V1e Clips

[Ing Poh Hii]

Thanks a lot again Tony, points well taken :-).

I do need 16:9 edge-cut DV output... shame V1 doesn't have it since the Z1 has it and they both are considered the same ranked sony professional camcorder. It is actually very useful for people with SD deck or like the majority of my customers here still watch 4:3 TV.

ta~

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Ing Poh Hii

Hi Tony, It's very beautiful shot, thanks a lot for sharing.

A quick question, do you think FX7 can produce the same quality of picture you have made ? since it is 50i, I wonder any V1-only-feature has been used to make these clips ?

Many thanks~

The FX7 does have cinematone gamma. I've used that with night scenes which effectively cuts noise and raises color saturation. You also have the ability to individually set color phase, color level, skintone detail, contrast enhancement, sharpness and other picture parameters with the FX7. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, you can reproduce Tony's beautiful shots or at the very least get extremely close. I can't guarantee you you'll have Tony's artistic ability, but that's a subject for another thread. :)

One point I might disagree a bit with Tony, is that of the LCD/VF accuracy. Every one of these cameras I've picked up appear to have the LCD brightness set too low and the color level too low. These can be corrected, but I've also found the LCD to be too blue for which there is no correction on either the FX7 or V1. I've compared live output on both the LCD & VF to my calibrated 50" plasma and the color is simply more natural on the plasma screen than shows on the LCD or VF. I've made mental notes of this and know not to be alarmed when the LCD looks too cool. As Tony mentioned, I use the LCD or VF more for framing and use other tools to ensure the picture is correct.

[Tony Tremble]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

The FX7 does have cinematone gamma. I've used that with night scenes which effectively cuts noise and raises color saturation. You also have the ability to individually set color phase, color level, skintone detail, contrast enhancement, sharpness and other picture parameters with the FX7. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, you can reproduce Tony's beautiful shots or at the very least get extremely close. I can't guarantee you you'll have Tony's artistic ability, but that's a subject for another thread. :)

Wow, steady on Ken! Glad you like the images from a great camera of a beautiful area of the UK. I can't take too much credit but thanks for your kind words. :)

I want to get some clips with a lot movement to test out the HDV encoder. I am praying for wind as we have a huge sailing, windsurfing and kite boarding community here. Should make for a good motion test.

I'll also capture a couple of low-light clips to show there is absolutely no lack of low light ability with this camera.

Cheers
TT

[Ing Poh Hii]

Thank you Ken & Tony,

Look like I have to visit a shop which has FX7, V1 & A1 all turn on ready for me to play around... another thread on this forum suggesting a real good V1 will only be available by June 2007, that is scaring news.. (or scandal business practise!!) can't believe Sony would do thing like that. So the choice is really between FX7 & A1 then.. should be handy to make a decision when I can try out before paying.. any shop at London or Reading you would recommend ?

And surely I won't be as skillful as Tony but at least I don't want my new gear is too bad from what Tony have :-].

ta~

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Ken

I set the sharpness down to 3 which, for me, gives a more natural look at a cost of a bit of faux resolution. Sharpness at 7 is way too edgy for my taste and at 15 it looks down right ugly.

When I look at my I vs P images, I really do see a "clearer" pix from I and a softer from P. Why? I really don't know.

I video does come from two 960x1080 captures while P comes from 1 -- so maybe I naturally starts with more information.

So IF one wants a softer look with P -- it may come naturally. Could you, or others, test to see if your preference for 3 is the same for P and I. Perhaps there will be different settings for I and P.

I used 5 because that was the Sony Cine default. I worry that at "3" you might be removing detail you will need by gen 3 or 5.

Also, the sharpness setting of the monitor is critical.

And so MAY be HDMI vs Component.

[Andrew Ott]

How is everybody else DLing these?

I downloaded one through the rapidshare thing (which seems like they try to make it so you can't download it), but since I am not a member I have to wait 30 minutes before I can download another file.

[Dominic Jones]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

So IF one wants a softer look with P -- it may come naturally.

Sony may have set the DSP differently for the P modes, as most people shooting P are going for a more "filmic" look and generally turn their sharpness down anyway - it wouldn't be a bad call if they have, imo.

