Noise issue with my Z7E? and it's got me stuck.

[Gary Nattrass]

Look forward to hearing your test results, regardless of what is showing on the FCP screens the footage should go out at good quality as it will be rendered back to HDV at your native rates.

It might be worth loading in at pro res LT or 422 to see if that makes a difference.

[James Cairns]

Hi again, test results.

Footage shot on Z7 at 1080i50 on Kingston Compact Flash at 133x
Import to FCP with Log and Transfer.
FCP settings HDV 1080i 25fps

A wee bit of Color Correction, was the only thing added to footage.

Sent from FCP to Compressor - Transfer Complete
Export with Quicktime using Current Settings - Transfer Complete(in Compressor it does not complete)
Export with Quicktime using Conversion method - Transfer complete(in compressor it does not complete)

with the two Quicktime methods, even though I don't get the message Successful in Compressor. I still end up with my .M2v and AC3 files and all content is there.

When I bring any of the above files into DVD Studio Pro or Compressors Preview I see the interlacing issue on my MacBook Screen. and in final DVD?

I am getting annoyed, I know it will be a silly setting to fix this BUT I am in the dark......

Any Help is most appreciated can someone even tell me if my settings are wrong as I never saw these problems with FCP 5.

James

[Vito DeFilippo]

Your problem might be because you are putting interlaced footage on a progressive timeline (shot in 50i, FCP at 25p as you say). Why don't you use an easy setup that matches the footage?

Check to see if FCP has automatically added a 'reverse fields' filter on your clips. If yes, you'll have to go into each clip and remove the filter.

[James Cairns]

I never said 25p I am sure I am working in an interlaced workflow and the settings below are due to an Easy Setup.


Camera Settings

Recording Format - HDV 1080i
HDV Progressive/Record Type - Interlace/Scan Type 50


Final Cut Settings

Summary
Sequence Preset - HDV - 1080i50
Capture Preset - HDV
Device Control Preset - HDV 1080i50 Firewire Basic
Video Playback - Digital Cinema Desktop Preview - Main
Audio Playback - Default

Sequence Presets
Frame Size - 1440x1080 Pixels
Editing Timebase - 25 fps
Field Dominance - Upper Odd
Pixel Aspect Ratio - HD (1440x1080)
Anamorphic 16:9 - off
Video Processing - - YUV allowed (8 bit)
White Point - White

Compressor - HDV 1080i50
Millions of Colors (24 bit)
No Data Rate Limit
No Key frames Set
Quality - 100

Audio Settings
16-bit 48.000 Khz Stereo

The Setting I have always had problems since moving to FCP 7 is, Preview Unsupported for this Format, in Log and Transfer. I was under the impression if I have set something wrong in FCP, FCP will set the sequence to my imported footage?


James

[Vito DeFilippo]

Originally Posted by James Cairns

I never said 25p

Originally Posted by James Cairns

FCP settings HDV 1080i 25fps

I misunderstood your 25fps reference.

[James Cairns]

No problems Vito, I am sorry for not typing it clearer. The settings I posted I assume are normal for my work flow?

James

[Vito DeFilippo]

It was my misunderstanding. No need to apologise.

Your settings seem right to me, but I'll let someone better in Final Cut chime in. I can't figure out where you're going wrong.

[James Cairns]

Thanks for the feedback Vito, also for your help.
as I said before any help is most appreciated.

James

[Gary Nattrass]

I'm a bit confused now, you have said originally that it is noise that is the problem!

Noise on digital is very small black dots that jump around the screen like tiny little flies and can look like old film grain!

What this sounds like is interlacing problems as you are shooting interlaced, this may have been displayed OK on FCP 5 as it was quite primative in its HDV handling.

Now that you are on FCP 7 your computer may be rendering more in real time and what you can now see is the interlacing that is there when displaying 50i material on LCD screens.

Try shooting 1080i 25p and see if that cures the problems, I also used to shoot HDV 1080i 50i and then do a master file to pro res at 1920x1080i 25p and that cured a lot of the problems. Not the best way to do it in software but the the Z7 doesn't do native 25p very well due to the HDV codec and compromises on hardware in the camera.

That is why I now use panasonic P2 cameras that shoot in full 1920x1080i 25np to broadcast specs.

Hope this helps James.

[James Cairns]

Hi Gary,

the issues that I have seen since moving from FCP 5-7

1) Noise in footage (from sunny days) only when delivered to DVD.

2) Interlacing issue (never saw this till FCP 7 and I was told before it may have always been there) I knew of different screens and changing Field Dominace, but does not always work and I am starting to sell the end results and can't second guess the customers TV?

