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-   -   Sony HVR-HD1000U Shoulder Mount for $1900 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-hd1000/101903-sony-hvr-hd1000u-shoulder-mount-1900-a.html)

Michael Liebergot August 24th, 2007 07:15 AM

Does anyone think that Sony might also release a stripped down version of the EXCAM (let's say without XLR and a few features) for an even cheaper price?

Similar in a way that they did with the Z1/FX1 and V1/FX7.

I know that the EXCAM is from Sony's Pro division.
But do you think that the comsmer division may put out a SD media based camera similar to the EXCAM?

Sony seems to do this quite often.

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 07:33 AM

It's not EXCAM -- instead it's XDCAM EX.

Anything is possible, I guess, but I don't think it's very likely. Although for flash memory recording, it looks like there will be a significant gap of several thousand dollars between XDCAM EX and AVCHD. I would imagine that Sony will continue with their tape-based HDV product line to fill that gap for the time being.

Don't think you'll ever see an SD card on a Sony product. Up until they announced Express Card compatibility through SxS for XDCAM EX, their flash memory format of choice has always been their own proprietary Memory Stick, and that's not going to change.

Craig Irving August 24th, 2007 07:33 AM

Not exclusive to Sony, when was the last single chip shoulder-mount cam released?

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 07:34 AM

You mean *low cost* 1-chip shoulder-mount cam, and that would be the Panasonic AG-DVC7 from a couple of years ago.

Craig Irving August 24th, 2007 07:41 AM

Ah, yeah. Sorry. I should've looked into the one you guys have been talking about already. Thanks.

Jason Lowe August 24th, 2007 08:04 AM

It is kind of strange that there's no high end counterpart to this camera. From the HC1 through the FX1 and FX7, there have been "pro' models with XLR inputs and other goodies the pro crowd demands.

I think a lot of the criticism of this camera should probably be held off until a sheet of actual specifications is released. This camera looks to have a much larger lens than the HC7, which should allow a lot more light in for the all-important low light needs of event videographers. If it has full manual controls, good low light performance, and the same image quality the HC series has, it will be a real hit. No, it's not going to be usable for broadcast, but that's not it's intended purpose (although I bet a lot of local cable TV commercials will be shot with this thing).

I can see a definite place for this new camera (like, in my hands), but I can see how a few additional features would make this camera competitive with the lower end pro units.

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Lowe (Post 733546)
It is kind of strange that there's no high end counterpart to this camera.

You mean, no high end counterpart *yet.* See earlier posts in this thread, specifically from Barry Green. If they had released these cameras in the opposite order, somebody would have said "it's kind of strange that there's no low end counterpart to this camera."

David Heath August 24th, 2007 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 733554)
You mean, no high end counterpart *yet.*

Point taken - but maybe the Z1 should have been designed as shouldermount from the outset, given it's size/weight? It seems a little silly that we now have fairly heavy prosumer cameras that shouldermounting would well suit (Z1, HVX200), whilst it appears a technical package quite appropiate for consumer styling is being given a bigger than necessary form.

Greg Boston August 24th, 2007 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 733527)
Up until they announced Express Card compatibility through SxS for XDCAM EX, their flash memory format of choice has always been their own proprietary Memory Stick, and that's not going to change.

And yet, there was that still camera they released a few years back that accepted... wait for it... Compact Flash. Kind of shocked everyone with that move. But the simple fact then was CF was of much higher capacity than MS and with higher pixel count sensors, they had to do something to maintain image quality. Ah, but I digress.

-gb-

Greg Boston August 24th, 2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper (Post 733014)
It will do what they say it does, but is it really of any use?

Yes, for motion analysis. Sports comes to mind. Things like golf swings, etc that can be analyzed with this type of motion capture are an instructor's dream.

Here's a favorite Youtube video of mine showing it in action. Forget the resolution, it's what you can see that makes it usable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29nj7oLc9g8

-gb-

Peter Leary August 24th, 2007 02:46 PM

Wow 4 pages about a camera that was announced yesterday and won't be available till december. Rather than try to second guess what this camera will be like why don't we all just wait for an actual review. The a1u is a single chip cmos camera and most people praise it except for low light performance. I think this camera has potential, like most event videographers I would welcome a larger more stable shooting platform that shoulder mount camera provides.
P.S. In reading Sony's release the imply that the image quality is better than the hc7. At least thats how I read it.

David Heath August 24th, 2007 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 733527)
Don't think you'll ever see an SD card on a Sony product. Up until they announced Express Card compatibility through SxS for XDCAM EX, their flash memory format of choice has always been their own proprietary Memory Stick, and that's not going to change.

It's already happened - look at http://vaio.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProd...y=VN+TZ+Series and scroll down to 'Interfaces'.