If that is the case, it might lead to some users seriously over-softening their settings using settings carried over from previous cameras though...

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

When I look at my I vs P images, I really do see a "clearer" pix from I and a softer from P. Why? I really don't know.

I video does come from two 960x1080 captures while P comes from 1 -- so maybe I naturally starts with more information.

So IF one wants a softer look with P -- it may come naturally. Could you, or others, test to see if your preference for 3 is the same for P and I. Perhaps there will be different settings for I and P.

I used 5 because that was the Sony Cine default. I worry that at "3" you might be removing detail you will need by gen 3 or 5.

Also, the sharpness setting of the monitor is critical.

And so MAY be HDMI vs Component.

Steve, I do find that 3 is a bit soft even in the I mode. I do understand what Tony is saying by "Faux" sharpness, but I find that below a certain point you may be removing real detail. A scene with grass shows every blade of grass @ a sharpness of "7", but as you begin to reduce sharpness, you do lose the ability to see each distinct blade of grass. The EE I spoke of is not visible in most scenes, but when it's there it is pretty obvious. Sony has always been very aggressive in the EE department. Your "5" might be a better compromise.

[Dominic Jones]

I think it's worth bearing in mind in these conversations that EE/sharpening can always be added in post, but not removed.

It's better to shoot a little soft and sharpen to taste, imho - especially when shooting chroma key footage...

That said, I'm sure everyone will have their own theories on the best approach - that's no bad thing, as it's these little differences that lead to different styles!

[Tony Tremble]

0 sharpening, 24/25P, plus type 2 cine gamma and cinematone colour will have a very, er, ffff....., er, non video look about it. :)

I am thankful we finally have a camera that has such a high native resolution we have a choice of what sharpening level to apply. I am all too familiar with the too much or not enough choice we were previously treated to. :)

TT

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

A scene with grass shows every blade of grass @ a sharpness of "7", but as you begin to reduce sharpness, you do lose the ability to see each distinct blade of grass. The EE I spoke of is not visible in most scenes, but when it's there it is pretty obvious. Sony has always been very aggressive in the EE department. Your "5" might be a better compromise.

I'm going to leave it at "7" for video as I want every blade visible. My concern is in P. It's interesting that folks say the want their video to be softer, yet when I posted P at 5 and I at 5 -- they didn't see the softer as more filimic. They saw it as soft.

So do folks REALLY want soft or have they learned they should want it soft?

[Rick Hensley]

Tom's tests have shown that the Canon A1 in 24f automatically has a 10% lower resolution.

[Ruben Senderey]

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble

Clip1, Sunset (26MB) - H264,1280x720P deinterlaced from 1080i50.
http://rapidshare.com/files/8063032/Sunset.mov.html

Clip2, Lighthouse, Fishermen, Zoom out (Shows the incredible reach of the lens) (99MB) - Compression as before.
http://rapidshare.com/files/8099877/...dBill.mov.html

Clip3, Fog bank rolling off The Ridgeway into farm land below, mid morning. (90MB) Same compression.
http://rapidshare.com/files/8147767/...tLand.mov.html

The compression reduces the 3D effect of the V1 images. The fence post in the first scene stands out much more when viewing the original than the QT. Switching between QT and FCP has proven to me the 3D effect is real.
Settings for Clip3, Sharpness 3, CineGamme type1, Cinematone colour ON, Black Compress. All other PP settings default.

TT

CANT DOWNLOD CLIPS ANY TIPS PLEASE HELP

[Ray Bell]

Click on one of the links Tony has set up.
When the web page loads, navigate into the chart and click on " free "

Another web page will load, Now navigate down and you should see a counter clicking off around the center of the page....

after the counter is finished then another web page will load, navigate down and you will see a scrambled mess of numbers and letters...

pick out the highlighted ones and enter them into the box

now just hit the enter key... it should start to download....

you can't download all three at one time...

Hope this helps...

PITA it is, buts its free...

[Thomas Smet]

When I use MSN the clips will not work and the rapidshare website tells me that the limit has been reached for the downloads. If you also use MSN try to just use the normal Internet Explorer and it should work.