Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Hi Serggio

Thanks I have it downloaded and see your problem .. the hard edges of the car are shimmering ...

I'll shoot some footage of my car for you (it's raining at the moment though!) It's worse at wide angle too.

Comments from anyone else in the meantime??

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

That is pretty bad. I haven't noticed that with my EA50. Could it be a defective sensor or something?

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Hi Jody

I would suspect it's on the PP3 setting and shot in bright sunlight and you can see how over-exposed the footage is too. PP3 has a knee setting that is designed to lift detail from shadows in low light so in bright sunshine it doesn't work so well as it's lifting highlighted hard edges on the car body which you don't want.

Serggio?? Can you tell us what profile you used..it looks like PP3 and was the camera on full auto??

I would suspect that the shutter was way up and the aperture was probably F16 at least so it would have more than likely over exposed badly. If you can remember what the shutter and iris indicated that would also be useful. Try the same sort of shot at PP4 profile and see if it does the same thing??

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

no profile f 7.1 iso 500 in new test with pp3 pp4 is the some problem and f 16 as much
ask all of you send me something similar to see and compare with my problem please!!!

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

What was the shutter speed? It is possible that a high shutter speed could cause those issues.

I'll send you something similar tomorrow, it's currently night here.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

thanks jody the shutter speed is 150 but and 50 shutter speed with f 16 have the problem

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

It's night time here as well and it's pouring with rain!

The clip looked very over-exposed to me Serggio ..was that manual exposure cos with auto the image should never be so washed out, with no profile it really crushes the black level down to zero or even lower so if anything with no profile at least the blacks should have been very solid and I see none of that.

I checked out the clip in Sony Vegas Videoscopes and the whites are blown out over 120% ...if you drop the gamma curve down 50% to try and correct the levels the shimmering has virtually gone but the overall image is still over-exposed.

Try a clip again with correct exposure or run the camera in full auto ... In progressive mode you do need to keep the shutter a LOT lower either with ND filters or smaller iris otherwise the highlights will still blow out in such bright light!

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Chris i make 1 more test with full camera auto have the some broblem,you are melbourne???have good friend photographer there,if you want to get to know,thornbury victoria australia

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Hi Serggio

Nope, I'm in Perth 4000km to the West!!

I looked at some of my wedding footage when the shiny limos arrive and there is a tiny sparkle here and there. In 50P especially you do need to keep your shutter speed low and if the camera iris cannot close any more you need to put on an ND filter to reduce the light and shutter speed. At weddings I sometimes just don't have time to do that so I put up with the odd bit of aliasing ... When you shoot in auto make a note of the aperture and shutter speed in the sun, then move the car into the shade and test again and you will see the difference!!

At weddings I have no choice where the car stops so I usually shoot that with a manual lens so I can stop right down so my shutter is at a decent speed ...At 50P try to keep it at 100 or lower ..in 50i you can usually get away up to 1/400th but in super bright sun in auto you still might get a few sparkles.

If you want to shoot and expose manually then use zebras at 90% and make sure ONLY stuff like skies have the stripes on them ...if the car is full of stripes then you need to close down the iris!!

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

persist in believing that my camera has a problem in the lens or the sensor,by the end of next week we will ship in Sony

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

That's aliasing but I have to say I have not seen it this bad before, I"d take the camera in for service.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I got my camera is just 2 months,has written 3 to 4 hours maximum,the recording was a close-up indoors and did not show the problem,my dealer saw the problem and send it in for repair in Sony at the end of next week

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

This is the closest I could get to replicating Serggio's shot:

PP4, 1/50, f16, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgc7lv50ob...00002.MTS?dl=0
ND filter, PP4, 1/50, f5.6, 0dB: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sndyr69fb...00003.MTS?dl=0

There are no signs of moire or aliasing that I can see, although there isn't anything in the shot that would really test that (except maybe the trees?).

I've never noticed before, but the ND filter seems to create a yellow tinge. I was using auto WB so maybe a custom WB would fix it.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Sounds like the camera has an issue...If my shutter is high and it's a very bright day I will get a tiny bit of aliasing on shiny chrome strips that the more vintage wedding limos tend to have, but nothing to cause any distress!

Yellow cast seems weird ..normally ND's give me a red headache and that's due to infra-red contamination.

