DV vs. Down Convert at DVinfo.net

Paul Budline · April 2nd, 2008, 08:17 PM

Just got the HVR-z7u two days ago, and it's a stunning piece of technology. One initial question: If I plan on editing a project in plain old 720 x 480 DV, am I better off shooting it as DV to begin with, or shooting it at 1080i and then doing a Down Convert with Edge Crop. Either way I wind up with a 4 x 3 image, but is there any reason one would be superior?

Thanks very much.

Clemens Fischer · April 3rd, 2008, 06:04 AM

hello paul!

my experience showed me, that the best quality results are made in 1080. just shoot your project in HD, and than capture it to your system. convert it with your editing suite (if it's final cut, than the best way is to make a prores SD timeline, put your captured footage in it and downconvert it inbetween final cut to your desired format).

do not use mpeg streamclip. of course.. it's fantastic for fast workflow, but the best result with highest available quality is to do it in your editing program.
also the usage of the camera built in downconverter looses quality.

for a fast production, record your footage in 1080i on tape (for backup) and use the comact flash recording unit to record in DVCAM mode.

if you use DV mode, you save a little bit of storage on your system, but it will be less quality.

i tested all that stuff very carefully with a MacPro, AJA Kona and a class 1 broadcast monitor, connected with SDI.

regards,
clemens

Darko Debelic · April 3rd, 2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clemens Fischer

hello paul!

my experience showed me, that the best quality results are made in 1080. just shoot your project in HD, and than capture it to your system. convert it with your editing suite (if it's final cut, than the best way is to make a prores SD timeline, put your captured footage in it and downconvert it inbetween final cut to your desired format).

do not use mpeg streamclip. of course.. it's fantastic for fast workflow, but the best result with highest available quality is to do it in your editing program.
also the usage of the camera built in downconverter looses quality.

for a fast production, record your footage in 1080i on tape (for backup) and use the comact flash recording unit to record in DVCAM mode.

if you use DV mode, you save a little bit of storage on your system, but it will be less quality.

i tested all that stuff very carefully with a MacPro, AJA Kona and a class 1 broadcast monitor, connected with SDI.

regards,
clemens

Hello Clemens,

Do you capture your HDV material using the Pro Res codec in Final Cut as well?

And how do you go about recording your material once converted to a DV deck recorder from you SD Pro Res timeline?

Thanks a lot.

Darko

Clemens Fischer · April 3rd, 2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko Debelic

Hello Clemens,

Do you capture your HDV material using the Pro Res codec in Final Cut as well?

And how do you go about recording your material once converted to a DV deck recorder from you SD Pro Res timeline?

Thanks a lot.

Darko

hello darko!

native HDV capturing using ProRes codec in FinalCut is just possible with special hardware.

i capture the HDV footage using the native HDV codec in final cut (right now i do not capture from tape anymore.. tape is just backup. i capture from compact flash, 'cause it's faster. using the new compact flash recording unit supplied with the HVR-Z7 is a great thing. for transferring the file to my mac i use the sandisk firewire compact flash reader, which is a little bit faster than transfering from the recording unit. see my post: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...04#post850004).

made a new setting in final cut, which is ProRes and allows HDV capturing. did some changes for better picture quality:

http://www.bilder-space.de/show.php?...t5I0d74rXW.png

http://www.bilder-space.de/show.php?...vV6puhtfta.png

hope my post helps you a little bit... and sorry for my english.

regards,
clemens

John Markert · April 9th, 2008, 09:55 PM

Clemens,

Most of the time I would shoot HDV then capture and edit in HDV, then make a SD DVD. But the conform times are just awful on Macs.

I have not captured in ProRes because I don't have a wintel machine, just a G4. Is the conforming time much shorter with ProREs? How long would a 2 hour HDV timeline take to make an mpeg file for a DVD? Which Mac are you using?

