Z1 First Impressions

Bryan McCullough · January 30th, 2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Hardwick
If you enter the menu you can have this audio meter taking up a good deal of viewfinder real-estate, and it all goes to show that a 4:3 LCD finder would have been a good idea.

Sorry, what I was trying to ask about was seeing audio levels on the camera.

If there are levels you can see, I wonder why the chart says no audio monitor.

Boyd Ostroff · January 30th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Personally it sounds like the Z1 has a number of upgrades over the FX1 which would interest me. The underscan feature for the viewfinder/LCD is a really nice feature which isn't available on any other prosumer camcorder. Also nice to be able to use the LCD and viewfinder together - I'm always wishing my PDX-10 would do that. The PAL/NTSC switch seems like a huge advantage as well. And I also see a bunch of smaller nice touches in these discussions and Chris' chart.

I would agree however that the FX1 is the most bang for the buck, and like the VX-2000/PD-150 you get the same optics and CCD's. Three and a half years ago I decided to buy a PD-150, but since it was new and very popular at that time, nobody had them in stock. So I ended up getting a VX-2000 - it was about $1,000 cheaper. Does any of this sound familiar? :-)

I've been happy with my VX-2000, but honestly I always wished that I had gotten the PD-150. It seems like we're going through a similar phase right now. To avoid buyer's remorse, it's probably worth some serious soul searching before making a decision like this.

David Gomez · January 30th, 2005, 10:21 AM

So are you able to turn off the wind filters altogether on the Z1?

I think I lost some low frequencies, and got an undesirable mid range boost on the FX1 because of a default wind cut filter that can't be turned off.

Thanks

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly :but you also get enhanced audio capabilities on the pro model which include more fiters for wind, etc. So don't see the XLR adapters are the reason for the change, consider the electronics behind it.
-->>>

Tom Hardwick · January 30th, 2005, 10:28 AM

It might not be a popular thing to say, but the Z1U might well be more attractive to Native NTSC users than PAL People. Here in PAL land the feeling is that there's very little call to film in the NTSC format (there will be exceptions of course). Filmmakers planning on a transfer to film will know what I mean.

tom.

Joe Carney · January 30th, 2005, 11:15 AM

Barry, what I think Ignacio was trying to say is that since the standards are digital and if manufacturers made HDDVD players and HD TVsets compatible with any standard world wide (like better made DVD players are now) then shooting in 50i or 60i won't be the problem it is today with analog output. He may have point. it would be nice to not worry where the source came from.

My current home theater supports both NTSC and PAL (but not region 2 encoded dvd, only region free and region 1).

I have Denon AV Receiver and DVD player, and Misubishi RP TV. they all run on 110 or 220 electricity too. PCs are the same. So there mayt be something to the future not being dependent on where you live.

Shannon Rawls · January 30th, 2005, 11:48 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan McCullough : Sorry, what I was trying to ask about was seeing audio levels on the camera.

If there are levels you can see, I wonder why the chart says no audio monitor. -->>>

Bryan, yes! You can see the audio levels on the camera by pressing the "STATUS CHECK" button and they will pop up.

but that's not all...

While shooting, it will give you levels as well. Very small in the lower right hand corner you'll see two bar metters dancing away as you hear the sound. The only way to get those meters in the lower right corner is if you have the audio on "MAN". If it is on AUTO, they dissapear.

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff :
I've been happy with my VX-2000, but honestly I always wished that I had gotten the PD-150. -->>>

Boyd, that alone is one of the MAIN reason, I got the Z1U. Years ago, I owned a Ford Mustang V6. Why? because I couldn't 'justify' the upgrade to a GT 5.0. The V6 had all the same amenities as the GT 5.0 had. AC, Power everything, Look, and even with the V6, I was able to get speeding tickets, etc...

However....I always wanted that 5.0. My friends who had it, always said "Ha, but shannon, your shit is a V6, you can't ride with us!"

Years, later I got a 5.0, and then eventually a Saleen. After that, I told myself, get the BIGGEST & BEST model of ANYTHING that I buy. Forget the price, forget the reason....because when you do....it will just "Feel Better" when you're behind the wheel driving it!

Nothing different here. *smile* I could have bought a FX1 for a grand or so less....but I would have always owned someting that just didn't FEEL right when holding it. Not me. Z1U or nothing at all.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Gomez : So are you able to turn off the wind filters altogether on the Z1? -->>>

David, you sure as heck can. You can turn ALL THAT STUFF off if you want to. Wind, AGC, Limiter...all of it and open the Mics up wide open.

