Z1/FX1 on a large theater screen. How it looks like?

Steve Crisdale · April 2nd, 2005, 05:06 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- IMHO. if you take emotion, branding, and marketing out of the equation, technology is pointing very clearly in only one direction. -->>>

It's good to know that you have an honest opinion, because there's so much hype, bollocks and dis-information being shoved around by a number of people about 720p versus 1080i at the moment.

Of course honest opinions are like certain beliefs sometimes.... not only mis-guided, but down-right purile once the blind faith they're based on is stripped away.

It's a shame that you haven't been dispassionate enough to apply your same principles to the advice you provide.

The question was regarding viewing FX-1/Z1 material on a theatre size screen.

Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips on such a screen, and then provided your opinion about your impressions of that compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience.

All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience, unless of course you have viewed currently available 720p HDV and 1080i HDV on a theatre screen, either digitally projected on appropriate equipment that has been correctly set-up.... or perhaps the same HDV sources transferred to film.

If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out.

Why not head in the direction you see so clearly being pointed out, and leave the rest to enjoy heading in the direction they've found for themselves...... unless you feel threatened by people exercising their democratic rights?

BTW Radek, Stupendous means more than just trem-endous.... it's so amazing it's stup-ifying!!

Steve Mullen · April 2nd, 2005, 06:06 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :

"Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience."

Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions?

However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100.

"All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience."

Well since I have the prior experience you feel you have the right to demand, I guess that you owe me an appology -- now.

Moreover, one doesn't need experience -- one needs to understand the technology and it's implications on how it affects images. Experience is totally subjective. You may not even know what bad de-interlacing looks like. So you'll see no problem. You may think interlace flicker and interlace twitter are simply part of what video looks like. So you think that's the best video can be. I certainly cannot trust your eyes -- nor can you trust mine.

In the end, an understanding of technology plus measurements lead to objective judgements. Not a popular position in a world where millions believe anyone's opinion is as good as another.

"If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out."

I'd suggest you go back and read carefully -- it's clear you have a great deal to learn about the technology of video projection.

Your comments are not only ugly, they are way OT.

Maheel Perera · April 2nd, 2005, 11:31 PM

I have done a film transfer from some clips that were published on DV Info site. Those clips were de interlaced and croped to Cinemascope aspect ratio and stretched to fit correctly for a Cinemascope print. I have sent two copies of that transfer to evaulate but so far receive no reply from them other than that they receive the copy. May be due to difficulty in finding a projector.

If you have access to a 35 mm Film Projector I will send you a copy to see for your self. But ONLY IF YOU CAN VIEW THE FOOTAGE.

Steve Crisdale · April 3rd, 2005, 03:34 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :

"Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience."

Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions?

However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100. -->>>

Why was it essential to mis-quote? Strange you left out "on such a screen"...

Is your projector a High Definition projector capable of proper 1080i as well as 720p display? And is your screen a theatre sized screen?

For the sake of clarification; I'm sure you won't mind stating the screen size, as well as the projector's specifications, that you used to view the HDV material.

And I'll ask the question again...
Have you watched HDV material from the only currently available HDV camcorders, projected by an adequately specificationed High Definition projector that is 1080 and 720 capable, on a Theatre Size screen?

It's a simple enough question to answer....

Radek Svoboda · April 3rd, 2005, 05:46 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : At NAB, Sony will have several film segments to show.
The Latin America launch of the Z1 was done on film vs HDV, and it was stupendous, IMO. Very impressive quality. My only wish was that I had something shot on an Arriflex 35 to compare it to right there/then, as intercut or side by side or A/B or something, because I was struggling to believe what I was seeing. Still sort of am struggling with it, but I've got a copy of the original HDV footage, so I know it wasn't a dream. -->>>

Now that I know what stupendous means, I think I found answer. I trust Douglas Spotted Eagle. Thanks Douglas and Steve Crisdale.

Douglas, how big was screen during Latin American introduction?

Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it?