Ok, so Serggio's camera is going to Sony for repair and hopefully all will be well when it comes back

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

One thing I noticed about Serggio's footage is that it was hand held or on his shoulder. Jody's seemed to be on a tripod which may minimize the moire.
Serggio, what framerate were you using? 24P? 50i? So maybe 4 variables combine to make bad moire:
1 frame rate
2 shutter speed
3 exposure
4 camera movement

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Hi Steve

He was shooting rate in 50P as my original post was all about why profile PP3 causes posterization on the image that Pete Rush was experiencing. Yep you can see it's handheld when the zoom gets tight.

I don't think the over-exposure helped either so maybe the camera does have a fault?? With the clip exposure as long as Serggio had zebras on the whole frame would have been covered with zebra lines as it was blown out 120% according to my vectorscope.

At weddings sometimes you just don't have time to use a tripod but I can keep the camera almost as steady using my support rod.

We will see what happens after Sony have taken a look at it

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Thanks Jody this picture I have not seen in any of my shots, definitely my camera has a problem thanks for your trouble, question these shots you are with the kit lens with full zoom OUT???

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

You're welcome.

Yes kit lens. I started zoomed out at 18mm, then I zoomed in, not all the way to 200mm but close to it.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

jody If you write at full automatic without profiles will be as good as your image?Also if you record at 50p the result will be the same?
Which model camera do you have NEX? i have EA50EH

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I'll have to try again tomorrow, as it's night here now.

I have the EA50UH, which is the North American version. But in terms of hardware, it is exactly the same as the EH.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

the video is perfect jody other users have the same quality without profile,with the kit lens with full zoom OUT???
has ΝΟ trace of moire or aliasing
is one of the best video that I've seen so far, my camera does not have this quality

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I talked to my dealer and he told me to send mails to Sony Primesupport, I sent mails to Primesupport about the problem and wait for an answer.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Searching the internet to see video images from the model NEX-EA50UH (is the North American version) model is best images from the model that I have NEX-EA50EH why;
no trace of moire or aliasing
appreciate any comments you might have
See an example

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I'm fairly sure that all the models would use the exact same hardware (sensor, etc). It doesn't make any sense to me that some would have better image quality than others.

The only difference seems to be the EK, UK and K versions, which have the 18-200mm manual lens.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Quite correct... only the K versions have the 18-200 lens without power zoom otherwise the camera are all identical ... I have to assume that the camera has been set up correctly but the car video exposure is a bit worrying to start with as that was very badly over exposed.

It might be worth going through all the menus on the camera and checking that things are set up correctly ..the manual shows you the default settings which will be a good start point.

Otherwise I'm at a loss ??

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Jody,then give you my camera and give me yours.(joke Jody)

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Chris i make reset the camera with default settings,the problem persists.These problems I have in all rec mode,with or without profile, have posted some videos in Sony PrimeSupport,and wait for the news.This Saturday wedding and I have lost him, it was the first job with this camera, shame betrayed !!!

PS.The problem I have now mentioned a week to my dealer, and do not cover it with another camera until my camera is repaired.Or so I was promised when I bought the camera in fortunes fault my other camera column until my camera is repaired.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

The problem from the first post seems to be caused by u709gamma curve witch always do wierd things in highlight area. I would avoid ,u709 gamma on this camera

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Quite correct but only in 50P mode. I shoot all the time with PP3 and have no highlight posterisation at all but I shoot in 50i which is more forgiving than 50P ... the secret is simply avoid bright areas outdoors if you want to use PP3 which uses the 709 profile and expose correctly. If you look at Serggio's video he posted of the car, you can see how much the footage was over exposed which will cause the issue in PP3 because it's knee settings are different. With PP3 knee settings your shadow details are lifted a LOT ..The simple answer to all this is to lift the colour level up at least 4 points (that will give more saturation and also correct overexposure a bit) and then use a knee setting from something like PP4

Simple as that. I find that the other profiles not using 709 tend to crush the blacks far too much for me!!

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

with this camera you can not get a very flat image with ultra low contrast
for max dynamic range and smoothest highlight transition on EA50 this is my personal setting that you can give it a try.
black +15, Standard gamma, black gamma high+7, knee manual 75%+1slope, color mode cinematone1+8, color level -3, detail -7 (greatly reduce aliasing)

often i feel sony and panasonic put crappy presets on their pro cameras on purpose...

in complex scenes shooting 60p seems to give me more aliasing and moire than 30p
50I and 25p should have less information to compress where as 50p and 60p needs more compression i suppose.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

SOS!!!!!!
The problem with moire and aliasing is come back today,going crazy......I have to shoot video the wedding to evening,going crazy.....searching for another cameraman for the wedding for the second time, I lost three marriages + shame for my store,this time uploading some video to see the problem that my camera,Services by the Sony sent the camera can not detect the problem.in which the one comes and another goes,will require a new camera from Sony.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I don't understand, so Sony service cannot detect the problem yet you say it is so bad you can't use the camera on a paid job?