Most of the current Sony Vaio range now supports SD cards - this model is fairly typical with slots for SD, ExpressCard and (of course) MemoryStick.

I don't know when the policy changed, I'm only glad it has.

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 04:51 PM

How about that. Guess I shouldn't mention how much I love being proved wrong. Thanks for the clarification -- much appreciated,

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Leary (Post 733771)
Wow 4 pages about a camera that was announced yesterday and won't be available till december.

Peter you've been a member here since 2004, and this comes as a surprise to you? Ha!

Quote:

Rather than try to second guess what this camera will be like why don't we all just wait for an actual review.
Because if we didn't second-guess it, then some other internet message board would do it anyway, and probably get most of it wrong.

Jack Zhang August 24th, 2007 08:16 PM

Looks pretty similar to a Panny Camera...

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...Model=AG-DVC20

Our school has the older models of these cams.

Mike Wade August 25th, 2007 08:07 AM

The following information supplied by Sony to Kevin Cook of the IOV in the UK may be of interest:

The above camcorder was introduced this week at the BIRTV show in China. It is a low cost DV/HDV camcorder targeted for wedding videography and education in developing markets.
We have decided not to promote this product in our region (Europe) as we feel that it does not offer the full functionality that our UK customers require, however, it will be available for sale if a customer deems it suitable and accepts the limitations.

Tentative SRP on the HVR-HD1000E camcorder is £1200.00 and availability is December 07.

For professional users there are the following limitations:

- No DVCAM capability (despite the USA release)
- Mini Jack for Audio
-No Timecode preset
-Mini Cassette only

All out efforts will be put behind the other shoulder mount camcorder with interchangeable lenses which is due in March 08. We will be showing a prototye of this at IBC. Further details of this model will be provided in due course.

---------------

Michael Liebergot August 25th, 2007 08:28 AM

Mike, tahnks for the info. DVCAM deosn't bother me a whole lot. But, as I figured, the unit will not offer XLR inputs for audio. For me that's a deal breaker, end of story.

Theodore McNeil August 25th, 2007 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Wade (Post 734111)
All out efforts will be put behind the other shoulder mount camcorder with interchangeable lenses which is due in March 08. We will be showing a prototye of this at IBC. Further details of this model will be provided in due course.

Hmmmm.... Does this mean there will be a shoulder mounted Z1U/V1U-esque HDV camera or are they referring to something in the XDCAM line?

Tom Wills August 25th, 2007 02:02 PM

Looks like Sony is going after the market that Panasonic's been catering to for a while. I myself have a DVC60, which looks just like this camera, only not HDV, 3 CCDs, and with XLRs on the back. It's a lovely camera, and a lot of the shooters I work with who are used to full-sized ENG cameras really like it, compared to the typical prosumer camera. For me, I was trained to shoot events and sports on Sony DVCAM setups, so I love the design, as it's light, easy to hold, and yet harkens back to the big ENG rigs in many good ways (if only it had a manual lens, then I'd be in heaven!).

Panasonic's coming out soon with an AVCHD shoulder mount camera, that will hopefully be based around the DVC60, so that should be nice, and certainly, if Sony can put together a beautiful lightweight shoulder mount camera with HDV, that'll be a great option too.

Chris Hurd August 25th, 2007 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodore McNeil (Post 734268)
Does this mean there will be a shoulder mounted Z1U/V1U-esque HDV camera...?

Yes -- see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....4&postcount=26

Paulo Teixeira August 25th, 2007 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theodore McNeil (Post 734268)
Does this mean there will be a shoulder mounted Z1U/V1U-esque HDV camera...?

See also http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91617

Theodore McNeil August 25th, 2007 09:36 PM

Thanks guys. (And for you forum presence in general, I think I've learned so much just by lurking in these forums.)

Yeah Chris I read that post and Paulo I also saw that camera at the Sony booth at NAB. The guys working the Sony booth told me that the camera's details were still being worked out by the engineers and to take the details advertised with a grain of salt.

The mock up at NAB didn't have the interchangeable lens option. I thought that glass case HDV camera became the HD1000U.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Matt Headley August 26th, 2007 10:41 PM

regardless of nitpicking quality, I'm so happy the HD middle ground is finally starting to be established. We've had all the high end cameras, recently the consumer cameras, now we are starting to see the middle ground be established.

Ervin Farkas August 27th, 2007 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 733527)
Don't think you'll ever see an SD card on a Sony product. Up until they announced Express Card compatibility through SxS for XDCAM EX, their flash memory format of choice has always been their own proprietary Memory Stick, and that's not going to change.

In addition to David's remark, some Sony still cameras also take Compact Flash cards. My DSC F-828 for example - I have a 4GB Hitachi Microdrive spinning in it.