JVC and Panasonic may possible have better cameras. But if 3,000 euro camera can be transfered to film and projected to a large theater screen, that is good enough for me. Maybe year from now 1080p will cost what 1080i costs today. That is when I'll upgrade.

Steve Mullen · April 3rd, 2005, 08:50 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :
Look Stevie, I'll give you one anwser and I've had it with your attitude.

Strange you left out "on such a screen"

I was at the Sony Z1 introduction so saw Z1 from a Qualia on "some big" screen. The same evening a saw it from a Sanyo on some kind of medium sized screen.

Therefore, "Such a screen" means nothing. There are a good 2 dozen types of screen material. And, if you knew anything about screens you would know that HOW something looks depends on where the projector is placed (above/below) the center line and what the screen's power is.

So I did not claim I saw it on a "such a screen". What screen would that be?

Now you go back and read my post and learn about de-interlacing and its critical importance to projecting interlaced video NO MATTER THE SCREEN OR PROJECTOR.

Steve Mullen · April 3rd, 2005, 08:55 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : <<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it? -->>>

You did! At the Sony theater when they introduced the Z1. Maybe 30' diagonal? Maybe bigger?

It was damn impressive looking! I think they may have mentioned the cost? $100K? And, likely perfectly calibrated.

Daniel Lundmark · June 9th, 2005, 11:23 PM

Check out the following thread, another post on the original topic of this thread:

FX1 Film Transfer
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...light=fx1+film

Radek Svoboda · June 10th, 2005, 04:24 AM

So far only Steve Mullen and DSE have seen FX/Z1 footage on large theater screen and it looked superb. DSE also saw footage transfered to film, it looked superb. Has anyone else see the footage on theater screen either projected from 1080p projector or film projectoor? Has anyone made film with this camera that was shown in theater?

Radek

Douglas Spotted Eagle · June 10th, 2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radek Svoboda

So far only Steve Mullen and DSE have seen FX/Z1 footage on large theater screen and it looked superb. DSE also saw footage transfered to film, it looked superb. Has anyone else see the footage on theater screen either projected from 1080p projector or film projectoor? Has anyone made film with this camera that was shown in theater?

Radek

Maybe we're the only ones who posted about it, but there are several hundred if not thousands of people who have seen this. The entire Latin America touring release of the Z1 was done on film, not tape. It would be great if others who saw it were part of this forum, and perhaps they are. Maybe someone else can chime in.
There is a new feature in post right now, heading for film, that a production company in Las Vegas is managing. I've seen their previous gone-to-film projects, all very good stuff. I'll keep you posted as it comes.

Radek Svoboda · June 10th, 2005, 08:13 AM

DSE,

We have all seen HDCAM film productions. They can look crap or they can look very good. I saw Spy Kids 2 and picture was excellent. Everything Rodriguez does with digital acquisition looks top notch.

I don't know how he shot Once Upon a Time in Mexico, if it was shot with F900's, but probably was. I don't think he records to hard discs. I think it's all to tape. I undeerstand latest version of F900 has better colors. Maybe that what he used. I tell you, it looked sharp like 70 mm. If used F950's please let me know. He now owns them.

I own FX1E and it is excellent camera. If I used it for film out and had top notch DP, what can I expect? Could picture be good enough for theater release? I think it would.

Episode 2 picture qulity was so bad. Compared to Once Upon a Time was no comparison. Can little Sony make picture quality look like something in between the two films, as its top quality limit, or would Episode 2 quality be about max one can hope for?

Radek

Maheel Perera · June 11th, 2005, 09:13 PM

on this very page (7th post from the top) I offered a free sample of the transfer I have made (FREE OF CHARGE).But it will be for some one who does have access to a film projector to view it. So far I did not receive any request. Surprisingly it seems no one has read that post or completely ignored it.

Maheel Perera · June 11th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Sorry, it was the 3rd post from the top.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · June 11th, 2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maheel Perera

on this very page (7th post from the top) I offered a free sample of the transfer I have made (FREE OF CHARGE).But it will be for some one who does have access to a film projector to view it. So far I did not receive any request. Surprisingly it seems no one has read that post or completely ignored it.

