Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Thought I would let everyone on the V1U forum know that I received my Atomos Ninja last week, and I did some test shots over the weekend. Appears to work very well with the V1U so far. Still working out my rig and the configuration, but pleased with the results so far. Workflow is GREATLY enhanced, not to mention some quality improvements capturing to ProRes 422 at full 1920X1080. Let me know if anyone has any questions, and I will try to answer all I can.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Jeff, thanks for the report. I was wondering how well it would work with the V1.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Just checked out the Vimeo video for the Ninja and it's very impressive for $995 USD. Looks like that will be it for tape for long shoots with a stationary camera. (The downside being the need for a HDMI connecting cable from the camera to the unit - a necessary evil ... not good for when you are on the run.)

Pretty awesome.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Andrew, the HDMI cable connection is not too bad. I found a nice Sony cable that has a "swing arm" cable connector type, so that I can adjust the cable to a right angle and it is less obtrusive that way, but was not able to find anything similar that was the right length, so I have some extra cable tied up that is a little annoying (1M was the shortest I could find locally).

One thing that I find more challenging is that the Ninja changes the weight distribution on the camera pretty significantly.

Most of my shots are from a tripod, so once adjust, it is not as much of an issue, but it does greatly change the weight distribution and feel of the camera if shooting "run and gun" or hand-held.

But, given the work flow advantages (working with Final Cut Pro), and quality enhancements (especially color grading), I was very willing to make those trade-offs.

Happy so far, but my real test will come this weekend when I have to use it to shoot an outdoor event, where I will be moving from setup to setup pretty quickly.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

My main concern is that it only saves to the ProRes formats and that I use Premiere Pro (and am not about to change).

Not exactly sure on how compatible the format is for ingest to the editing software.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Very cool to see the life of these cameras being extended with these recorders. The V1 is a great camera, and the weakest link was the HDV codec. I have a similar camera (XLH1) and have been using a Nanoflash for a good while to get around its shortcomings (and it has served me very well).

The competition is increasing, prices are dropping, and soon there will be recorders available for every type of work-flow (choosing a recorder is going to be as difficult as choosing a camera soon).

Right now the focus seems to be mainly recorders using the ProRes codec, which is all a bit apple-centric. Hopefully there will be more PC friendly choices on the way.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Andrew, are you editing in PPro on a Mac or PC? I have PPro on the Mac and could test for you, but I think it will work natively with ProRes, if you are on the latest version.

Jeff

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Hi Jeff,

I'm editing PPro on the PC, currently at v2. Will have to upgrade some day.

Not that the Ninja is an immediate need.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Repeating what I've been told - the latest QT for PC includes a ProRes decoder. Presumably, that means that if Premiere PC can open QT, it can open ProRes. That's the way it works in Vegas (PC).

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Thanks. That's good enough for me.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

so my V1U firewire port is dead.

will this impact the use of the Atomos Ninja, or is it all through the HDMI port?

the camera itself is in PERFECT condition.

thanks,

jcz

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Actually, this is almost the perfect case for a Ninja. It only needs a working HDMI port. Essentially you're replacing the whole of the camera behind the lens and the sensor!

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

fantastic.
could you briefly explain the differences between the two models available on B+H?
i'm assuming the second version has storage included.
how much recording time can i expect out of the more expensive option?
furthermore, does the Ninja use proprietary batteries?
if so, how long will the Ninja function with the included batteries.
THANKS!

jcz

I would go for the full version, which includes the carry case, batteries, docking station etc. At the risk of sounding like I'm plugging my own product as opposed to giving advice to a question that was asked, it's a much better deal.

We have the batteries made for us. They're the same quality as Sony's. They're not proprietary but are standard NP- mount. We include a charger but you can use Sony's batteries and Sony's charger if you want.

The two models are simply with and without the extras included in the case. It makes much more sense to buy the full kit, because it contains batteries, charger, docking station and of course the case itself. They're Sony NP-mount - type batteries. You can use Sony ones instead. There's no storage included because you can buy it much cheaper than we can supply it! Don't forget the Ninja uses spinning drives as well as SSDs.

Each of the two included batteries will give you up to 2.5 hours if record time, or much more, depending what mode you're using the system in.

Hope this helps

Dave Shapton
Atomos

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

For those interested in how the V1U performs with the Ninja, I have posted some additional test footage that I shot last weekend here:

Shot with the V1U, into the Ninja - ProResHQ, Edit in FCP, Color Corrected (very quickly) in Apple Color, then compressed in Compressor using x.264 codec, then uploaded to Vimeo.

Going to show some side by side HDV versus Ninja Output hopefully next.

I was really dying to move to something like an FS100, but after seeing the quality that I am getting from the V1U, I think it has extended the life of my V1U. I feel in a number of conditions, the final results using the Ninja would rival what I would get using a FS100. Ignoring low light shooting of course...