Clemens Fischer · April 10th, 2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Markert

Clemens,

Most of the time I would shoot HDV then capture and edit in HDV, then make a SD DVD. But the conform times are just awful on Macs.

I have not captured in ProRes because I don't have a wintel machine, just a G4. Is the conforming time much shorter with ProREs? How long would a 2 hour HDV timeline take to make an mpeg file for a DVD? Which Mac are you using?

hello john.

i think you have to decide, if you need the finished production in HD or SD. if you need it just in SD, i would recommend you to convert all your captured HDV footage overnight to ProRes SD and do all the cutting in that format.

so you save time, when you have finished your production.. just convert the final cut to mpeg.

if you think, that you need it also in HD, finish your production in HDV, and convert it directly to mpeg.

both solutions - HDV or SD ProRes - take about the same time to convert to mpeg for DVD.

but i have to tell you that there is a very big speed difference in encoding to mpeg depending on your mac. and i don't think, that you can use ProRes on your G4 'cause you need to have the latest version of final cut and i don't think that it will work on a G4.

i had a powermac G5 since last year and changed to a macpro quadcore the last 4 month. the speed of encoding and converting inbetween formats is now 2 times faster... e.g. converting one hour HDV to ProRes in highest quality (as i described) takes now about 2.5 hours. before changing system it took me about 5 hours.

so i would recommend you to work on the latest system available to speed up your production. and i could tell you that the ProRes codec is absolutely fantastic!

hope my answer helps you a little bit.

regards,
clemens

Arlen Sahakian · April 11th, 2008, 09:43 AM

Hi Clemens
i just wanted to ask you if ur working with Z7 why r u using pro res 422 while camera shoots only 420 do u think it will make any difference

well im just asking cause i dont have any experience in HD yet but its from what i've read i was just wandering

April 2nd, 2008, 08:17 PM	#1
Paul Budline Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Princeton NJ Posts: 35	DV vs. Down Convert Just got the HVR-z7u two days ago, and it's a stunning piece of technology. One initial question: If I plan on editing a project in plain old 720 x 480 DV, am I better off shooting it as DV to begin with, or shooting it at 1080i and then doing a Down Convert with Edge Crop. Either way I wind up with a 4 x 3 image, but is there any reason one would be superior? Thanks very much.

April 11th, 2008, 09:43 AM	#7
Arlen Sahakian Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lebanon Posts: 30	Hi Clemens i just wanted to ask you if ur working with Z7 why r u using pro res 422 while camera shoots only 420 do u think it will make any difference well im just asking cause i dont have any experience in HD yet but its from what i've read i was just wandering __________________ WWW.DMEDIUS.COM

April 3rd, 2008, 06:04 AM	#2
Clemens Fischer New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Vienna Posts: 24	hello paul! my experience showed me, that the best quality results are made in 1080. just shoot your project in HD, and than capture it to your system. convert it with your editing suite (if it's final cut, than the best way is to make a prores SD timeline, put your captured footage in it and downconvert it inbetween final cut to your desired format). do not use mpeg streamclip. of course.. it's fantastic for fast workflow, but the best result with highest available quality is to do it in your editing program. also the usage of the camera built in downconverter looses quality. for a fast production, record your footage in 1080i on tape (for backup) and use the comact flash recording unit to record in DVCAM mode. if you use DV mode, you save a little bit of storage on your system, but it will be less quality. i tested all that stuff very carefully with a MacPro, AJA Kona and a class 1 broadcast monitor, connected with SDI. regards, clemens

April 9th, 2008, 09:55 PM	#5
John Markert Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Belle Mead NJ Posts: 50	Clemens, Most of the time I would shoot HDV then capture and edit in HDV, then make a SD DVD. But the conform times are just awful on Macs. I have not captured in ProRes because I don't have a wintel machine, just a G4. Is the conforming time much shorter with ProREs? How long would a 2 hour HDV timeline take to make an mpeg file for a DVD? Which Mac are you using?