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Sony Z7 auto focus problem
The auto focus for this camera is really slow and NOT good compare to Sony Z1 or Sony PD170
Is this problem fixed or is Sony going to fix this problem? If so, when? |
It's a pro camera, pro lens. Much different to auto models.
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Antony, I think what John was trying to say was that the autofocus handles differently on every camera and that the best way to get good focus is to go manual.
I don't have a z7 but if it has the option you could put it in manual and hit the "one push focus" button, in that way the focus will not start hunting in darker area's. I do rely on the autofocus quite a lot in run and gun situations and there is nothing wrong with that, I only use it though in good light conditions and when the lens is wide. Once I zoom in or when it gets too dark I go manual and use the one push focus button to focus right and then leave it at that. I found that working with HD the focussing can be quite tricky but the button for instant focussing has been a great help for me. So I think you will have to find a way to deal with the slower autofocus response because every camera deals with it in another way. And John, the reason why I like this forum so much is that you always get an answer and everybody treats you with respect, even with "stupid" questions. About 2 years ago I asked a simple audio related question about the dvx100 on the dvxuser forum and I got the same "we're sick and tired of these questions" replies as you did. It's this kind of attitude that will scare people away from a forum. Think that everybody is learning here and you have to realize that before you answer. |
I think John Knight's answer is unhelpful to say the least. There's no such thing as a professional camera, only professional people. A professional's just as likely to use an A1E as a Z1 as an EX1 - it depends on what's needed on the shoot.
Anthony - I think you need to get your Z7 checked out if it's a big concern. A / B testing it alongside another Z7 would be an excellent way to see if your camera does indeed need looking at. As a bottom line, the auto-focus should be faster than manual by at least 50% - it knows which way to turn the ring and it won't need to rock 'n' roll when it gets there. Even with peaking we rock 'n' roll - it's only human nature. Sony aren't in the habit of stepping backwards, and technological progress means that every generation betters the one before. On this assumption I'd say the Z7 should be doing everything at least equal to the Z1 and in some cases better, and I'd include their auto-focus speed and accuracy in this. Check it out though. Sony camcorders are taking a few hits these days as they try to overdo the market penetration. tom. |
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Wacharapong |
Focus Ring Z7
Hi there,
I am a XDCAM HD user , for handheld work I rented a Z7 for some wedding dancing etc. I also used a Z1 sometimes, and I am considering a cam like Z1/Z7 for the future. I experienced some odds I´d like to know more about: a) Is there a fast way to manually switch between Daylight and Tungsten? b) I found the manually focus (mechanical focus) ring to be not really smooth. from Pro-Lenses I am used to adjust focus minimally (following a subject in Tele for instance) with the thumb or small finger. On the Z7 you need some certain strength to move the ring, more than on a Z1. This often leds to some vibrations or the fact that I had to handle the camera different. Sometimes focus simply jumped to far. What are your experiences? c) From pro lenses I am used to some depth of field algebraics. With Z7 they seem to differ. Usually I zoom in, focus and zoom out. Usually I get the object focussed + a certain area behind. With Z7 I often got the impression, that in WIDE the subject doesnt stay sharp & focussed. Whats your experience? d) In shooting situations I more as once switched from mechanical to servo focus mode incidentally. I am wondering if there would be a way to avoid that (I considered a strap around the lens to prevent the wrong mode) In the end I like the Z7 much, though the display is a bit small. Ergonomically I like the Z1 too, its not as heavy, but has no manual (mechanical) focus. ULI |
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The Z1 does have manual focus but it's a servo action. The Z7 is better in that you can have zebras and peaking both on at the same time, with the Z1 you have to choose between them. I choose zebras. tom. |
Hi Uli,
a I have a 270 which has the same lens as the Z7 I am used to a DSR 570 with "normal " set up of buttons. On that you have a preset for w/b and it changes depending on which colour filter is in, so you have tungsten and daylight available all the time. I have only found a way of storing one preset on my 270( unless anyone knows another way) I store tungsten on the grounds that daylight varies a lot more. Having said that , after years of religiously doing white balances manually on virtually every shot I now leave it on AUTO white unless I can see that the mixed colour light will cause problems with face colour. I use fixed tungsten on things like bands where the light can change colour every second. It works well so far! I find the assign buttons a bit of a pain because they are so easy to switch by accident and I cam never remember what function I put on them. They need to have a more positive locking action like other buttons on the body. b I agree the focus ring is not very precise compared with a more pro lens. I think it is made worse by the fact that the ring is smaller so you can get large focus changes from small input. Also I have been used to a very sharp tubed eyepiece on the 570 which allowed you to accurately follow focus in close up of someone walking towards you. The eyepiece on the 270 is colour/lcd and basically not as good as it should be! d It is very easy to push the focus ring forward and go into auto focus by accident. As a confidence booster I just keep trying to find the mechanical end stops when in manual...if the ring keeps turning I know its in auto. c Not sure unless your lens isnt holding focus through its range( back focus problem?) |
thankyou all for the reply including John Knight.
