Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Hello,

I've been using Sony AX2000 camcorder and Canon 600d for years.

The AX2000 is a semi-professional camcorder and it's an awesome all around camera. I've been using this camera for interviews, live events and similar, because it has proper audio inputs (xlrs), great auto-focus and focal range and basically everything you need out of the box to shoot basically anything.

Because I also make music videos, I wanted something that can shoot beautiful film like videos, because AX2000 isn't great for this considering the sensor size, so I bought a 600d and a set of samyang/rokinon primes (16mm f2, 35mm f1.4 and 85mm 1.4).

The problem is that my AX2000 is 4 years old, and my 600d is 2 years old. The motor in AX2000 lens died and the replacement cost me 400 euros!! The camera works normally now but you know that with today's electronics when they start breaking down they don't stop, it's just a matter of time when something else breaks.

So I need a replacement for the sony ax2000, but the cheapest camera that has all these capabilities is Sony HXR-NX3 which costs 3000 euros... Now that is a lot of money to pay for something that is just a replacement and doesn't provide anything new and awesome..

So I figured out, since my 600d is also already heavily used, why not buy some new amazing camera body instead of a camcorder.

Can the a7s or some other new dslr really be adapted to be used, if needed, as an ENG style camera or as a camcorder??

I MUST have some add on or device with pro audio recording capabilities (recorded on camera, not separately) with xlr inputs,
and I need a zoom lens with decent focal range that has good stabilization and, paired with a camera, is able to provide at least usable auto-focus capabilities. Also I would like to be able to change aperture smoothly while shooting.

Thanks,
Mladen

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

the A7S would not give you XLR in any way.... You'll Always need an external recorder to properly reocrd audio.

What about the Sony PXW-X70?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I've been looking a lot about that camera and wasn't too impressed. The f 2.8 maximum aperture is not that great, plus it has one ring. Here where I am it costs 2500 euro. The NX3 provides a lot more for additional 500 euro.

About adapting dslrs, I know I need an external recorder and a zoom lens that is good for video, but which ones?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Forget about dslr like camera's if you want eng like functionality, a camera like a c100 might come close but doesn't have a powered variable speed zoom lens with all iris, zoom and focus ring on a lens where they belong. They all will need some kind of extra rig to make them easy to shoot stable and continuously while handholding. Also if you need good autofocus then a regular camcorder is still the best option.

It looks to me you really want a videocamera which can provide you with the shallow dof of a full frame camera and the low light sensitivity of a a7s and that doesn't exist.

There is always some kind of trade of, which is why you probably always will end up having 2 camera's, a videocamera and a dslr depending on the type of work you do.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

You can add XLR inputs by using either the XLR-K1M or the XLR-K2M audio blocks that plug into the Multi-Interfact shoe.

You'd still need to rig it up somewhat to make it usable in ENG settings.

An EA50, FS100 or maybe the new FS7 would probably be a better choice unless you main goal is extreme low light shooting.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I know I will need a rig.
I've been researching and there are plenty of solutions for audio
from juicedLink | Homepage Title and Audio Adapters & Recording Equipment for Camcorders | Beachtek

As for the lens, Sony G lenses are praised all around. For example, the E PZ 18-105mm F4 G OSS Power Zoom Lens looks really good in this video It's not very expensive, and it's for aps-c which is also OK because I wouldn't use full frame for run & gun anyway, besides I have full frame primes.

The problem is, all of this, I don't have access to rent and try, I can only buy from abroad and hope for the best. That is the reason I need feedback from anyone who has used these audio devices and lenses.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

This is an A7S setup I use for R+G. Parts include:

Sennheiser Shotgun
Movcam Cage with rail risers
Jag35 rails
Jag35 grip
jag35 railblock (for SmallHD)
Short rail (mounting the grip and SmallHD)
JuicedLink Riggy micro RM202 (should have bought the RM222)
Chinese no-name adjustable lens support
SmallHD DP4
In pictures: LEA4 with Tamron SP f/2.8 24-70

Mounted on slider:
http://www.drivingsports.com/wp-cont...S-Edelkone.jpg

Packed in case, ready to shoot:
http://www.drivingsports.com/wp-cont...2/A7S-Case.jpg

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Thanks Ryan!

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

What about a Sony FS100? Dirt cheap now, and everything you're looking for.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I am interested in acquiring an A7s for doing broadcast on air live shots for news. I currently use my personal Sony PXW-X70 with a wide adapter for this task, leaving my station issued JVC HM790 garbage camera in the trunk. My live shots consist of wearing a TVU backpack, and walking through the scene while talking my report. The X70 is nice for this application, much better than the HM790, but it has hard to adjust button controls, which makes for sloppy camera work while trying to manipulate them, and low light performance at night.