Chris Hurd August 27th, 2007 02:53 PM

Granted, that some Vaio laptops accept SD cards and other types of flash memory; and that some Sony digicams accept Compact Flash. However, I stand by my assertion that it is highly unlikely that Sony will ever use anything other than Memory Stick or SxS flash memory on their pro, semi-pro or consumer video product line.

Terry Wall August 29th, 2007 06:06 PM

Lotsa Buzz
 
Well...if Sony's monitoring the buzz going on on the many video forums, they're probably grabbing all this feedback they're getting. I do agree with the many posters that say that without going to 3 full chips, it's just a "shoulder fired" version of the HVR-A1U. We know they're targeting the wedding/event crowd, but even we want more functionality--and manual control. Sony, keep working...we're watching!!

Out.

Adam Gold August 29th, 2007 09:42 PM

I think based on all the discussion -- speculation -- here and elsewhere, it seems that it is indeed a tricked out HC7.

But that doesn't make it a bad cam or even a bad value. The use of the term "pro" in all the press materials notwithstanding, this clearly isn't meant for anyone who has a broadcast destination in mind, but could prove very useful in the wedding, education and corporate areas.

The pros are looking down their noses -- or are they turning them up? -- at this unit because it's too downscale for them. But how many times have you seen wedding videographers scurrying around with their little HC3s? Many shoot with Z1s and Canon H1s as their primary rig, but use the little palmcorders as B-Roll cams, and it doesn't inspire confidence among their clients. And that's nothing to be laughed at when you're around Bridezillas and their very nervous parents who have blown eighty grand on a party. Fair or not, when they see you with the same cam they can pick up at Best Buy, they're thinking, "I'm paying how much for this?"

Or picture the corporate guy who wants to look like a hero for purchasing a "pro" camera at a bargain price in some company A/V unit. He can pick up a couple of these for a song in this age of corporate belt tightening when companies are never willing to pay for the best quality -- just what's good enough to get by.

Or take my situation. I don't make a living at this and probably never will. I mostly do charity and community work as a way of giving back after 25 years in the TV business in LA and NY. Now I shoot a lot of sports videos, first with my VX2000 as my primary (only) cam and now with my FX1 as "A" cam and two HC3s as B and C. Scurrying around with an HC3 and shooting tape of 14-year-old girls from up in the tress -- "honestly, officer, it's the best angle; I'm with the team, I swear!" -- I'm just an obnoxious parent at best and a creepy guy in sweats at worst. But with an HD1000 on my shoulder I'm The Team Videographer.

Perception does matter. Ergonomics matter more. And even if this thing is no better than an HC7, which is no slouch, the form will make it much easier to work with and get stable video while handholding. And note that while it obviously isn't close to the high-end Canons in terms of features, the form factor is actually better -- with the weight of the battery pack and some camera body behind your shoulder, it's more neutrally balanced, leaving your right hand free to point, steady and work controls, not support the weight of the cam, something no shoulder brace (save for the CB-105 I just bought on EBay) can claim.

So I don't think we should sell this one short just yet.

Of course, after it comes out we may discover it to be a piece of junk, and then the derisive snarkiness is appropriate. But for now it's on my radar screen, and I'll be waiting to find out more about it, and potentially a higher end version. Sure, I'd love a V1 with this shape; who wouldn't? But if one of the HC3s croaks -- and maybe even if it doesn't -- I think this baby would come in handy.

I applaud Sony for trying to fill a niche, however small it may be. Certainly nobody else is trying to do so -- not at this price point.

Mel Enriquez August 30th, 2007 01:11 AM

A viable option
 
I agree with Adam. Though an FX1 or some other camera would be better, this is a viable option. Better than using the hc3 or hc7, though they are good 2nd cams or B cams themselves for the price.

We should not expect this camera to be feature laden, but it should be usable enough for the task. If we want more, we should dish out U$3,000 or more for a better camera.

True, those who know, will not consider this highly. But the typical consumer doesn't know that. What he sees is a shoulder mount camera that is imposing, especially with the large microphone sticking out. And if this thing can do decently, then it would be a good 2nd cam.

Looking at the photos of the this cam, it looks pretty basic. The controls are few and does the basic stuff. f1.8 lens ranging from 40-400mm 35mm equivalent. The ring is programmable but I bet the way to change it would require you to dig thorough menus.

Wayne Morellini August 30th, 2007 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Wall (Post 736556)
Well...if Sony's monitoring the buzz going on on the many video forums, they're probably grabbing all this feedback they're getting. I do agree with the many posters that say that without going to 3 full chips, it's just a "shoulder fired" version of the HVR-A1U. We know they're targeting the wedding/event crowd, but even we want more functionality--and manual control. Sony, keep working...we're watching!!

Out.