As an event videographer, we don't have the luxury of take 2 , take 3 , take 4 ...... etc. There is no such thing as take 2 infact. I want to buy Z7 camera but when tested on the demo camera, the auto focus is worst (quite bad) than z1 or pd170 or Fx1. Just want to know why is that so and is Sony going to fix it or not. EX1 is an exellent camera but 1 card cost over $1000 dollars is out of the question at this stage. Hoping for a reply from Sony people about Z7 auto focus problem. |
Hi Anthony, I upgrade from the FX1 to EX1 n I have to inform u that the auto focus on the EX1 sucks big time too. I shoot events like u n end up going manual all the way! Other than that, the EX1 is a superb cam for the price pt.
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However Z7 is not suitable for filming weddings because of the auto focus problem. |
'However Z7 is not suitable for filming weddings because of the auto focus problem.'
That's quite a sweeping statement to make Anthony and I'm pretty sure Sony aimed this camera right at the run 'n' gun market - and this hits weddings fair and square. The Z1 is superb for weddings (I know, I shoot lots of them) so I'd be mighty surprised to find the Z7 was a no-go. tom. |
since I put my vx2000 in manual (focus servo) mode on weddings too, I think some practising will help using the z7 too. I used it on some wedding videos and so far only complain about the focus ring, which doesnt turn as easy as a pro lens does.
ULi |
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Hedley - I find the Z1's top screen just fine out in the mid-day sun, though I admit to reading the zebras in these conditions. Surely the Z7's screen must be as good?
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All i'm saying is why the auto focus of z7 so weak? compare to its older cousins like z1, fx1, pd170, pd150, vx2100. |
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Bruce |
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What i want to find out is, is Sony going the update the Camera to say Z7.1 or something ? The use of CF card for recording is very appealing. off Topic: Express Card and SxS card are very similar. Why the huge price difference? |
Anthony,
Firstly, sorry for my previous impetuous outburst. It was a result of having read so much misinformation from inexperienced users in the past, then having friends and comrades in the industry continually asking if "they have FIXED the Sony Z7 yet"... based on these ill-informed forum posts. There is NOTHING wrong with the Sony Z7 auto-focus. There is NOTHING wrong with the Sony 0db, 3db, -3db gain. There is NOTHING wrong with the Sony back focus. There is NOTHING wrong with the Sony Z7. Period. How can I say this? (a) I have been using the Sony Z7 for 3 months, have produced 15 weddings, 3 corporate interviews and 1 mini-documentary. (b) 2 highly experienced cameramen - Douglas Spotted Eagle (VASST) and Doug Jensen (VORTEX) - have produced entire training workshops on these cameras. If they had issues that you had - do you think they might mention it and deem the camera a dog? The only people that seem to have problems with this camera, are those who "hire" it briefly, spray it around in AUTO mode, don't invest in the available training materials and believe everything they read in forums. Given the FACT that there is nothing wrong with the Z7 based on (a) and (b) above - the issue must be either (1) faulty camera, or (2) faulty operator. Can I ask you... (1) Have you ever used a true removable lens camera to produce videos? (not just testing) (2) Did you perform flange adjustments to the lens as per instructions in manual? (3) Did you experiment with both the hybrid focus modes as per Vortex training? (4) Did you have macro focus enabled or disabled? Are you aware of the difference? (5) Did you have centre mark enabled to assist with follow focus function? People tend to believe everything they read in forums. I nearly didn't buy this camera based on previous posts by various people - including ones who reported the camera wrecking footage, jumping focus, going out of sync. I showed those comments to my local Sony agent. He laughed, told me to stop reading ill-informed loony rant, then explained what they were doing wrong - and how to operate the camera properly. That's why I get annoyed - because people read the statements below, and believe them! Quote:
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You've developed bad habits from years of "brain off" shooting with the (most excellent) VX and PD range of cameras. When you pickup the Z7 - it's very daunting. Initially it will annoy you because it won't produce amazing results when used like a point and shoot PD170. You have to forget everything you learnt from PD shooting, you have to buy training material, you have to test test test. In a way, it's like starting from scratch. That freaks a lot of people out because it's SO much easier to just bad mouth the camera and fall back on the PD170's because that is their "comfort zone" camera.... I probably would have done the same.... except I jumped head first into the Z7 and sold my PD170's and VX2000's to afford it... so I had no choice. Yes, there are still times I long for my "babies" back. But I picked up a friends PD170 the other day and it felt like a plastic dinky toy. He tried my Z7 and was nearly drooling. However, he is a lazy lazy shooter - full AUTO weddings etc. I told him to stick with what he knows - the Z7 would not suit him. Hope this helps. I would recommend sticking with the PD170's if your client base are happy with 4:3 SD DVD's (most brides are) However, if you want to experience a steep learning curve, be prepared for initial frustration and setbacks, but ultimately become a better videographer.... then buy the Sony Z7. <end rant> :) |
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Doug Jensen says it clearly and several times in his Vortex training video: "slide that 'manual-auto' switch to 'manual' and never touch it again. This is not a consumer camera, and to get the most out of it, it HAS to be used in manual mode". I couldn't agree more. When used in manual mode, this camera delivers amazing, very professional looking picture quality
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Good post John Knight and I'll side with you on all those points except for one thing - that 'most brides' are happy with 4:3 DVDs. It may be so in ChCh NZ, but it sure ain't so in England.
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Really? Up until about 4 months ago, I'd never been asked for HD, let alone widescreen? Anthony and I are at the bottom of the world though remember... woman still have to ride on top of bus, and homosexuals still have to wear blue hats. Our Sony Z7's don't even have batteries - I've got the wife peddling a bicycle outside the church to power the external generator attached to it!!! :)
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John, I totally agree with you! I own 3 Z7U's, no problems and I LOVE MY CAMERAS! Best purchase I ever made!
The picture and colors are amazing. I've just begun dabbling with the Picture Profiles! I will post when I have examples! HAPPY SHOOTING everyone with the 7's! |
Just comparing the auto focus between z7 , ex1 and others thats all.
Well i guess, to use z7, "don't us auto focus" . (smile). anyway, about recording on CF cards using z7, 1/ how many formats can it record on ? avi ? ... etc 2/ any video clip issues on CF cards for all recording formats? |
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2. No issues - indicators appear in viewfinder telling you when both tape and/or CF card is capturing. On slower (133x) cards, I initially had an issue with sync of card recording, but it was my shooting style of hitting the start/stop button rapidly (bridal prep, formal photos etc) that needed adjusting to allow buffer to work correctly. |
"SD - either AVI or RAW DV are options."
um, do you mean CF - either AVI or RAW DV only? 1/ what is the picture quality difference between avi and raw dv? 2/ so CF card record in Standard Definition only? 3/ what is standard definition quality like on CF card? i'm asking this because blu ray player & blu ray disc will not be popular for the general public until the price is similar to the normal dvd players and the dvd discs. That would be years away i think. |
John, thank you for your posts... IMHO the Z7 is the best sub-10.000$ camera on the market, except for the EX1 (image-wise).
