HDV Uncompressed at DVinfo.net

Jeff Mack · December 29th, 2005, 09:41 AM

Can anyone tell me how I could shoot a 4-5 camera (Z-1) project uncompressed? I know the cam will output uncompressed before it hits the tape but what setup can I get the uncompressed to the timeline?

Jeff

Kevin Wild · December 29th, 2005, 09:46 AM

Wow, good luck with this one. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong, but you'd need 5 computer systems set up all with AJA or BMD cards & arrays and go component in to them to get uncompressed.

Unless you're going to cut it live and then you'll only need 1 system, a switcher, monitors for each, etc.

This is a pretty big deal...

KW

Jeff Mack · December 29th, 2005, 09:55 AM

Sorry if I sound really stupid but I was thinking of something like 5 laptops or pcs with like a LaCie external drive system. Am I totally off base?
Jeff

Kevin Wild · December 29th, 2005, 10:15 AM

You might get away with this if doing HDV, but no way, no how if uncompressed. You may be mixing up words. HDV is WAY compressed. That doesn't mean it looks bad...it looks great in the right conditions with the right lighting. However, uncompressed multicam shoots are a whole different deal.

Stick with HDV and you can go straight into the computers. Just make sure you have a sync of some kind...slate, camera flash, hand clap...anything to sync it in post later. Also, make sure your levels and white balance match.

KW

Steven Gotz · December 29th, 2005, 11:12 AM

Jeff,

Yes, you will need one PC per Z1, and the PC must have component inputs - which means some expensive hardware, or perhaps a component to SDI converter so the card has SDI ports.

This is not cheap, but doable. Perhaps you should look into Cineform Prospect HD.

David Newman · December 29th, 2005, 11:24 AM

Yes, CineForm Prospect HD or a Wafian HR-1 can capture the pre-compression analog feed from the FX1/Z1 cameras. Read more here : http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHD.htm and here http://www.cineform.com/products/WafianHR1.htm

Kevin Wild · December 29th, 2005, 11:28 AM

And I bet you might get a discount if ordering 5 units...:-)

KW

David Newman · December 29th, 2005, 11:33 AM

Yes, I'm sure we would. This project http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com is a multicamera shoot using 2-3 HD100Us pre-compressed into two Wafian HR-1s and one Prospect HD workstation.

Albert Henson · December 29th, 2005, 03:14 PM

Shoot your footage with the z1 and decompress the footage with a miranda box when your editing.
www.miranda.com

The box can decompress your hdv footage. Amazing.

Steven Gotz · December 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM

Sorry, but by the time the video gets to tape, or to 1394, it is too late. The damage (compression to MPEG2) is done.

Not that it is so terrible to have HDV, but I must admit that the component output of a live event straight to the HDTV is better, and that if there was a less expensive way to record direct to PC, I would be doing that for all but my vacation videos.

Kevin Wild · December 29th, 2005, 04:37 PM

Exactly. Just uncompressing the HDV stream is not having uncompressed video.

KW

Jeff Mack · December 29th, 2005, 04:40 PM

Albert, Thanks for the info. Does the box decompress the material as if it were captured through the component out prior to tape or is it somewhere in between. I saw it sells for about 4G's. Also it looks like Avid is the only software that can handle the edit. I use Vegas.

Jeff

Jack Zhang · December 30th, 2005, 06:48 PM

I think the box is like a decoder for MPEG-2 MP@HL1440 to HD-SDI, It does not de-ring or read the motion estimation data to enhance the image.

Kevin Wild · December 30th, 2005, 06:52 PM

There is a new converter out similar to the Miranda from Convergent Designs that is considerably cheaper...as in $1800 or so.

Does the same thing...takes HDV in via Firewire and converts audio and video to uncompressed, while sending the timecode out via RS422. Very nice...I'm getting one soon, methinks.

KW

December 29th, 2005, 09:41 AM	#1
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	HDV Uncompressed Can anyone tell me how I could shoot a 4-5 camera (Z-1) project uncompressed? I know the cam will output uncompressed before it hits the tape but what setup can I get the uncompressed to the timeline? Jeff

December 29th, 2005, 09:55 AM	#3
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	Well then Sorry if I sound really stupid but I was thinking of something like 5 laptops or pcs with like a LaCie external drive system. Am I totally off base? Jeff

December 29th, 2005, 11:12 AM	#5
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Jeff, Yes, you will need one PC per Z1, and the PC must have component inputs - which means some expensive hardware, or perhaps a component to SDI converter so the card has SDI ports. This is not cheap, but doable. Perhaps you should look into Cineform Prospect HD. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 29th, 2005, 11:24 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, CineForm Prospect HD or a Wafian HR-1 can capture the pre-compression analog feed from the FX1/Z1 cameras. Read more here : http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHD.htm and here http://www.cineform.com/products/WafianHR1.htm __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 29th, 2005, 11:33 AM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Yes, I'm sure we would. This project http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com is a multicamera shoot using 2-3 HD100Us pre-compressed into two Wafian HR-1s and one Prospect HD workstation. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 29th, 2005, 09:46 AM	#2
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Wow, good luck with this one. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong, but you'd need 5 computer systems set up all with AJA or BMD cards & arrays and go component in to them to get uncompressed. Unless you're going to cut it live and then you'll only need 1 system, a switcher, monitors for each, etc. This is a pretty big deal... KW

December 29th, 2005, 10:15 AM	#4
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	You might get away with this if doing HDV, but no way, no how if uncompressed. You may be mixing up words. HDV is WAY compressed. That doesn't mean it looks bad...it looks great in the right conditions with the right lighting. However, uncompressed multicam shoots are a whole different deal. Stick with HDV and you can go straight into the computers. Just make sure you have a sync of some kind...slate, camera flash, hand clap...anything to sync it in post later. Also, make sure your levels and white balance match. KW

December 29th, 2005, 11:28 AM	#7
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	And I bet you might get a discount if ordering 5 units...:-) KW

December 29th, 2005, 03:14 PM	#9
Albert Henson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 65	Shoot your footage with the z1 and decompress the footage with a miranda box when your editing. www.miranda.com The box can decompress your hdv footage. Amazing.

December 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM	#10
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Sorry, but by the time the video gets to tape, or to 1394, it is too late. The damage (compression to MPEG2) is done. Not that it is so terrible to have HDV, but I must admit that the component output of a live event straight to the HDTV is better, and that if there was a less expensive way to record direct to PC, I would be doing that for all but my vacation videos. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 29th, 2005, 04:37 PM	#11
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Exactly. Just uncompressing the HDV stream is not having uncompressed video. KW

December 29th, 2005, 04:40 PM	#12
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	Have you used it? Albert, Thanks for the info. Does the box decompress the material as if it were captured through the component out prior to tape or is it somewhere in between. I saw it sells for about 4G's. Also it looks like Avid is the only software that can handle the edit. I use Vegas. Jeff

December 30th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#13
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	I think the box is like a decoder for MPEG-2 MP@HL1440 to HD-SDI, It does not de-ring or read the motion estimation data to enhance the image.

December 30th, 2005, 06:52 PM	#14
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	There is a new converter out similar to the Miranda from Convergent Designs that is considerably cheaper...as in $1800 or so. Does the same thing...takes HDV in via Firewire and converts audio and video to uncompressed, while sending the timecode out via RS422. Very nice...I'm getting one soon, methinks. KW