Well I am happy with it, except I would prefer 720p25/50 at this data rate. If they are listening, they could scrap all this consumer 1080 stuff, and go 720p. I would prefer better codec/data-rate for 1080p25/50 and even more for p50 for professional.

Jason Lowe August 30th, 2007 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel Enriquez (Post 736717)
The controls are few and does the basic stuff. f1.8 lens ranging from 40-400mm 35mm equivalent. The ring is programmable but I bet the way to change it would require you to dig thorough menus.

Wow, that's pretty disappointing. While I don't expect XH A1 level controls, something more than a "manual" button would be nice. Thought the lens might be bigger (better low light) but it seems to be the same little lens with nothing but a massive lens hood and a plastic barrel build around it.

Still, it looks good on the tripod, and for certain markets, that's worth a lot in itself. Plenty of room on there to apply a decal for a local cable channel or a business logo. I wonder how much it weighs?

Jack Zhang September 2nd, 2007 05:23 AM

I think it would be nearly identical to the HC7.

Aaron Winters October 6th, 2007 04:04 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5HmX6GlKCFo

Mmmmm, promotional video. Don't think this has been posted on here yet.

Gints Klimanis October 6th, 2007 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang (Post 738154)

3 1920x1080 global shutter CMOS sensors capturing in H.264 at 100Mbps in 1080p60.

Nice dream. You probably only need one sensor if its big enough. Dream for the Nikon D3 sensor in a video recorder.

Ervin Farkas October 8th, 2007 08:56 AM

Professional appearance
 
I like the wording Sony uses on their UTube promotional: Professional appearance... no claims for actual professional quality.

IMO this camera will satisfy the needs of the majority of wedding videographers.

Peter Ferling October 10th, 2007 10:49 AM

I didn't know that Sony aquired fischer price. (It doesn't look pro to me at all, more like a cheapo RCA VHS I tossed out a few years ago).

What's with the large storage compartment in the back for? It's gotta be hollow. You can fill it with candy and hang it like a Piñata for the kids after you encouter your first low light situation and give up. :)


I'm kidding. I'm sure Sony knows theres a market for it.

Michael Jouravlev October 11th, 2007 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling (Post 756962)
I didn't know that Sony aquired fischer price. (It doesn't look pro to me at all, more like a cheapo RCA VHS I tossed out a few years ago).

Come on, it has professional focus ring.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling (Post 756962)
What's with the large storage compartment in the back for? It's gotta be hollow.

It should be, judging by location of tripod bush. If cameras were designed like machine guns, the back portion of this camera would be a foldable, lightweight carbon-fiber shoulder mount.

And by the way, the comparison between HDV and DV shows DV having 4:3 aspect. Rrrrright.

Dan Gonzales October 17th, 2007 08:44 PM

New sony hvr-1000
 
Looks like it will be coming out in November. Its basicly an hc7 in a bigger case. I definitely like the size and the focus ring. Hopefully it has actual buttons and wheels for exposure wb etc. If the optics are as good as the hc1 then it should be a good camera. I hope its 20x optical zoom like in the bh picture but in the write up it says only 10x optical zoom. On a multi camera shoot you could use the hvr-1000 as the main camera and use the little cousins hc-1 3 5 7 as stationary cameras. Hopefully the price will drop a little after a few months below that $1900.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...CAMCORDER.html

John Bosco Jr. October 27th, 2007 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Gonzales (Post 760603)
Looks like it will be coming out in November. Its basicly an hc7 in a bigger case. I definitely like the size and the focus ring. Hopefully it has actual buttons and wheels for exposure wb etc. If the optics are as good as the hc1 then it should be a good camera. I hope its 20x optical zoom like in the bh picture but in the write up it says only 10x optical zoom. On a multi camera shoot you could use the hvr-1000 as the main camera and use the little cousins hc-1 3 5 7 as stationary cameras. Hopefully the price will drop a little after a few months below that $1900.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...CAMCORDER.html

The 20X label near the lens is with the doubler on, so it is a 10X optical zoom. Essentially, it's a HC7 in a more professional package. If the price comes down to say $1500 or $1600, I'll sell my HC7 and get this. I like the picture of the HC7, but I can't get use to the lack of professional controls. Oh, I hope this camera will have manual control of the gain.

Jim Nogueira October 27th, 2007 12:48 PM

Manual Gain Control?
 
It doesn't appear that this camcorder has manual gain control, which is a shame.
Unless it gains up cleanly (with little noise), this could be a problem in a dimly-lit church where additional lighting can't be used. I'd prefer to keep the gain setting low and brighten the image in post.

Colin Zhang October 28th, 2007 02:11 AM

The product brochure is out on the Sony Broadast & Business Solutions website's HDV product section.

www.sony.com/hdv (redirects to main page)


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