FX1000 and Premiere CS3 at DVinfo.net

Igor Garber · January 23rd, 2009, 10:53 AM

Hi All,

New here, as well as new to HD video. I have a VX2100 that I'm planning to trade in at B&H for a new FX1000. I'm just trying to make sure I got everything covered before I do. My questions is:

Has anyone captured and edited with Adobe Premiere CS3? Since I'm new to HD I'm not sure how I will be filming yet (24p, 30p, 60i), but I wanted to know if premiere will support the capture and editing of these formats. Also, can it still be successfully done via FireWire, like my VX2100 and how much more strain does HD capturing put on my PC? I don't just mean disk space.

Thanks in advance,

Igor.

Chris Barcellos · January 23rd, 2009, 11:08 AM

You are capturing HDV at virtually same data rate as DV from you VX2100. Capturing is not the issue. Editing HDV puts more demands on your system and you NLE. HDV also can deteriorate in successive re-rendered generations more than DV. Thats why some use an intermediate codec like Cineform to edit. It covers both issues.

Igor Garber · January 23rd, 2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

HDV also can deteriorate in successive re-rendered generations more than DV. Thats why some use an intermediate codec like Cineform to edit. It covers both issues.

Thank You for your answer.

Can you please explain this a bit more? Does "successive re-rendered generations" mean that every time I render the timeline, I stand to lose quality? If so, downloading a codec and configuring it in Premiere solves this?

Chris Barcellos · January 23rd, 2009, 03:43 PM

Igor:

Essentially, HDV has GOP. For every 15 frames you would have one complete frame, and the codec interprets changes with information the camera provides for the other 14 frames. In rerendering that process tends to erode the quaility each successive time. A very simplistic picture, but it gives you the idea. Goto this site to get idea about the reasons behind an intermediate editing codec like Cineform:

CineForm - Technical Notes

Greg Laves · January 23rd, 2009, 09:30 PM

I admit to not having the greatest knowledge in this area. But Chris, it is my understanding that PP uses its own codec. And after the imported footage is imported, conformed and indexed it is no longer in the long GOP format. PP has built complete frames from the data provided. And you are no longer dealing with the long GOP format at all. What I do know is that I have done a lot of re-rendering on projects in PP CS3 and I have not noticed any degradation so far.

Chris Barcellos · January 23rd, 2009, 10:16 PM

Most NLE use whatever codec you select for rendering. Cineform is an codec you can install to use in various NLEs.

In capture, at least in my last experience with Premiere, you capture the standard HDV stream to as an .m2t file. I am not aware if CS3 has its own intermediate codec that it converts to. Vegas uses a first generation Cineforme intermediate that you can convert to after capture, but still captures the HDV stream. I don't know if CS3 actually does pulldown removal.....The FX1000 has 24p capability, and Cineform's capture utility, HDLink, will automatically remove the pulldown, and allow you to edit in 24p.

The OP did not post his system confirguration, and Cineform is a remedy for a slower system, too. Files are larger, but because the system doesn't have to reconstruct frames, which is processor intensive, less resource are used. This was the basis of his question and my response. The Cineform also has extended benefits associated with reduced quaility loss during multiple rerenders, and in color correction work, etc, etc. The user must decide if those benefits make it worthwhiel...

That is not to say that you can't edit HDV. If you get satisfactory results, have at it...

Igor Garber · January 24th, 2009, 07:04 AM

Chris,

I have a Pentium 4 Dual Core 2.8Ghz, 3GB RAM, Nvidia 8600 512MB card, running on XP SP2. Disk space is an issue right now, but will be dealt with before I get the FX 1000.

Thank You all for your help. I have a week or two before I take the dive, it looks like I have a lot of reading to do.

Again, Thanks.

Igor.

January 23rd, 2009, 10:53 AM	#1
Igor Garber New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Morris Plains, NJ Posts: 21	FX1000 and Premiere CS3 Hi All, New here, as well as new to HD video. I have a VX2100 that I'm planning to trade in at B&H for a new FX1000. I'm just trying to make sure I got everything covered before I do. My questions is: Has anyone captured and edited with Adobe Premiere CS3? Since I'm new to HD I'm not sure how I will be filming yet (24p, 30p, 60i), but I wanted to know if premiere will support the capture and editing of these formats. Also, can it still be successfully done via FireWire, like my VX2100 and how much more strain does HD capturing put on my PC? I don't just mean disk space. Thanks in advance, Igor.

January 23rd, 2009, 11:08 AM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	You are capturing HDV at virtually same data rate as DV from you VX2100. Capturing is not the issue. Editing HDV puts more demands on your system and you NLE. HDV also can deteriorate in successive re-rendered generations more than DV. Thats why some use an intermediate codec like Cineform to edit. It covers both issues. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 23rd, 2009, 03:43 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Igor: Essentially, HDV has GOP. For every 15 frames you would have one complete frame, and the codec interprets changes with information the camera provides for the other 14 frames. In rerendering that process tends to erode the quaility each successive time. A very simplistic picture, but it gives you the idea. Goto this site to get idea about the reasons behind an intermediate editing codec like Cineform: CineForm - Technical Notes __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 23rd, 2009, 10:16 PM	#6
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Most NLE use whatever codec you select for rendering. Cineform is an codec you can install to use in various NLEs. In capture, at least in my last experience with Premiere, you capture the standard HDV stream to as an .m2t file. I am not aware if CS3 has its own intermediate codec that it converts to. Vegas uses a first generation Cineforme intermediate that you can convert to after capture, but still captures the HDV stream. I don't know if CS3 actually does pulldown removal.....The FX1000 has 24p capability, and Cineform's capture utility, HDLink, will automatically remove the pulldown, and allow you to edit in 24p. The OP did not post his system confirguration, and Cineform is a remedy for a slower system, too. Files are larger, but because the system doesn't have to reconstruct frames, which is processor intensive, less resource are used. This was the basis of his question and my response. The Cineform also has extended benefits associated with reduced quaility loss during multiple rerenders, and in color correction work, etc, etc. The user must decide if those benefits make it worthwhiel... That is not to say that you can't edit HDV. If you get satisfactory results, have at it... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 23rd, 2009, 09:30 PM	#5
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	I admit to not having the greatest knowledge in this area. But Chris, it is my understanding that PP uses its own codec. And after the imported footage is imported, conformed and indexed it is no longer in the long GOP format. PP has built complete frames from the data provided. And you are no longer dealing with the long GOP format at all. What I do know is that I have done a lot of re-rendering on projects in PP CS3 and I have not noticed any degradation so far.

January 24th, 2009, 07:04 AM	#7
Igor Garber New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Morris Plains, NJ Posts: 21	Chris, I have a Pentium 4 Dual Core 2.8Ghz, 3GB RAM, Nvidia 8600 512MB card, running on XP SP2. Disk space is an issue right now, but will be dealt with before I get the FX 1000. Thank You all for your help. I have a week or two before I take the dive, it looks like I have a lot of reading to do. Again, Thanks. Igor.