Almost all of my live stuff is shot wide angle, so there seems to be a few usable lenses. Anyone with an A7s that can verify hw easy it would be to adjust iris and gain while shooting? that would be my primary concern, need for XLR and such is very minimal, although I would need an HDMI to SDI converter to feed the TVU.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Beechtek make XLR adapters for DSLR cameras - I know many 5D fans use them

DXA-SLR PURE - beachtek

Pete

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Here's my rig Paul - I always keep the rig pressed into my shoulder. Me left hand is on the lens while my right hand is on the grip - my thumb adjusts the ISO and my trigger finger can easily adjust the iris. I come from a traditional video camera background so getting used to DSLR film has (and still is) tough but I'm getting there

Pete

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Peter, can you adjust the iso by turning the dial on the back of the camera?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Yes Noa - It's the large thumbwheel on the back - the other 2 thumbwheels are for shutter speed and iris

Pete

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Same as on my rx10 then, wish all dslr makers would follow this design.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I didn't like turning the wheel to adjust ISO (personal preference - I kept scrolling past the ISO setting I wanted) so I've assigned ISO to the bottom press of the wheel, which somehow feels easier.

Just added a Beachtek XLR box to my A7s, and initial test shows there's no background noise when using it with a Sony radio mic.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I like to stay lightweight, so I recently picked up a simple dual XLR female to Stereo Mini adapter. Haven't used it on a production yet, but just did a bunch of tests coming out of a mixer (with its outputs set to mic level) and the camera volume level around 8 -- and everything recorded perfectly. Of course I usually work with a sound person, and they will also record on their mixer as a backup as well.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Just finished a multi-day doc-style shoot. Here's the setup:

Instagram

Major differences from my previous post were changing to a Westside AV Sony L battery adaptor with leads for both the A7S and the Odyssey 7Q+ (also added for this shoot.) I also added a vertical cheese plate to mount both the battery mount as well as the JuicedLink together. Nice and compact, all things considered. Forgot to bring my shoulder pad, and Sony Ls drain fast when powering both a 7Q and the A7S, but other than that, pretty happy with this setup. Did about 50/50 tripod vs. handheld. Also, note the Sony wireless receiver mounted on the hotshoe.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

[QUOTE=Ryan Douthit;1871812]This is an A7S setup I use for R+G.

Hi Ryan, I have a question about the A7s.
Are you able to use it "Stand Alone" ?

I need something for unattended extended indoor Videos of up to 3 hours.
I currently use a GH4 with 12-35 lens, one internal battery, and one internal SD card.
I am also trying out the Panasonic HC-X1000.
Both are pushed to the limit by the poor light I have to film in.
Extra Lights are not an option.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

When recording internally the A7S is limited to 29 minute clips. Externally, only battery and capacity limit. So, anything that takes HDMI out should work. Ninja star, Odyssey 7Q+, etc.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Yes, you can use an external recorder for longer Videos.

But, How good is the FullTime AutoFocus?

Could I use the A7s on a TriPod unattended to shoot a slowly moving object inside the area the lens is capable of shooting without adjustment or moving the camera after it is set up?
I assume that I would be using a Sony AF lens such as the 24-70 f/4.

What if I were a one man crew and wanted to get in the Video?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

You want a full frame dslr to shoot for 3 hours unattended in autofocus in poorly lit environments? That's asking for problems if you ask me, what exactly are you planning on shooting?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I am shooting 2-3 hours of Bowling and want higher resolution and faster shutter speed to critique the hand release.
I am using a GH4 and HC-X1000 and they are pretty much maxed out at 120s shutter in that light.

A DX Sensor or close to it could do just fine.
My D5300 can do up to 12800 (barely) usable ISO but only records 1080P60 for 10 minutes (Shogun is fix for that).
But the FullTime AutoFocus sucks so it is not good for unattended Video.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I have decided to take the A7s plunge.......using one for ENG night shooting, when subject matter is stationary and I can walk around and up to incident subject matter. Going to put a 24-240 on it, but thinking I could use one of those little cages. Can someone recommend a wraparound cage that could not interfere with the quick operation of any vital controls, and offer a handle on top?

I think Peters set-up looks nicer than the two grip versions I see all the time. Unfortunately, in ENG work, typically both of my hands are constantly manipulating dials and controls.....very rare for me to use hands just to hold something while it does it's thing.

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I use my A7s ENG style all the time with my cage, it is available here:
Sony a7S shoulder kit: Westside A V Studios WEB Store

All the controls are accessible as well as battery and card. The optional big batty holder is great both for stability and long battery life. The shoulder parts quickly removable and optional.

The hot shoe is also available and I like using the top of the cage as a handle, it works well that way but you can easily add any type of handle to the top, I make those of wood or aluminum as well.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Olaf could you provide a link to the big battery solution - I did see it once but now cannot find it.

