V1U grabs

[John Froton]

Simon,

If you can find this scenario replicating itself in other screen grabs then I would think you have brought light to some serious issues with the camera. I am thankful for the people like you that are sharing their findings. Hopefully Sony's progressive scanning will not prove to be inferior. I think it sounds promising that DSE has not seen a loss in quality on his end.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by John Froton

Simon,

If you can find this scenario replicating itself in other screen grabs then I would think you have brought light to some serious issues with the camera. I am thankful for the people like you that are sharing their findings. Hopefully Sony's progressive scanning will not prove to be inferior. I think it sounds promising that DSE has not seen a loss in quality on his end.

It's also pretty important to note that these are *all* pre-production models. Consider them Beta units if you will. I had two different units that were quite unique in what they had completed. For instance, the first unit had a smooth handgrip finish, no interface for the DR60, no timelapse, no 24p. The next one to come in had all those features, but a couple other menu options were not complete. So...it may well be that the V1E that Simon has is in that same category.

[Christopher Johnson]

Hi DSE,

You mentioned needing a monitor over 30" to see full 1920x1080, but I know for sure that both the Apple 23" and the Dell 24" computer LCD monitors, while not showing proper gamma, will show exact 1:1 detail of an 1080i HD image. So for detail viewing, they are great. I own the Dell and it is showing full resolution.

Thanks for all of your postings. We are so much the better for it.

-Christopher

[Simon Wyndham]

Thanks Doug. Okay you may be right about the scaling. Even still the resolution drop was still very apparent on that monitor. And as you have concurred, there is definitely something wrong with the image.

So...it may well be that the V1E that Simon has is in that same category.

I'm not sure. It did seem pretty final. Timelapse etc was all there, and there didn't seem to be any missing features that I could tell. Although it was a pre-production model and anything is possible.

When I received the camera the weather was terrible and I couldn't go out and about to try it out, so I apologise for the following shots. They were taken very quickly literally minutes after I took delivery of it. So don't take them as an example of my testing!!!! But regardless of the crap subject matter and piss poor composition, take a look at the detail The brickwork on the garage and house for example.

http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk/Sony%2...interlaced.png
http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk/Sony%2...iorProscan.png

With all due respect, Simon, there HAS to be some other reason.

With all due respect, there isn't.

[Simon Wyndham]

I think it sounds promising that DSE has not seen a loss in quality on his end.

I do think that this is an E model problem only.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

as I said with the previous two grabs: the quality loss too evident for Sony to not have been noticed, or pretend it's not there. This particular camery must be faulty, as simple as that.

Thank you Simon very much for your effort; I can imagine how disappointed you must be with the camera and - with all this discussion going on, where some people don't see the obvious - I share your frustration.

But you know what? I think the good news is that - like I said - it's too bad to be there in the final product. Let's hope so!

[Simon Wyndham]

Thanks Piotr.

Funnily enough though I am not dissapointed with the camera. If this is an issue I am sure Sony will sort it out, so these shots are only my findings with the camera that I had.

In all other respects I liked the camera a lot. But for my full findings you'll need to read Showreel :)

[Stu Holmes]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

With all due respect, there isn't.

With all due respect, they *MAY* be another reason. I don't think being quite that dismissive of polite posters like Piotr and DSE is awfully helpful or condusive to a calm discussion IMO.

[Tony Tremble]

Is there anyway with your conacts with Sony or Douglas' contacts we could get to the bottom of this?

It would be nice to close the subject with fact rather than conjecture.

Cheers

TT

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

In all other respects I liked the camera a lot. But for my full findings you'll need to read Showreel :)

I sure will! I have just got rid of the HC1 in expectation for the V1, but - having been with Sony for some 30 years now with all sort of electronic equipment - must know for sure it's at least as much better than the Canon XH-A1 as more sexy it looks:) To me, of course!

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

With all due respect, they *MAY* be another reason. I don't think being quite that dismissive of polite posters like Piotr and DSE is awfully helpful or condusive to a calm discussion IMO.

The only thing I can think is that this is a contrived solution by Sony so this potentially superb little camera doesn't take sales away from the XDCAM HD big bros.

Call me cynical....!

But that doesn't ring quite true because the 24p of the V1U doesn't suffer the same fate.

TT

[Simon Wyndham]

they *MAY* be another reason.

Like?

The data in the picture is the data in the picture. No more, no less. This isn't an analogue capture where filters etc can be used, HDV is a bit for bit transfer over firewire. And as I have mentioned before, 25p does not have the same special requirements that 24p does. I work with 25p footage all the time (pretty much exclusively actually).

As I have mentioned before on this thread on more than one occasion, the softness in the progressive mode was very apparent when viewed live from the camera on a high def monitor, let alone after capture. This is a camera issue. Not a NLE one, or something that I may have done. There simply isn't anything that I *could* do on capture and display of this footage that would cause this result.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

OK guys...I think this particular horse has been beaten to death.
There is obviously something not explicable at this time regarding how the V1E is seeing the differences between progressive and interlaced captures.
Neither Steve Mullen or myself have seen this with the V1U.
All camcorders tested are pre-production units without regard to how "complete" they may or may not be.
Simon is a professional cameraman, I'd consider myself in that same category although I'm primarily an editor, I spend a LOT of time behind the lens as well, particularly in Xtreme sports. Trying to suggest that Simon doesn't know what he's doing is non-productive; he's got credits and chops that are exceptionally respectable.

Let's table this discussion for now, and wait til we have closer-to-finished camcorders with which to have a truly informed discussion/dialog.