenses where you can get to know infinity and close in, and do a quick twist to be where you should. On the 28-135, you kind of just spin and spin......and spin and spin to find a hard stop. Add to that it's only 5x..........but there are no other FF options.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

My A7sII arrived today. The digital zoom function now has the ability to crop in on the sensor (when in 4K record mode), instead of the 1080p record stream, which means USABLE 4x digital zoom for HD output. My A7s when using 2-4x digital zoom was useless.......it cropped in on the 1080 picture, which looked horrible. This adds very much to the ability to use these cameras for ENG. My 5x 28-135 is now a realistic 20x HD zoom lens. :)

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Really, that's very cool. have you done tests?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Yeah, shot some footage last night, have a pretty shot of a plane landing with the 50mm at 4x, looks sweet.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Here is a little A7sII ENG footage shot in 4K and downrezzed to 1080p. Threw in some 4x digital zoom with the 28-135, since ENG requires use of telephoto. To use digital zoom, it is mandatory you turn off any in camera detail! I added some in post.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

So after a few weeks of having my A7sII/28-135 out in the field, I am finding it to be my "don't go to" camera. It is simply too cumbersome to use handheld (requires two hands and eye pressed against the EVF), or even on a tripod. I cannot pan tilt zoom anything, without it looking very ugly. The 28-135 when used in servo, has an absolute stop, then resume when you enter digital zoom, and if you attempt to adjust ISO or touch a button while zooming i servo, the camera gets brain freeze and controls lock up for several seconds. This also happens on the A7s.

To get usable telephoto for ENG, I have to go into the 4x digital zoom, but in order for that to not be turned into less than SD mud, you have to be in 4K shooting mode. In 4K mode, with HDMI connected, the EVF and LCD go BLACK when you hit record. All these factors are making it very difficult for me to find a scene that I would benefit from deploying the A7sII. I have a JVC HM890 with 100watt spot light, 18x lens with extender,a nd it looks horrible gained up to even 9db, but I can't say the A7sII with 28-135 looks any better if lit with the same light source once you get past 135mm optical zoom.

There is a new TV show called Nightwatch on A&E here in the US. It looks absolutely like it is shot on A7s's. They have some what looks like BM mini cameras attached on dashes, but the general EFP work looks A7s. It;s a cops/medics/firefighters show, and I would say 25% of the stuff looks pretty bad, shaky, can't find focus etc. This show has very high production values, so you know that they wouldn't use those very bad looking shots unless that was the best they could get out of the gear. So it's a trade off between how much effect (shoot in the dark) you need, versus how much crap you are willing to get away with as a side effect. I like to think of it as how big of a wart would a supermodel have to have before I decided to not date her anymore. :)

Full Nightwatch episodes available from the link below, let me know if they look A7s or am I imagining things?

Nightwatch - Episodes, Video & Schedule - A&E

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Found some time to put some more hours (minutes?) on the A7sII. Here is 5 minutes worth from various scenes, all nat light shot in 4K. Select 4K playback for maximum bitrate HD playback.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Well, I haven't used my A7sII is 3 weeks, it comes out with my every night, but it is just too cumbersome to use in an ENG environment, and it's dedicated INTERLACED only broadcast output is in direct violation of my stations 720p60 system. I will have to place the A7sII firmly in the EFP/cine world, as it cannot hack it against even a little handheld ENG camera.

Sony, give us some real servo zoom speed and a servo that doesn't lock the camera controls and maybe I can do something with this wonderful sensor. :)

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Hi.
Following this thread I have to say I am quite happy with my Sony A7s for ENG shooting. It is what it is. A stills camera but with video/ film in mind. I am using a picture profile from AbelCine, and never had any issues with it. The 18-200 servo zoom lens SELP18-200 works a treat as it is powered by the camera and gives me the range I need. I did try the 28-135 lens but did not like it much. Heavy and sluggish.

With the ISO on this camera, I am getting shots I never thought imagineable. I used to own a JVC GY-HM750 with a Fujinon 18X lens, and while that was a great camera it was very heavy to lug around.

I am a documentary filmmaker and with my Canon C300 next to the A7s I have a fantastic package to work with. And at 50 mbps, what more could I ask for? I sold my Sony F3 and Sony FS700 and went with this instead. I just finished a major documentary for the largest broadcaster in Norway, the NRK with the F3, EX1 and A7s. And the A7s was just fantastic.

Below is a test I did for the leading magazine in Scandinavia showcasing the A7s, Selp18200 lens and XLR- module. A total ENG- kit. Pardon my norwegian in the film, but it gives you an overview of what the camera can do. The battery life could be a lot better though, but spare batteries are quiet cheap compared to other video/ film cameras.

SRS Media : Test av Sony A7s

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Looks great Svein,

I also use the same lens along with the 28-135mm Sony. Hey what picture profile did you use in the video link you provided.

Cheers

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Hi Simon and thank you.

Glad you liked it.

I am using a picture profile from Abel Cine and I have never looked back:

JR45Cine is a match to our original custom look for the VariCam and is designed to give you pleasing colors and good dynamic range. We used Cine 1 gamma for a nice amount of range, but this profile is not so flat that you need a lot of post correction. In a bright, high contrast scene, you may choose to go with S-Log2 for more range in the highlights. Here are the settings:

Gamma: Cine 1
Color Mode: Still
Saturation: -2
Color Depth: R: +2 , C: -4

Sony a7S Scene Files from AbelCine | CineTechnica

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

The 28-135 Cine is the only Sony Lens I even like with my A7s.

Why would anyone shoot with the DX 18-200?
It does not even have a fixed aperture.
It is lighter but certainly not faster.
And it powered by the Camera, that wimpy battery may last 15 minutes.

I do shoot from a TriPod in poor/low light only so maybe that make the difference for me.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Thanks Svein.

Yes the 28-135mm is heavy and when I have a cage, audio on this rig the whole setup is heavy.