Thanks

Pete

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Hi Paul, this is my A7s rig. I use the Movcam cage which I believe helps in stabilising the camera and also I use the Sony XLR-K1M audio kit, (not attached in this photo)
My main lens is the Sony 28-135mm f4 which is fantastic I think.

It's not cheap to get a small rig like this but sure beats lugging around my large EMG kit.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Paul,

I've followed your others posts as I also own the Sony PXW-X180. I'm also looking to expand to another camera. As you are getting the A7S, did you also consider the new Sony A7RII? I know it is about $700 more but has some nice additional features (internal 4K). (I ask as you have more knowledge and experience than I do.)

John

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Peter, do you mean a brick size battery? Like an AB or IDX V-mount or Gold-Mount.

If so I can do those as well, but bear in mind those batteries are 14.8v and I use the voltage regulated plates for this.

Contact me directly for a quote on those for the A7s.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I finally got the A7s only because of the Low Light capability but almost sent it back to get a D750 instead.
The handling, lack of controls, lousy Auto ISO, recording limits, wimpy battery and mediocre codec were hard to deal with.
Then I saw what it could do with an external 7Q+ 4k recorder and kept it.
The 28-135 cine lens adds lots of control. I would rather have it than all the other FE lens combined.

I got a dummy battery and started using NP970 batteries on a Sony L plate that last almost 3 hours. Finally I found that BestBatt.com has a new 7.2 volt NP990 10400mAh battery. I can now record over 3 hours unattended with plenty of power to spare.

It is rumored that an affordable Sony FS type CamCorder with A7s Sensor will be announced very soon.
That would be a better option for nearly all of us except they will be sold out for months.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Any tips on securely mounting the L plate to your rig?

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

In one of the pictures in this thread, it appeared to be mounted on the shoulder rig.
You may have to drill and tap yours.
The (Amazon $20 Small Rig) unit I have has a threaded mount I use on my TriPod leg. It also has a Velcro strap and slide in L shaped bracket mount included.
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Plate-...0_SR320%2C320_

There is also a plate for monitors that might be better to mount on your set up.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

That lens looks heavy Simon!

I bought an A7s on eBay last week, and it hasn't even arrived yet and an A7sII has already been announced with byuilt in 4K!

I also got a 24-240 FE Sony lens from B&H..........I have never felt a stiffer zoom and focus mechanism, I will need the 5 axis stabilization (for rotational spin!) just to rotate these things, molasis! Simon, how smooth is that 28-135?????

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

My 28-135 Cine is very smooth but not loose.
The added controls really help my Video work.
And I like being able to manually focus simply by pulling the focus ring back.

I would send your lens back and upgrade.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Well, $2700 for the A7s with 10x lens is reasonable to play with the low light capabilities. If I like the sucker, then an A7sII with 28-135 would be the logical next step. The Cine lens with the mark II would run me $5500, so quite a bit more, not worth it unless the low light performance REALLY blows me away!

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I have already ordered my A7sII $2999

The A7s has so many flaws that I am sure it will be easy to improve on.
The new camera will be worth a lot more or I will send it back for a 30 day no quivel return.

As for the Sensor, that is the only reason I kept it.
I shoot in such poor low light that I have ISO set at 6400

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

Hi Paul,
The 28-135mm is heavy but with the Movcam rig on this sort of balances out.
This is the best lens I think for run and gun as they call it and produces a great image.
I've tried Canon glass etc... and although it's nice ... I think for my needs the Sony wins hands down for ease of use. Just think Par focal glass at this price����

I just want to add, the A7s and the lens combo is really easy to use and focus. I like the focus controls of the lens and in particular I have the camera setup for one push auto focus with manual lens control also. I can nail focus in an instant.
Also you have the crop mode function on the camera which gets you a lens from 28mm through to 200mm

Paul, the lens is smooth mate just like any typical ENG lens. I would not have purchased this if it behaved like a still lens as most of my work involves pushing in and out on my shoots.
I'll shoot something for you and post here tomorrow.

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I have already sent B&H and return request for my 24-240, so I can upgrade to the 28-135! Will be pre-ordering the A7sII as well.......got my A7s cheap enough and just wanted to test it out before going balls deep with it. Also bought a Varivon Pro cage with rotating handgrip with strap.......I am afraid to hold something without a strap! Picking up an HDMI to SDI converter so I can do news live shots with it. :)

Paul

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I might suggest the PIX-5 ($1400) but it does not do 1080P120.
This might make no difference to you.
It does have HDMI in and SDI out as does my 7Q+ ($2300).

Re: Cameras like a7s used in ENG style?
 

I have to hook up to a TVUPack for live broadcast, takes HD-SDI only. The little HDMI to SDI converter runs on 5v, so I can shove it in the TVU backpack and power it from one of the USB jacks.....nifty!

Paul