I am sure if I was shooting short film or documentary, I may feel differently, but I am starting to love my V1U again, thanks to the Ninja. Wow, never thought I would be thanking a Ninja?

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

The Vimeo copy looks like the compression used on the sample video is a bit too hard. Any possibility of uploading a much larger / higher quality exported file?

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Andrew, you can download the larger version from the vimeo page (this is the original x.264 file, which I thought looked pretty good). I did not try to optimize the file size, since I was uploading to Vimeo and not worried about streaming or hosting it myself. To go higher rez than that would probably be a REALLY large file. The x.264 file was a little over 180MB. Also, you have to be a Vimeo signed in user in order to download the file I believe.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

The video playback from the original uploaded file is maxing out my CPU, so I suspect that's it for me in the meantime.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Now I just have to get it from component into HDMI for my FX1..... <sigh>

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Jeff, any update on how the Atomos is doing with the V1?

I own 2 V1U's and am wondering if I should extend their life by buying a couple of Ninja's rather than buying new cameras.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

D.J.,
I have found that the Ninja definitely extended the life of my V1U. I was thinking off replacing it over the next year. However, now, based on the Ninja, what is out there from Sony, and how I use my camera, I feel I got at least a couple more years out of the camera.

But, I must say one of the biggest benefits to me are on my shoots for Clinics, where I am running 3-4 hours inbetween breaks. Stopping to swap HDV tape meant that I was missing content. With the ninja, I can shoot an entire day on a single drive, and not miss any of the action. Then when ingesting, the process is MUCH faster. Not to mention the better quality.

During shorter events, I still use HDV tape as a backup, but I have gained confidence in the Ninja for the longer shoots that it is capturing the action.

The new firmware is awesome as well. Instant playback on the device. Which always scared the death out of me with HDV Tape, as I would create time gaps and sometimes overwrite content when previewing before completing a day of shooting. No worries about that with the ninja and the new firmware.

I have 4 drives that I am using now, and have not had any problems whatsover.

Only minor issue I have seen is when I am using my remote to control the start and stop record function for both the camera-tape and the ninja at the same time, and the camera has not been recording for a period of time. The loop through function appears to sometimes cause the ninja to stop recording when the camera actually begins recording. But, a splitter rather than a loop through may solve that problem.

Hope this information helps. I am very happy with my investment in the Ninja product.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Hello, sorry if i post in a old thread
But, you can confirm that actually the v1u can "export" video trough HDMI port, so isnt only for "watch" that hdmi port, actually it can be captured with atomos ninja right?

Im saying this because i saw some camcorders that cant "export" video by hdmi, they can actually be connected and seen on TV or PC , but cannot be captured.

I own a V1p (that its the european version of V1u) so i guess if you could capture trough HDMI with ATOMOS NINJA

i could do the same with my V1p and Blackmagic Design HyperDeck Shuttle 2

i am right?

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

I capture 1920x1080i via the HDMI port of my V1E (the PAL European version - I think the -P version is "rest of world"apart from N America & Europe) using a Matrox MXO2 with no problems. I can even use the 1394 connection at the same time to provide device control.

I am sure any version of the V1 would enable capture/export via the HDMI port.

I would welcome any user comments on ingesting the ProRes footage to a PC based Premiere CS6.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

An HDMI output on a camcorder is for "Playback" or "Live Preview". I would not call it "Export", which denotes transferring data. When you ask if the HDMI output is for "Watching", yes it is, but this is also exactly the same signal that the Ninja is looking for, or capture devices like BlackMagic and Matrox are looking for.

While many of the DSLR cameras have strange HDMI output signals that are not always compatible with Atomos, actual VIDEO CAMCORDERS should ALL be compatible. If it has an HDMI output, you are all set!

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Thanks everyone for your help,i was considering the atomos, but its kinda pricey for my actual budget.
I will consider your recommendation in not-so-far future, but for now ill buy an external media solution maybe dn-60

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

So now a couple of years after my 2011 posts on this thread I am still in pretty much the same situation.

I have been doing event and wedding videography with two Sony V1U's I purchased new when they were the latest thing. My 3rd cam (backup stationary cam) has been a Canon HV20 so all on HDV tape.

Not too long ago I purchased a Canon XA10 and T4i DSLR as my first move into non tape capture. While I think the XA10 is a great camera I miss a lot of the manual controls of my V1U's. We are about to edit together our first wedding with the XA10, T4i DSLR video, Canon HF M301, and one of my V1U's. I am anxious to see how the footage edits together.

I still love the look of our V1 footage and believe it's auto focus is one of the best I have seen. It has been fast and good enough that we can use it in all but the lowest light situations. I know many people don't but it has worked well for us.

I am now debating whether to purchase a second XA10 so I have two as my primary cameras backed up with the little HF M301 and sell my two V1U's or to purchase one or two Atomos Ninja 2's for the Sony V1U's and keep on using one or both a few more years.