I think many have seen it, but the question is, how many have access to a 35mm projector? I surely don't, except at the local planetarium, and they've made it pretty clear that they're not interested in allowing much of anything in there except what they produce.

Bill Pryor · June 12th, 2005, 11:10 AM

I have access to 35mm projection and would like to see this footage. Email me if you want to send it and I'll give you the info. If you do send it, I'd like to know how it was shot and all pertinent details. I can have it projected in a theater with a 48' screen, and/or in one of the smaller ones with a much shorter throw and smaller screen.

April 2nd, 2005, 06:06 PM	#17
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale : "Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience." Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions? However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100. "All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience." Well since I have the prior experience you feel you have the right to demand, I guess that you owe me an appology -- now. Moreover, one doesn't need experience -- one needs to understand the technology and it's implications on how it affects images. Experience is totally subjective. You may not even know what bad de-interlacing looks like. So you'll see no problem. You may think interlace flicker and interlace twitter are simply part of what video looks like. So you think that's the best video can be. I certainly cannot trust your eyes -- nor can you trust mine. In the end, an understanding of technology plus measurements lead to objective judgements. Not a popular position in a world where millions believe anyone's opinion is as good as another. "If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out." I'd suggest you go back and read carefully -- it's clear you have a great deal to learn about the technology of video projection. Your comments are not only ugly, they are way OT. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

April 3rd, 2005, 08:50 AM	#21
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale : Look Stevie, I'll give you one anwser and I've had it with your attitude. Strange you left out "on such a screen" I was at the Sony Z1 introduction so saw Z1 from a Qualia on "some big" screen. The same evening a saw it from a Sanyo on some kind of medium sized screen. Therefore, "Such a screen" means nothing. There are a good 2 dozen types of screen material. And, if you knew anything about screens you would know that HOW something looks depends on where the projector is placed (above/below) the center line and what the screen's power is. So I did not claim I saw it on a "such a screen". What screen would that be? Now you go back and read my post and learn about de-interlacing and its critical importance to projecting interlaced video NO MATTER THE SCREEN OR PROJECTOR. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

April 3rd, 2005, 08:55 AM	#22
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : <<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it? -->>> You did! At the Sony theater when they introduced the Z1. Maybe 30' diagonal? Maybe bigger? It was damn impressive looking! I think they may have mentioned the cost? $100K? And, likely perfectly calibrated. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

June 9th, 2005, 11:23 PM	#23
Daniel Lundmark New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 12	Other Post on same topic Check out the following thread, another post on the original topic of this thread: FX1 Film Transfer http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...light=fx1+film

April 2nd, 2005, 05:06 PM	#16
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- IMHO. if you take emotion, branding, and marketing out of the equation, technology is pointing very clearly in only one direction. -->>> It's good to know that you have an honest opinion, because there's so much hype, bollocks and dis-information being shoved around by a number of people about 720p versus 1080i at the moment. Of course honest opinions are like certain beliefs sometimes.... not only mis-guided, but down-right purile once the blind faith they're based on is stripped away. It's a shame that you haven't been dispassionate enough to apply your same principles to the advice you provide. The question was regarding viewing FX-1/Z1 material on a theatre size screen. Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips on such a screen, and then provided your opinion about your impressions of that compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience. All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience, unless of course you have viewed currently available 720p HDV and 1080i HDV on a theatre screen, either digitally projected on appropriate equipment that has been correctly set-up.... or perhaps the same HDV sources transferred to film. If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out. Why not head in the direction you see so clearly being pointed out, and leave the rest to enjoy heading in the direction they've found for themselves...... unless you feel threatened by people exercising their democratic rights? BTW Radek, Stupendous means more than just trem-endous.... it's so amazing it's stup-ifying!!

