Z1 First Impressions

Yuli Krudo · January 30th, 2005, 03:02 PM

Pls. Note the new FX1 / Z1 are lot more heavier and consume
lot more power !

2 x 970 Batteries and a DvRigPro are highly recommended.

Ignacio Rodriguez · January 30th, 2005, 05:23 PM

> The camera has no provision to do so. Doing so would
> create a new format, probably called something like HDVCAM.

Thank You Barry for the clarification. Shocking! So even if we spend the extra money on the Z1 we will have to save up for a hard disk Firewire recording device... that I think doesn't even existe yet! Scary.

> In the US it's 1080/24p, 1080/30p, or 1080/60i, no provision
> for 25p or 50i. Or it's 720/24p, 720/30p, or 720/60p, with no
> provision for 25p or 50p.

I know. But Joe understood what I meant. Even here where HD broadcasting is only experimental, HD ready sets sold seem to be capable of synching to 50i and 25p signals as well as 60i and 30p. Your FCC mandates the broadcast standard but doesn't say TV sets can't display other modes. In a few years, a large number of TVs will be 1080i50-compatible, even in NTSC-land. So my hypothesis is that if so much material is originated in 50i even in NTSC-following countries like the US, in a few years there will be so much 50i (and 25p) material and display capability, that it will not make much sense to enforce 30p and 60i for broadcasting, anywhere.

Rishard Chapoteau · January 31st, 2005, 07:59 PM

Thanx for the info. I was really debating on a z1, but now I might just stick save the money and get the FX1 instead.

Kaku Ito · February 1st, 2005, 09:47 AM

Hi Mark,

Another thing I envy Z1 over FX1 is the overriding the autofocus with manual. Can you tell me how well or bad it works?

Best,

Kaku

Boyd Ostroff · February 1st, 2005, 10:45 AM

It also appears that you can remove more of the text from the Z1 display, but it wasn't clear to me whether you could make it all go away in recording mode (eg: only see the image itself on the LCD/viewfinder with no f-stops, battery info, etc). That would be a really nice feature, my other Sony cameras have so much stuff filling the screen, and the font is so big...

Chris Hurd · February 1st, 2005, 11:00 AM

Indeed, the Z1 has an "all displays off" option.

See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...compare.php#di.

Boyd Ostroff · February 1st, 2005, 01:30 PM

Duh... as usual the answer was right under my nose! Thanks Chris.

Steve Crisdale · February 1st, 2005, 06:14 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green :

I had hoped for a worldwide standard as well, but that's not what we got. In the US it's 1080/24p, 1080/30p, or 1080/60i, no provision for 25p or 50i. Or it's 720/24p, 720/30p, or 720/60p, with no provision for 25p or 50p.

Those are the broadcast standards that have been settled on and agreed on, those are the signals that are being broadcast now, and those are the signals that the HDTV sets in America can display.

In Europe, they're still deciding, but apparently they're deciding between 720/50p and 1080/50i... no provision for 60i! So if things go the way they're going, we will *not* have a worldwide standard! It'll be almost as bad as PAL/NTSC, with the difference that at least the frames will be the same size this time.

Unless some of our European friends do some fierce lobbying to get 60i/30p/60p included in the EBU recommendation, there will be no worldwide HDTV standard. It's too late for the US, we locked in our broadcast standards almost seven years ago, but it's not too late for the EBU... -->>>

Once upon a time (about 3 years ago actually) I was as confused about all this HD standards stuff; as many coming to this forum appear to be. One of the greatest factors leading to such confusion is the mistaken belief that politicians and legislators can channel 'industry' towards a goal that may not be in the manufacturers' interest.

My HD experience here in Australia indicates how little the standards set by legislators will play in the actual delivery of HD FTA material, let alone the capabilities of the hardware required to view that material. To all intents and purposes Australia is a PAL region with HD legislation requiring a minimum 720p signal to comply. Not all of our FTA stations have complied, and continue broadcasting Extended Definition (576p) material despite the derision of viewers, and complaints to the regulatory body.

Does this PAL standard rule out the use or viewing of NTSC HD video? NO WAY!!! The majority of prime-time FTA HD programming is from NTSC sources, and I'd bet that not all of that has been transcoded before it hits our shores....

What manufacturer is going to run two seperate production lines for essentially the exact same product?!!
It just makes economic sense to provide PAL and NTSC capabilities in the one set.
Every true HDTV I've encountered is able to handle both, and my HD10u NTSC stuff plays back on my HDTV as well as my FX-1e PAL material and FTA PAL signals do.

Check the specs before buying a HDTV to be absolutely certain, but I'm predicting that the PAL/NTSC incompatability issue will go down in history as the urban myth that it deserves to be.

Bryan McCullough · February 8th, 2005, 09:20 AM

In case anyone cares, the answer to my above question about getting audio levels on the FX1 is yes.

When in manual audio mode levels appear on the screen.

When in auto audio, no levels.

Dave Campbell · February 8th, 2005, 09:30 AM

Ccool. Yes, I think I am going to get the fx1. I just can not see the value for the extra money with the z1. (I would rather buy the DVD player, etc. )I have used the vx1000 and vx2000 for years, and my xlr adapter, when needed, works great.

So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?

Dave

Bryan McCullough · February 8th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Campbell
So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?

My guess would be 'yes', otherwise what's the good of the levels?

Though I will confirm tomorrow (hopefully) when mine arrives.

Khoi Pham · February 8th, 2005, 05:32 PM

"So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?"

If you are talking about a XLR adapter then I don't know but if you are using something like a Beachtek then yes.

Khoi Pham · February 8th, 2005, 05:43 PM

"So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?"

If you are talking about a XLR adapter then I don't know but if you are using something like a Beachtek then yes.