Right now I can buy another XA10 for $1699 and B&H has the Atomos 2 for $795 ($200 lower than the normal price).

Any input guys?

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Just make sure you have somewhere good to mount the Atmos on the cameras.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

I have used a V1 with a Nanoflash for years. It has been a great setup. Proper mounting is a good thing. Wish I had the remote start button. It really improves the footage over HDV. This has been the best green screen setup I have ever used.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Boy do I regret paying $600 two years ago to get the tape mechanisms replaced in my Z1 and V1. My V1 has say on a shelf for years now but perhaps I should consider this to bring it out of retirement. I always really loved the look of this camera.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

It's not that bad, though I understand your pain.

The Ninja is great, but over Easter I had a file get corrupted/lost and I was wishing I had simultaneously recorded a tape backup for that particular session. Would have saved me some embarrassment.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Ok you V1U folks, I just joined the club! I was very fortunate and was given a V1U last week and I have to say I am very very happy to have it. I own two Ninjas a first edition and a new Ninja2. The Ninja one was about to be sold on Craigslist when I got the V1U and I quickly dropped the ad.
I also own a Sony FS100 and NEX 7 but was missing the all in one camcorder for certain jobs and had been looking at buying an EX1 to fill that gap. I am sure happy with the V1U/Ninja combo and have put a lightweight package together with a Fiesol tripod and Chinese made fluid head along with a Sign Video zoom controller that I had on the shelf from the days when I rented out my Kessler crane.
I will use the tape deck as a back up and because I want to use the Lanc control for the Ninja from the camera and the zoom control unless someone knows of a way to override the "no tape" condition.
Overall I am impressed with the control over settings and features of the V1U and the quality of the images. Damn nice little camera!

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Brian, great timing on your post. I have not looked at this thread for awhile but checked it tonight because I just ran across an unbelievable deal on an original Ninja that I could not pass up.

I love the look, auto focus, etc of my Sony V1u's but hate mixing HDV footage with my Canon XA10 and Canon 4ti. I am looking at the Ninja as a way to continue using a camera I love and I think still puts out a great image.

What hard drives are you using in your Ninja's? SSD's or regular 2.5" hard drives? What brands?

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

The Ninja has also had quite a significant price reduction just lately.

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

DJ, I have used Hitachi 7200 RPM drives (I have 3 X 500GB versions) very successfully as well as SSD's. These days unless I am shooting longer form content I tend to use my SSD, but for longer shoots I use the Std HDD as my SSD is only 120GB.

I have to move around a lot for various shots and have less concerns when doing that with an SSD. I know you asked Brian for his input but thought I would chime in as well.

Happily still using my V1U with the ninja. I can pull specific models if you are interested. I also usually shoot in ProResLT.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

I shot in ProResLT, but only ever once. I'd only use it if the finished product was going to be SD output only. It's been the HQ setting for me ever since.

(Actually, just looked at the Wiki page etc and the 422 is the middle option whereas I always thought it was the next-to-uncompressed option. Might give it a go.)

Andrew

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

I use WD Black Scorpion 500 GB drives. They are approved by Atomos and I have never had a shake warning. But as I add drives I will go with Atomos approved SSD drives. I shoot Pro-Res HQ 220Mbits, lots of storage and though the files are large the quality is excellent with the 422 output from the camera, I believe it is 8 bit coming out going to the 10bit record on the Ninja.
Another bonus with the Ninja is it acts as a client monitor too ...B&H say the sunshade will be available in June.
Cheers
Brian

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Thanks everybody.

Brian - I had already ordered the WD Black Scorpiran 500gb drive before I saw your post so I am glad it has been a good one for you!

Andrew, Jeff & anybody else - can you tell me what settings you use on the Ninja when using it with your Sony V1?

Also anything I need to be aware of or tricks to make things smooth with the Ninja / V1 combo?

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

The reason I shoot in LT these days is a saw a really good article from a well respected colorist a while back. They did a comparison between the different ProRes versions. Conclusion from them was that unless you are doing compositing, or broadcast work, they saw very little to no visual difference between LT and the other modes. Based on that, I figured I would save on the file sizes. Also, considering that the output from the V1U is limited to 8 bit, despite the fact that the Ninja can record 10 bit, etc. I felt that above LT mode was overkill for the work I am doing.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

I just insert the drive, format it with the Ninja, set your Codec profile (ProRes LT for me as stated previously), set the Date/Time, then set your Scene/Shot number and you should be good. I only record in Stereo on the ninja directly from the HDMI input, so I also turn off the recording of second pair of audio tracks. I left all the other settings to the default on the ninja if I remember correctly.

Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U
 

Also having good results with WD 500GB Scorpio Black drives. As mentioned by another, I think that HQ mode is going to be overkill for most users, especially given the quality of the cameras being used, there is nothing to be gained. LT may even be good enough (certainly better than HDV!) but mentally the 422 setting is a nice feel-good compromise.

Thanks