Low Light Comparison To The VX2100 ?

[Adam Gold]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure HDMI is only for display in most cases. There are some very expensive tapeless recorders for video mentioned in the other forums that support HDMI, but they'll be more expensive than the camera.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...specifications

At that rate you could just get a Z5, which will permanently burn in the date and time on the tape (as would the PD170 mentioned earlier).

[Jeff Harper]

Allen, The FX1000 is good in low light, but IMO it doesn't come as close to the VX2100 as I wish it did. I've had three of the old ones, and two of the FX1000s. The VX2100 almost was amazing in low light. The FX1000 is very good, but not amazing. I shoot in lots of old dark churches, which is what I base my personal opinion on.

On the other hand, the newer Sony is reputed to be better in low light than the FX1000, and I'm seriously considering getting one. The image of the FX1000 goes flat in low light before the VX2100 does, and that to me is still my biggest disappointment in much of the footage I shoot with the FX1000.

Mind you, for the money, there are few if any better options. The FX1000 produces some VERY nice footage after you learn how to operate it.

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks,

Hear me out.
I am a different kind of video pro in being a private investigator. Color quality is not a concern of the court or client. I am going from a Panasonic PV-GS500 with a terribly limited nigh mode (MagicPix) to the VX2100 and am happy but would like to have 20X glass which is why I am eye balling the FX1000. HD, SD is no matter.
Light gathering like in the video link below is what I am looking for and if the FX can match it pretty closley I'll swap to it or the likes of it.
If you know of a lower cost camcorder with 20x glass that will match it please tell me.

The first scene is of my front door from 40 feet which is pretty brightly lit but as you can see I start to reveal detail in the black door showing its panels @ a 6dB gain increase out of a possible 18dB. Nice! I put the GS500 to the same test and it could not show the details making the door look like a black hole.
The 2nd scene is 230 yards (measured) away, hand held at 12x zoom. Amazing. I pointed the GS500 at the same scene and it was black but for the street light showing as a single dot on a black screen.
The 3rd scene is 150 yards (measured) away at an even more dimly lit area.

I can work with this because these scenes are the extreme. In real situations I will be much closer than in the 2nd and 3rd scenes.

http://alcphoto.net/vids/vx2100demo.wmv

Talk To Me

[Adam Gold]

Those shots look pretty challenging and without being there to see the actual light it's a little hard to predict how well the FX would do. Jeff's experience notwithstanding, looking at the side by sides in the old thread (around post #80) it sure looks like the FX is every bit as good as the VX.

I really think your best bet is to try to rent a Z5 for a night if you're near a big city with a video rental outfit (they're more likely to have a Z5 than an FX1000 and they're the same camera).

But based on what you posted, I think a solution may be a PD170, and then you'll have all your problems solved (including the time/date issue) for probably less than the cost of an FX.

[Jeff Harper]

20x zoom of FX1000 is not as advantageous as it sounds since it starts out wider, it is nice, but the VX2100 loses less light at full zoom so the image is more usable. If your doing PI etc stuff I would absolutely consider the 2100/PD150 or 170. PD150 is a better deal, and I found both of mine to be slightly better in low light than the VX2100/PD170s. Don't ask me why, it was just so. Others have said the same.

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks Guys,

The VX2100 that took that footage is on the way back to Adorama. The internal batteries are dead and upon telling them they sent me a shipping label so they can see about replacing them. As a PI I cannot afford the time to have to reset the clock after a battery change during surveillance while the money shot escapes.
So I pondered upgrading but it seems it will make better since to stick with the VX2100.
Those shots were at full zoom and if the FX1000 falls off zoomed out perhaps I should calm down.

It's a day and night improvement over the GS500 that's for sure.

[Adam Gold]

It's not the 20x that matters, as I've pointed out before, it's that the 35mm eq at full zoom in 4:3 mode is about 720mm on the FX, vs about 518mm for the VX/PD. In 16:9 mode the equivalent is only about 590mm as the field of view is naturally wider, but that's still a 14% advantage.

[Jeff Harper]

Adam you are correct. However in their is a dramatic loss of at least one f-stop at full zoom, and in many circumstances I personally cannot use images from the cam at full zoom anyway. This same issue is present with the 2100 of course, but not nearly as pronounced. For his work the 2100 is close to perfect.

[Allen Campbell]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

It's not the 20x that matters, as I've pointed out before, it's that the 35mm eq at full zoom in 4:3 mode is about 720mm on the FX, vs about 518mm for the VX/PD. In 16:9 mode the equivalent is only about 590mm as the field of view is naturally wider, but that's still a 14% advantage.

You Guys Are A Great Help,
When I looked at that test footage I got pretty excited. If it had not needed to be sent back for batteries I may not have looked at another.

You guys are great. And holding on to the additional $1250.00 it would take to move out of the VX1200 is making me feel all warm and fuzzy as I fall back to earth.

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

For his work the 2100 is close to perfect.

Yes, assuming he can find one in good condition from a reputable vendor. B&H happens to have a couple at the moment. I'd highly recommend purchasing from them; I've bought used gear from them in the past and never had any issues.

But Adorama has a PD150 for less than a VX2100. Why don't you see if they can get you that plus a couple accessories (like new batts) for what you paid? Costs less and you'll have your time/date issue solved.

[Rob Morse]

I'll sell you my PD-170

[Allen Campbell]

Heh! Thanks,

I guess I'll stick with the VX2100 that Adorama is going to service or have serviced. The Pd-170 is not listed in the used section anymore either.

Rob, if Adorama keeps it I may get in touch.

[Adam Gold]

I'm not pushing Adorama, as I'm a B&H guy and while they say they're advertisers here I haven't seen any ads from them. But as they have your money, and the PD150 I mentioned is indeed still on the site you should consider checking it out.

DSRPD150 Sony Dsr-pd150 Mini Dvcam Camcorder

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks, I got the 50 and 70 mixed up.

I have used B&H, Beach Camera, Calumet and Adorama over the years as a DSLR shooter and all of them have always been great to work with. I cruise them all for the best price.

I got the VX2100 for almost the same price as that PD150. They will haggle a bit with the used stuff. They also gave me a 30 day trial period.

Being the VX2100 is newer than the PD-150 I guess I'll hang with it for now.

[Don Bloom]

I still have and use my 15- that's 10 years old. Granted it's been to Sony and had the transport and heads replaced one and has more hours than I care to mention and now I only use it for my 2 cam but it has been and is a solid performer over the years. I have never had a problem with it, never. The PDs are about as solid as you can get.
The only thing I would want to know about the one you're talking about is the hours. All of them. The fact is the heads on those cams are generally pretty well worn out by about 1100 to 1200 hours of tape run. Hours of operation aren't as important since the camera might have been on but not recording, I've done that many times for seminars either using it for IMag or going back to a deck. Drum run is important as well of course. Might be worth looking at.