Dave Campbell · February 8th, 2005, 06:58 PM

Yea, something like a beachtek

dave

January 30th, 2005, 05:23 PM	#32
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	> The camera has no provision to do so. Doing so would > create a new format, probably called something like HDVCAM. Thank You Barry for the clarification. Shocking! So even if we spend the extra money on the Z1 we will have to save up for a hard disk Firewire recording device... that I think doesn't even existe yet! Scary. > In the US it's 1080/24p, 1080/30p, or 1080/60i, no provision > for 25p or 50i. Or it's 720/24p, 720/30p, or 720/60p, with no > provision for 25p or 50p. I know. But Joe understood what I meant. Even here where HD broadcasting is only experimental, HD ready sets sold seem to be capable of synching to 50i and 25p signals as well as 60i and 30p. Your FCC mandates the broadcast standard but doesn't say TV sets can't display other modes. In a few years, a large number of TVs will be 1080i50-compatible, even in NTSC-land. So my hypothesis is that if so much material is originated in 50i even in NTSC-following countries like the US, in a few years there will be so much 50i (and 25p) material and display capability, that it will not make much sense to enforce 30p and 60i for broadcasting, anywhere. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

February 1st, 2005, 11:00 AM	#36
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Indeed, the Z1 has an "all displays off" option. See http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony...compare.php#di. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 8th, 2005, 05:32 PM	#42
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	"So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?" If you are talking about a XLR adapter then I don't know but if you are using something like a Beachtek then yes. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

February 8th, 2005, 05:43 PM	#43
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	"So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels?" If you are talking about a XLR adapter then I don't know but if you are using something like a Beachtek then yes. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

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January 30th, 2005, 03:02 PM	#31
Yuli Krudo New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 20	Pls. Note the new FX1 / Z1 are lot more heavier and consume lot more power ! 2 x 970 Batteries and a DvRigPro are highly recommended.

January 31st, 2005, 07:59 PM	#33
Rishard Chapoteau Tourist Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3	Thanx for the info. I was really debating on a z1, but now I might just stick save the money and get the FX1 instead.

February 1st, 2005, 09:47 AM	#34
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Hi Mark, Another thing I envy Z1 over FX1 is the overriding the autofocus with manual. Can you tell me how well or bad it works? Best, Kaku

February 1st, 2005, 10:45 AM	#35
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	It also appears that you can remove more of the text from the Z1 display, but it wasn't clear to me whether you could make it all go away in recording mode (eg: only see the image itself on the LCD/viewfinder with no f-stops, battery info, etc). That would be a really nice feature, my other Sony cameras have so much stuff filling the screen, and the font is so big...

February 1st, 2005, 01:30 PM	#37
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Duh... as usual the answer was right under my nose! Thanks Chris.

February 1st, 2005, 06:14 PM	#38
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : I had hoped for a worldwide standard as well, but that's not what we got. In the US it's 1080/24p, 1080/30p, or 1080/60i, no provision for 25p or 50i. Or it's 720/24p, 720/30p, or 720/60p, with no provision for 25p or 50p. Those are the broadcast standards that have been settled on and agreed on, those are the signals that are being broadcast now, and those are the signals that the HDTV sets in America can display. In Europe, they're still deciding, but apparently they're deciding between 720/50p and 1080/50i... no provision for 60i! So if things go the way they're going, we will not have a worldwide standard! It'll be almost as bad as PAL/NTSC, with the difference that at least the frames will be the same size this time. Unless some of our European friends do some fierce lobbying to get 60i/30p/60p included in the EBU recommendation, there will be no worldwide HDTV standard. It's too late for the US, we locked in our broadcast standards almost seven years ago, but it's not too late for the EBU... -->>> Once upon a time (about 3 years ago actually) I was as confused about all this HD standards stuff; as many coming to this forum appear to be. One of the greatest factors leading to such confusion is the mistaken belief that politicians and legislators can channel 'industry' towards a goal that may not be in the manufacturers' interest. My HD experience here in Australia indicates how little the standards set by legislators will play in the actual delivery of HD FTA material, let alone the capabilities of the hardware required to view that material. To all intents and purposes Australia is a PAL region with HD legislation requiring a minimum 720p signal to comply. Not all of our FTA stations have complied, and continue broadcasting Extended Definition (576p) material despite the derision of viewers, and complaints to the regulatory body. Does this PAL standard rule out the use or viewing of NTSC HD video? NO WAY!!! The majority of prime-time FTA HD programming is from NTSC sources, and I'd bet that not all of that has been transcoded before it hits our shores.... What manufacturer is going to run two seperate production lines for essentially the exact same product?!! It just makes economic sense to provide PAL and NTSC capabilities in the one set. Every true HDTV I've encountered is able to handle both, and my HD10u NTSC stuff plays back on my HDTV as well as my FX-1e PAL material and FTA PAL signals do. Check the specs before buying a HDTV to be absolutely certain, but I'm predicting that the PAL/NTSC incompatability issue will go down in history as the urban myth that it deserves to be.

February 8th, 2005, 09:20 AM	#39
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	In case anyone cares, the answer to my above question about getting audio levels on the FX1 is yes. When in manual audio mode levels appear on the screen. When in auto audio, no levels.

February 8th, 2005, 09:30 AM	#40
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Ccool. Yes, I think I am going to get the fx1. I just can not see the value for the extra money with the z1. (I would rather buy the DVD player, etc. )I have used the vx1000 and vx2000 for years, and my xlr adapter, when needed, works great. So, when in manual with the fx1, and if I am using a xlr input, would this mean that if I have the mics at different levels, the audio meter on the FX1 would show them at different levels? Dave

February 8th, 2005, 06:58 PM	#44
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Yea, something like a beachtek dave