- ShannonRawls.com

Dave Campbell · January 30th, 2005, 12:06 PM

I am going through the exact same emotional battle.
I know the biggest band for the buck is the fx1, but, I always wanted the XLR's on the camera so I did not have to hassle with an add on piece. So far I have heard nothing negative about the Z1.

Dave

Boyd Ostroff · January 30th, 2005, 01:53 PM

The only negative I can see so far is whether you consider the added features justify the ~$1,200 price difference.

Ivan Hurtado · January 30th, 2005, 02:06 PM

What about the time code issue? is it fixed and there IS one in it?

You are speaking and speaking and im just not sure yet! Its like the Mustang... Mind and heart battle. And i like the add-ons like the focus puller and the mattbox. Its impossible... Best way to act is wait a little more(maybe some months) till all the analyze is done and i can think clearly at the options.

Money to burn burning my trousers...

Darren Kelly · January 30th, 2005, 02:15 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ivan Hurtado : What about the time code issue? is it fixed and there IS one in it?

The Z1U has timecode options, many of them. That is one of the differences between the two cameras.

The FX1 also has timecode, although not SMTPE timecode. The difference is suttle, but will be important to studio shooters, while most likely not that important to those folks who own and operate their own world.

DBK

Chris Hurd · January 30th, 2005, 02:38 PM

Ivan,

Compare FX1 vs. Z1U time code options using my chart at http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...compare.php#tc.

Hope this helps,

Bryan McCullough · January 30th, 2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shannon RawlsBryan, yes! You can see the audio levels on the camera by pressing the "STATUS CHECK" button and they will pop up.

but that's not all...

While shooting, it will give you levels as well. Very small in the lower right hand corner you'll see two bar metters dancing away as you hear the sound. The only way to get those meters in the lower right corner is if you have the audio on "MAN". If it is on AUTO, they dissapear.

Ok, please forgive me and I am prepared to take the smack upside the head for being dense.

I know you have a Z1, so I want to be sure I understand correctly. Can you monitor audio as you describe on the FX1?

Thank you so much for your help. I ride the short bus.

Chris Hurd · January 30th, 2005, 02:43 PM

I think Shannon was describing the Z1, not the FX1.

Or did I misread that entirely? Sorry for the confusion.

Bryan McCullough · January 30th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Hurd
I think Shannon was describing the Z1, not the FX1.

Or did I misread that entirely? Sorry for the confusion.

Yeah, that's why I asked.

When I first brought it up a few posts ago I was asking about the FX1, but I fear that detail may have gotten lost.

<Fingers crossed> I just don't know if I could get the FX1 if there's no way to monitor audio levels on it.

Chris Hurd · January 30th, 2005, 02:52 PM

Okay, some explanations regarding my comparison chart which list "Audio Monitoring" as a NO for the FX1 and a YES for the Z1: this refers to audio monitoring options, as described on Sony's Z1 technical fact sheet located at http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5331.

"Audio Monitoring: Various modes are available for audio monitoring, such as Ch1 and Ch2, Ch1 only, Ch2 only and Ch1+Ch2 (Mixed)."

Think of it as the same options you get with the Canon XL1 / XL1S / XL2: you can cycle through the various channels independently, or choose to hear the mix.

January 30th, 2005, 02:06 PM	#24
Ivan Hurtado Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Granada, Spain Posts: 75	What about the time code issue? is it fixed and there IS one in it? You are speaking and speaking and im just not sure yet! Its like the Mustang... Mind and heart battle. And i like the add-ons like the focus puller and the mattbox. Its impossible... Best way to act is wait a little more(maybe some months) till all the analyze is done and i can think clearly at the options. Money to burn burning my trousers... __________________ IvI

January 30th, 2005, 02:15 PM	#25
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Ivan Hurtado : What about the time code issue? is it fixed and there IS one in it? The Z1U has timecode options, many of them. That is one of the differences between the two cameras. The FX1 also has timecode, although not SMTPE timecode. The difference is suttle, but will be important to studio shooters, while most likely not that important to those folks who own and operate their own world. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

