Cinegamma curves comparison at DVinfo.net

Eugene Kosarovich · August 16th, 2008, 04:11 PM

Are there any graphs of the actual gamma curves of the STD and Cinegamma 1,2,3,4 settings in the F335/355?

The wording in the manual on the differences between the different gamma curves isn't really painting a picture for me. I mean, even my Z1 came with graphs of the different gamma curves it has. I think a graph would definitely help me see which curve does what.

Aren't there any for the XDCAM HD camcorders?

Thanks.

George Kroonder · August 17th, 2008, 12:37 AM

There are small graphs of the curves in the XDCAM brochure but that is marketing material, so I wouldn't rate them as accurate.

You can check (and adjust) the gamma with the use of a waveform monitor and a grayscale chart like the DSC labs "Toni".

George/

Simon Wyndham · August 17th, 2008, 04:14 AM

To see what the gamma curves are doing you need to output the test SAW signal to a waveform monitor.

Unfortunately the standard menus on the 1/2" XDCAM HD camcorders are dumbed down so you have to access the service menus to access it.

Richard Raaijmakers · August 17th, 2008, 01:37 PM

I was wondering if the gamma curves on the EX1 are the same as on the F335/355?

There is a nice gamma graph of the EX1 here:
Default Cinealta Gamma Curves - <span class="highlight">Gamma</span> Curves DV Info Net Gallery

Looks the same as in the F335/355 brochure.

Simon Wyndham · August 17th, 2008, 06:33 PM

The gamma curves are identical. It is like this on purpose so that the cameras (F3xx and EX1/3) can match perfectly.

Eugene Kosarovich · August 17th, 2008, 09:50 PM

Cool, thanks. The graph helps clarify what the manual described.

Although I realize it's subjective and lighting dependant, are any of the gamma curves really made only for use if you are doing fancy color grading in post, versus looking for a bit more film-like look in-camera?

I shoot HD in 60i with the standard gamma, but when I shoot in 30p, I'd like to use a cinegamma curve to give it a bit more of a film look, but not requiring more grading later.

Are any of the curves better for this use or any that should be avoided for this use?

Thanks.

Simon Wyndham · August 18th, 2008, 01:53 AM

Cine 1 and 2 are for things such as film out. You really wouldn't want to use those unless you were grading or going out to film.

For straight to DVD etc Cine4 is a better bet. They don't really give you film look, but they do roll off the highlights much more smoothly than standard gammas by compressing the tonal range in the highlights. This does of course have potential pitfalls, but I've never really had a problem with them.

It would clarify things more if Sony took a leaf from Panasonics book and had an equivalent of Film Rec and Video Rec film style gamma curves to clarify their usage more.

Greg Boston · August 18th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Unfortunately the standard menus on the 1/2" XDCAM HD camcorders are dumbed down so you have to access the service menus to access it.

Well Simon, I'm happy to report that the 355 has an advanced menu available at the user level which addresses that issue.

-gb-

Simon Wyndham · August 19th, 2008, 03:25 AM

Indeed there is Greg, but they still haven't included the Test SAW output in those options (white and black SAW are not the same thing).

August 16th, 2008, 04:11 PM	#1
Eugene Kosarovich Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 161	Cinegamma curves comparison Are there any graphs of the actual gamma curves of the STD and Cinegamma 1,2,3,4 settings in the F335/355? The wording in the manual on the differences between the different gamma curves isn't really painting a picture for me. I mean, even my Z1 came with graphs of the different gamma curves it has. I think a graph would definitely help me see which curve does what. Aren't there any for the XDCAM HD camcorders? Thanks. __________________ Scorpio Productions PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b

August 17th, 2008, 12:37 AM	#2
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	There are small graphs of the curves in the XDCAM brochure but that is marketing material, so I wouldn't rate them as accurate. You can check (and adjust) the gamma with the use of a waveform monitor and a grayscale chart like the DSC labs "Toni". George/ Last edited by George Kroonder; August 17th, 2008 at 03:23 AM. Reason: Typos

August 17th, 2008, 09:50 PM	#6
Eugene Kosarovich Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 161	Cool, thanks. The graph helps clarify what the manual described. Although I realize it's subjective and lighting dependant, are any of the gamma curves really made only for use if you are doing fancy color grading in post, versus looking for a bit more film-like look in-camera? I shoot HD in 60i with the standard gamma, but when I shoot in 30p, I'd like to use a cinegamma curve to give it a bit more of a film look, but not requiring more grading later. Are any of the curves better for this use or any that should be avoided for this use? Thanks. __________________ Scorpio Productions PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b

August 17th, 2008, 04:14 AM	#3
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	To see what the gamma curves are doing you need to output the test SAW signal to a waveform monitor. Unfortunately the standard menus on the 1/2" XDCAM HD camcorders are dumbed down so you have to access the service menus to access it.

August 17th, 2008, 01:37 PM	#4
Richard Raaijmakers New Boot Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 17	I was wondering if the gamma curves on the EX1 are the same as on the F335/355? There is a nice gamma graph of the EX1 here: Default Cinealta Gamma Curves - <span class="highlight">Gamma</span> Curves DV Info Net Gallery Looks the same as in the F335/355 brochure.

August 17th, 2008, 06:33 PM	#5
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	The gamma curves are identical. It is like this on purpose so that the cameras (F3xx and EX1/3) can match perfectly.

August 18th, 2008, 01:53 AM	#7
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Cine 1 and 2 are for things such as film out. You really wouldn't want to use those unless you were grading or going out to film. For straight to DVD etc Cine4 is a better bet. They don't really give you film look, but they do roll off the highlights much more smoothly than standard gammas by compressing the tonal range in the highlights. This does of course have potential pitfalls, but I've never really had a problem with them. It would clarify things more if Sony took a leaf from Panasonics book and had an equivalent of Film Rec and Video Rec film style gamma curves to clarify their usage more.

August 19th, 2008, 03:25 AM	#9
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Indeed there is Greg, but they still haven't included the Test SAW output in those options (white and black SAW are not the same thing).