April 2nd, 2005, 11:31 PM	#18
Maheel Perera Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sri Lanka Posts: 128	I have done a film transfer from some clips that were published on DV Info site. Those clips were de interlaced and croped to Cinemascope aspect ratio and stretched to fit correctly for a Cinemascope print. I have sent two copies of that transfer to evaulate but so far receive no reply from them other than that they receive the copy. May be due to difficulty in finding a projector. If you have access to a 35 mm Film Projector I will send you a copy to see for your self. But ONLY IF YOU CAN VIEW THE FOOTAGE.

April 3rd, 2005, 03:34 AM	#19
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale : "Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience." Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions? However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100. -->>> Why was it essential to mis-quote? Strange you left out "on such a screen"... Is your projector a High Definition projector capable of proper 1080i as well as 720p display? And is your screen a theatre sized screen? For the sake of clarification; I'm sure you won't mind stating the screen size, as well as the projector's specifications, that you used to view the HDV material. And I'll ask the question again... Have you watched HDV material from the only currently available HDV camcorders, projected by an adequately specificationed High Definition projector that is 1080 and 720 capable, on a Theatre Size screen? It's a simple enough question to answer....

April 3rd, 2005, 05:46 AM	#20
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : At NAB, Sony will have several film segments to show. The Latin America launch of the Z1 was done on film vs HDV, and it was stupendous, IMO. Very impressive quality. My only wish was that I had something shot on an Arriflex 35 to compare it to right there/then, as intercut or side by side or A/B or something, because I was struggling to believe what I was seeing. Still sort of am struggling with it, but I've got a copy of the original HDV footage, so I know it wasn't a dream. -->>> Now that I know what stupendous means, I think I found answer. I trust Douglas Spotted Eagle. Thanks Douglas and Steve Crisdale. Douglas, how big was screen during Latin American introduction? Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it? JVC and Panasonic may possible have better cameras. But if 3,000 euro camera can be transfered to film and projected to a large theater screen, that is good enough for me. Maybe year from now 1080p will cost what 1080i costs today. That is when I'll upgrade.

June 10th, 2005, 04:24 AM	#24
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	So far only Steve Mullen and DSE have seen FX/Z1 footage on large theater screen and it looked superb. DSE also saw footage transfered to film, it looked superb. Has anyone else see the footage on theater screen either projected from 1080p projector or film projectoor? Has anyone made film with this camera that was shown in theater? Radek

June 10th, 2005, 08:13 AM	#26
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	DSE, We have all seen HDCAM film productions. They can look crap or they can look very good. I saw Spy Kids 2 and picture was excellent. Everything Rodriguez does with digital acquisition looks top notch. I don't know how he shot Once Upon a Time in Mexico, if it was shot with F900's, but probably was. I don't think he records to hard discs. I think it's all to tape. I undeerstand latest version of F900 has better colors. Maybe that what he used. I tell you, it looked sharp like 70 mm. If used F950's please let me know. He now owns them. I own FX1E and it is excellent camera. If I used it for film out and had top notch DP, what can I expect? Could picture be good enough for theater release? I think it would. Episode 2 picture qulity was so bad. Compared to Once Upon a Time was no comparison. Can little Sony make picture quality look like something in between the two films, as its top quality limit, or would Episode 2 quality be about max one can hope for? Radek

June 11th, 2005, 09:13 PM	#27
Maheel Perera Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sri Lanka Posts: 128	on this very page (7th post from the top) I offered a free sample of the transfer I have made (FREE OF CHARGE).But it will be for some one who does have access to a film projector to view it. So far I did not receive any request. Surprisingly it seems no one has read that post or completely ignored it.

June 11th, 2005, 09:14 PM	#28
Maheel Perera Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sri Lanka Posts: 128	Sorry, it was the 3rd post from the top.

June 12th, 2005, 11:10 AM	#30
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I have access to 35mm projection and would like to see this footage. Email me if you want to send it and I'll give you the info. If you do send it, I'd like to know how it was shot and all pertinent details. I can have it projected in a theater with a 48' screen, and/or in one of the smaller ones with a much shorter throw and smaller screen.