January 30th, 2005, 02:38 PM	#26
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Ivan, Compare FX1 vs. Z1U time code options using my chart at http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...compare.php#tc. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 30th, 2005, 02:43 PM	#28
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I think Shannon was describing the Z1, not the FX1. Or did I misread that entirely? Sorry for the confusion. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 30th, 2005, 02:52 PM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Okay, some explanations regarding my comparison chart which list "Audio Monitoring" as a NO for the FX1 and a YES for the Z1: this refers to audio monitoring options, as described on Sony's Z1 technical fact sheet located at http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5331. "Audio Monitoring: Various modes are available for audio monitoring, such as Ch1 and Ch2, Ch1 only, Ch2 only and Ch1+Ch2 (Mixed)." Think of it as the same options you get with the Canon XL1 / XL1S / XL2: you can cycle through the various channels independently, or choose to hear the mix. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 30th, 2005, 09:54 AM	#17
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Personally it sounds like the Z1 has a number of upgrades over the FX1 which would interest me. The underscan feature for the viewfinder/LCD is a really nice feature which isn't available on any other prosumer camcorder. Also nice to be able to use the LCD and viewfinder together - I'm always wishing my PDX-10 would do that. The PAL/NTSC switch seems like a huge advantage as well. And I also see a bunch of smaller nice touches in these discussions and Chris' chart. I would agree however that the FX1 is the most bang for the buck, and like the VX-2000/PD-150 you get the same optics and CCD's. Three and a half years ago I decided to buy a PD-150, but since it was new and very popular at that time, nobody had them in stock. So I ended up getting a VX-2000 - it was about $1,000 cheaper. Does any of this sound familiar? :-) I've been happy with my VX-2000, but honestly I always wished that I had gotten the PD-150. It seems like we're going through a similar phase right now. To avoid buyer's remorse, it's probably worth some serious soul searching before making a decision like this.

January 30th, 2005, 10:21 AM	#18
David Gomez Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 50	So are you able to turn off the wind filters altogether on the Z1? I think I lost some low frequencies, and got an undesirable mid range boost on the FX1 because of a default wind cut filter that can't be turned off. Thanks <<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly :but you also get enhanced audio capabilities on the pro model which include more fiters for wind, etc. So don't see the XLR adapters are the reason for the change, consider the electronics behind it. -->>>

January 30th, 2005, 10:28 AM	#19
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	It might not be a popular thing to say, but the Z1U might well be more attractive to Native NTSC users than PAL People. Here in PAL land the feeling is that there's very little call to film in the NTSC format (there will be exceptions of course). Filmmakers planning on a transfer to film will know what I mean. tom.

January 30th, 2005, 11:15 AM	#20
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Barry, what I think Ignacio was trying to say is that since the standards are digital and if manufacturers made HDDVD players and HD TVsets compatible with any standard world wide (like better made DVD players are now) then shooting in 50i or 60i won't be the problem it is today with analog output. He may have point. it would be nice to not worry where the source came from. My current home theater supports both NTSC and PAL (but not region 2 encoded dvd, only region free and region 1). I have Denon AV Receiver and DVD player, and Misubishi RP TV. they all run on 110 or 220 electricity too. PCs are the same. So there mayt be something to the future not being dependent on where you live.

January 30th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#21
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan McCullough : Sorry, what I was trying to ask about was seeing audio levels on the camera. If there are levels you can see, I wonder why the chart says no audio monitor. -->>> Bryan, yes! You can see the audio levels on the camera by pressing the "STATUS CHECK" button and they will pop up. but that's not all... While shooting, it will give you levels as well. Very small in the lower right hand corner you'll see two bar metters dancing away as you hear the sound. The only way to get those meters in the lower right corner is if you have the audio on "MAN". If it is on AUTO, they dissapear. <<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : I've been happy with my VX-2000, but honestly I always wished that I had gotten the PD-150. -->>> Boyd, that alone is one of the MAIN reason, I got the Z1U. Years ago, I owned a Ford Mustang V6. Why? because I couldn't 'justify' the upgrade to a GT 5.0. The V6 had all the same amenities as the GT 5.0 had. AC, Power everything, Look, and even with the V6, I was able to get speeding tickets, etc... However....I always wanted that 5.0. My friends who had it, always said "Ha, but shannon, your shit is a V6, you can't ride with us!" Years, later I got a 5.0, and then eventually a Saleen. After that, I told myself, get the BIGGEST & BEST model of ANYTHING that I buy. Forget the price, forget the reason....because when you do....it will just "Feel Better" when you're behind the wheel driving it! Nothing different here. smile I could have bought a FX1 for a grand or so less....but I would have always owned someting that just didn't FEEL right when holding it. Not me. Z1U or nothing at all. <<<-- Originally posted by David Gomez : So are you able to turn off the wind filters altogether on the Z1? -->>> David, you sure as heck can. You can turn ALL THAT STUFF off if you want to. Wind, AGC, Limiter...all of it and open the Mics up wide open. - ShannonRawls.com

January 30th, 2005, 12:06 PM	#22
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	I am going through the exact same emotional battle. I know the biggest band for the buck is the fx1, but, I always wanted the XLR's on the camera so I did not have to hassle with an add on piece. So far I have heard nothing negative about the Z1. Dave

January 30th, 2005, 01:53 PM	#23
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	The only negative I can see so far is whether you consider the added features justify the ~$1,200 price difference.