But it is indeed a professional tool, maybe not so well suited for run-n-gun style filming, although that can be done too of course. (We do it all the time). I come from using digi-beta and xd-cam(hd), It is a big thing to have the same tools in a handheld camera. I have been following this forum since its first days, and I was sometimes very frustrated reading all the mis-informed, exagerrated or downright incorrect posts. It is time to put things in perspective. The image quality, conrol and workflow that this product offers is unrivaled at its price. Also, count the posters (not the posts!) about 'problems'. There must be thousands of Z7's in use every day. How many users voice their problems here? 10? 20? not more I guess. It is easy to loose a sense of 'size' of the problems discussed here, especially as some people parrot what they hear so easily, often without even owning/using the camera. All perspective buyers: buy the vortex dvd first (when planning to spend 6k, it's worth investing 100 bucks in a very well informed, unpartial, detailed description of the camera). If you don't buy the Z7 ebay it for 50. Then rent the Z7 for a weekend. Spend some quality-time with it. Then decide. Thén post informed questions about any problems you might encounter. |
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(2) No. HDV (m2t files) or SD (avi files) (3) Same as tape. SD is a digital format so quality is exactly the same whether you capture SD on a $2 mini-dv tape, a $20 dv-cam tape, directly hooked into a laptop via firewire, or captured onto CF-card. It's digital so quality is the same no matter what recording medium. Quote:
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1 more question John Knight :)
when recording on CF card avi file, is it stored as a single avi file until card is full or many avi files until card full? |
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is file numbering system the same as digital still camera? the file numbers keep going up and up to thousands and thousands? Example: 0896500 avi file I think i like what i hear John :) you are a Sony seller now, should get some commission from them. |
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It's on Page 18 of the MRU Manual. (Which you are now going to read) http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...l-hvr-mrc1.pdf Or covered in depth in Doug's training DVD (Which you are now going to order) Vortex Media's - Mastering the Z7 Training DVD Quote:
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Just a quick question John to a man who knows his apertures from his audio levels. What finally decided you on the Z7 as against the EX1? Here in England the prices are so close it's a difficult decision to make, and I'd like to hear your reasoning.
I holiday'd (can you say that?) in ChCh 19 months ago. Wish I'd knocked on your door. tom. |
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EX1 is a beautiful beautiful machine, but not a good business choice for me. (1) Major reason is that EX1 shoots exclusively HD. My clients view exclusively SD. (2) My editing system would need a major upgrade to be able to handle HD 1920x1080i editing (3) I would have to invest in some kind of XDCAM archive system. More $$$ (4) I would have to spend at least another NZ$6000 on SxS cards (which would be worth NZ$60 in a couple of years!!) (5) I often shoot DV-CAM in the field and handover tapes to police/media. Would you hand over an SxS card? (6) Think the Z7 is a little cumbersome to hand hold? Wait until you try the Ex1! Easy choice. |
6 bullet points that shoot it dead, thank you.
I've used an EX1 for a wedding - loved it, loved the swivelling handle, the really sharp screen and the low light capabilities. But most of all I loved the results up there on my 46" 1080 LCD. Know what? I thought I was squeezing the last drops of quality out of my Z1 once it was burnt to DVD-R and up-scaled into this big TV. But the EX1's footage just sneered at the struggling Z1 - I was eyebrows-raised surprised by the image quality difference. The EX1 does with ease what the Z1 struggles to attempt - that's the best way I can put it. And I just have the feeling that however good the Z7 is it's a sideways step from the Z1, when in reality most of us should be leap-frogging. But your bullet points make sound business sense. tom. |
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Not quite sure what I'm seeing here. Both screens are in direct sunlight, at their default brightness settings? What's the diagonal line across the Z7's?
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beneath the shadow (?) over z7´s display : The z1 display looks much brighter than z7??
ULI |
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