You say the problem has come back today, do you mean it was ok before?

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

The problem that shows me is so intense that I have not even done a job for delivery to customer. Will upload some link to see the problem, and tell me all users of this camera if you could work with this tradition the acute problems.
Please download the mts not play from browser.
1---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/heum1zfd2w...00215.MTS?dl=0
2---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/h1idlm9tfr...00220.MTS?dl=0
3---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9n5por7j2...00221.MTS?dl=0
4---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl3osr4ap4...00222.MTS?dl=0
5---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dpzz5o9as...00223.MTS?dl=0
the image from sensor
1---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/i24hviycgz..._5093.jpg?dl=0
2---- https://www.dropbox.com/s/mi6ws6wica..._5094.jpg?dl=0
this dirt had not the sensor when the camera send in service, nevertheless He wrote better, but not that better than other ea50 I've seen, from the beginning to buy something that does not stump me, this shows problems we see I do 1-4 times reset the camera and not returned, only when you WANT this will settle down after a while but the problem appears again without being able to identify when self's coming back.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I think what you see is "normal" for this camera, the interlacing/moire artifacts appear worse on fine detail if you are shooting handheld. I do believe however you can use this camera for weddings without much issue.

Maybe some other nex-ea50 users can chime in and download the samples and see what they think?

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Noa Put What you see is not at all normal but no.

has no relationship at all with this video that you have post them here, see the tiles, and a tripod to put the slightest movement has the same effect, there is the issue of the tripod.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nex...-aliasing.html post #1

download my mts and play in full hd monitor i have 42 lg.The camera records in full hd,i make blu ray or dvd,no in Matchbox window,or vimeo,youtube window,FULL SCREEN PLAY, was paid FULL HD and this requires FULL HD,another 5-8mbs and another 24,28mbs.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

I really see no serious issue at all here! The images all look normal to me .. you will always get a bit a shimmer from fine patterned objects but don't worry about them ...I watched a local program on Friday shot in the TV studio with probably $250,000 cameras and there was a bit of both on the set where they had fine patterns ...that's our National broadcaster and they don't worry about it at all so you shouldn't either.

Serrgio? That looks like PP3 profile right?? Go into the profile and lift the colour level up 4 points and then shoot and expose correctly and you will hardly see any issues. As long as people's face are clean, ignore the background ....BTW: Tiled roofs will always give you issues ..with most cameras ... At a wedding you will have no problems!! However you do really need to modify the PP3 profile if you want to use it

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

All I'm seeing is interlace combing and a touch of aliasing in diagonals. I would call that normal for most digital camcorders.

Dave

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Hi Dave

Yep, these are original MTS files from the camera with no processing .. not sure if they were shot in 50i or 50P but to me they look fairly normal .. The Sony PP3 profile unmodified is very flat hence my comment about modding the profile ... it also lifts the shadow detail a lot so it's great for indoor shots but I tend to push the overall colour level up prior to post so my PP3 has a lot more chroma info ... In it's flat mode it will also show a bit aliasing up more than normal. A simple profile change is all that is needed.

The samples are also shot in very bright light and the profile tends to blow out highlights unless you modify it. I would suspect that if this was shot in auto the shutter would have been pretty high and iris at maybe F16 at least In manual the profile tends to still over expose highlights which also causes the odd issues.

Chris

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

Mediainfo said the files where shot at 25 frames/sec, I think what Serggio is seeing is the same thing I saw during that year I had the camera. When I shot below video in a church I noticed an issue with the stained glass, when I shot wide open with a deep dof and from a larger distance the ea50 was not able to resolve any detail in those windows, it looked as if there where some kind of "jitters" which actually was aliasing or moire. My cx730 which I had with at that moment was able to show that detail without any artifacts. Considering that my rx10 is even better then my cx730 at displaying fine detail shows how unoptimised that ea50 sensor is for video, probably a deliberate choice by Sony to justify the lower price of this otherwise feature rich camera.

I sold the ea50 mainly because of it's size as it was too big for me but the "problem" Serggio is mentioning was also one of them

This is the church video I"m talking about, you hardly see any aliasing/moire issue here but that's because I worked around it, just as I had to do with my 550d which was even worse. With my current camera's that's something I don't have to consider anymore.

Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode
 

all video is without any profile in full auto mode 50p 50i 25p