3) Compressor won't say Successful but still creates the AC3 File and .M2v. If I send from FCP to Compressor, everything goes according to plan.

I apologise for confusing my original question and I only posted the other issues Just in case from my settings it caused the other issues, since November the 19 2009 I have been going round in circles.

I also thought of the 1080i 25p, but when I tried this in FCP 5 I knew I had to get better first (different film making style to work with) I was going to try this work flow but I was under the impression if it worked before why has it changed???

In being new to macs 26/01/09 and FCP once I found something that worked, I stuck with it in not knowing any other way and this forum has helped in so many ways.

That is why I have now come and asked for help, or even for someone to say your doing that wrong.I am totally under the impression if my eye can see an issue then, I don't want to pass this on to the customer.

James

[Gary Nattrass]

You do right to make sure your delivery is right James and I understand your frustration as this wasnt a problem with FCP 5 and now you are on ver 7 all is there to see.

I went through similar problems when I was new to all this mac and HD stuff too so don't get disheartened we will try and find you a solution the best we can.

I know what you mean about shooting 25p with the Z7 it just doesn't seem to look or feel right and I always shot 1080i 50i and then did a progressive conversion in quick time as it sorted a lot of the problems and kept the quality up without those dreaded jagged lines.

As I remember my workflow was as follows:

1: Shoot 1440x1080i 50i in the Z7
2: Transfer to FCP in log and transfer (or re-wrap in clipwrap)
3: Edit in HDV at the above rates.
4: Master to pro res 422 1920x1080i 25p via quicktime conversion
5: Burn to DVD in I-DVD or make an apple TV 1280x720p 1.5mbs file for you tube etc from the pro res master file.

Try this workflow and see if it does the same? I found that making the pro res master was the key as it made a square pixel master at 1920x1080i 25p rather than an HDV long gop 1440x1080 image.

[James Cairns]

Cheers for that Gary,

I honestly thought I was doing something wrong but after your last post....I am NOT alone. Also the jagged lines I knew this was not my dodgy eye.

In like you say it is frustrating and being new to FCP and HD. You are quick to blame the lack of experience. I currently do steps 1-3 in your checklist and with my current project I will try steps 4-5.

If I get stuck I will post again, only question I have you don't mention Compressor. Do I still have to worry that Compressor does not like my quicktimes?

I DVD to burn I will look into this, I have never used I DVD only Toast and can I ask what would you advise with my last question on Burning to Dual Layer. My Macbook has had problems since day one DOES not like Dual Layers even the expensive Verbatim ones £27 for 25.

Thanks again for all this and when I try steps 4&5 I will let you know. Thanks for taking the time. I am glad I posted my silly questions now.

James

[Gary Nattrass]

No probs James having spoke to you a couple of years ago I appreciate that this is all very new to you but you are getting there and it is all a learning curve.

Bear in mind that after 30 years in broadcast I am still hitting barriers myself as software develops but I am a great advocate of keeping things simple.

Whilst compressor is a very powerful programme and i have found new ways to do blu ray an other bespoke things I personally like to keep things simple as I was brought up in a broadcast environment where you need to deliver fast and perfect every time with no mistakes as they are on-air before you know it.

SO I use FCP and have defined my workflows from shooting through to delivery and they are all tried and tested so its quicktime and i-DVD for me to produce on-line and DVD content using masters created by exporting quick time from FCP.

I used to convert from HDV to pro res in the ways described but now with P2 it is much easier as I shoot in 1920x108i 25np and end up with a pro res HQ master in the same format. The DVD and QT delivery files for on-line remain the same as for HDV.

It all works and I am very happy now but I did have lots of problems with the HDV codec to on-line and as said that is why I am now on P2 as I have to be across all media formats from full HD broadcast to i-phone from the same master file.

[James Cairns]

Hi Gary, I would like to say a Massive Thanks to you. As with everything you mentioned I was actually expecting it is exactly like you say you get a feel for your workflow and I noticed issues similar to yourself when moving to FCP 7.

I could not afford a change just now so the work a round’s you provided, only backed up what I knew and like you mentioned being new to this and going round in circles. I have only being doing this a couple of years but maybe when I am 30 years in (that's if I still here) I will look back at all this and say my training was hard, but I got there?

Also I worked at the BBC recently and even though they use Avid it is still as you said keep it simple and find what works for you, this backs up that since you moved to P2 and found the workflow that works there.....

My only problem now I see is how to fix my issues with compressor.

Thanks again Gary for all your help, if only I could every repay the favour.

James