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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Ron,
The trial version of Catalyst Prepare played and converted my PS mode 1080x60P files just fine. I ran them through their codecs weird setting of "Internet 1080x60P MP4" export and Premier accepted them. I don't know why almost all of the export settings are prefaced by "internet"? I suspect that means they are not high bit rate files but for now it worked. Chris, I owe you an apology for saying "if 21db is good enough my camera is broken". It was my brain that was broken. The day before I had looked at some 21 db footage and discarded the idea of using it. I just realized my NLE preview monitor was set to 50% resolution output. I am now looking at some nighttime shots and caught the mistake. It's not bad, footage to follow. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
No a problem at all Steve
You probably have less low light issues than me!! At least with a commercial shoot you can say " we need to add some light here" .. At wedding ceremonies the Church simply doesn't allow it Hmm I think I need an 18-100 F1.8 lens constant!! If I can I keep my gain down between 15 and 18db if I can but when the Church is really dark and my fastest lens is wide open I have no option but to go to 21db!! It's not what I call pristine BUT it is far more usable than 24db It will be interesting to see if the M model gives you a clean image at 24db but somehow I don't think so!! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Did a few tests, Playmemories, Catalyst Browse and Catalyst Prepare. Latest version of all software updated before tests. Catalyst Prepare on Trial.
NX5U 60i LPCM audio files seen by all CX700 60i and 60P AC3 audio seen by all. FDR-AX1 AVCHD 60P with AC3 audio and XAVC-S LPCM seen by all. FDR-AX100 60P AVCHD and 30P XAVC-S seen by all. NX30U 60P LPCM or Dolby AC3 seen by all. Catalyst did not join the AVCHD files together just transferred everything !!! I will stay with Content Management Utility on my main editor as I still have PMB on it and do not want to remove it ( needs to be removed if Playmemories is installed) . Did not manage to get Catalyst Prepare to show camera data but that just may be me not working at it enough. The others seem to recognizes the camera used and data from the files on the SD cards ( or XQD for the AX1 XAVC-S ) Not really impressed by either Catalyst product for transfer compared to PlayMemories actually !!! Ron Evans |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Well received my EA50M late yesterday, damn UPS driver left em for last stop on his route.
Anyway I haven't had a ton to play with it yet, but a few notes. First off for Steve, I looked at the bottom of my camera and it does say EA50H not EA50M. So like Steve I have no idea what's up with that. For me the camera seems solidly built, but not as solid as my NX5Us, but it does have nice solid feel. I'm used to most of the menu and button setting as I ahem been using Sony cameras forever. The only question I have for this here are is there a preference to shoot ISO or Gain? Is one better than the other or just a personal taste as those who shoot photo prefer ISO and those who shoot video are more accustomed to Gain. Also, what seems to be the preferred preset (L,M,H) settings for ISO and Gain? Normally I would preset the Gain/ISO accordingly currently I am running ISO: 200, 1250, 2500 GAIN: 0,12,21 I would set the switch appropriately then run my iris accordingly to set exposure. If I need more I preset the ISO/GAIN limit to be slightly higher for extra boost when needed when switching to audio ISO/GAIN. Does this sound right. I wish there was a way to adjust the ISO/GAIN on the fly when needed. Too bad the IRIS wheel couldn't have been dual function and have a button that would let us decide which setting IRIS or ISO/GAIN we wanted to adjust then simply turn the dial on the camera to manually set to whatever we need. Anyway, like Steve said the screen is rich in color and oversaturated. Still looking for a way to fine-tune this to be more accurate for field shooting. When I get a chance I'll take some test footage and see how it does with moire and aliasing. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
OK have a few things.
First off the camera LCD seems pretty accurate to what is downloaded to my computer. So the LCD accuracy while filming seems close enough to be considered accurate to me. Now for the bad news...There is aliasing. I don't know how much worse than the older EA50H, but it is there. I have a clip where two clips were created of each shot. Clip 1 (for bunny and bricks ) used no picture profile (profile OFF). Clps 2 (of bunny and bricks) is using PP1 with detail turned all the way down to -7. Turning down the detail did help, but there's still aliasing. Now these aren't shots I would normally take but shows how the new sensor is. Shots use the new stock 18-150mm 4.0 lens with iris about 8.0, as I don't have any ND filters yet. Also I don't have dumb or smart Metabones adapters yet for my Canon EF lenses to test. Here's the clip... |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hey Michael
I don't use the manual gain switches at all. I just lock the limit to 21db and let the camera do the math and get the right exposure. If I need to correct I assign the EV value item to a button on the camera and then you can adjust the EV with the thumbwheel from -3 to + 3 which is much like adjusting ISO but you can do it on the fly ... if you use this the EV display on the LCD must be highlighted to adjust it... if it's not highlighted just press the button again then use the thumbwheel to adjust. Works like a dream!! For me at weddings no profile crushes the blacks way too much!! I use PP3 which is modified with the colour level pushed up 4 points and it works nicely ..Then again I have guys in black suits standing with the bride in a white dress so I have contrast issues!!! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Michael,
I have some advice you might not like. I will preface it by saying I don’t know you or your capabilities at all. And I am just some guy on the internet with an opinion. Calm down, go shoot, and enjoy your camera before you make yourself crazy looking for problems. You have had the camera for less than twenty four hours. Maybe you shot hours of different stuff but it doesn’t sound like it. It sounds like you shot a few clips looking for aliasing before you ever pushed the record button. Then you jumped into settings and backed detail off all the way? How can you possibly know the characteristics of the camera in twenty four hours and your trying to fix a good camera already. You jumped into an internet discussion where some of us (read ME) were discussing aliasing and I think that is where your own focus went before you ever pushed the red button. If you read the text before my clip I said I put fifteen garments that were all potentially problematic in front of the camera and they were all fine except the one that blew up. So that is the one of three I showed to you guys for discussion. If you go looking for ghosts with a microscope you will find them. In my not so humble opinion you need to shoot more than a few clips with ANY camera before you go to extremes like taking detail to 0. I looked at your clip and what I wondered the whole time was “why isn’t it sharp?”. It’s not sharp, did you miss manual focus, was AF searching, is it because you took detail out? I don’t know, but you do. Start with basics before you adjust things that may cause you other problems. Enjoy the camera and learn it on your own before you get to concerned about what guys like me on a forum are saying about it. I truly hope I did not upset you. I am very blunt but I mean well. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Steve
I do appreciate the way you call a spade and spade and you are 100% too. I have shot countless weddings and Realty shoots on my cameras ..many hundreds of hours !! They are now just over 25 months old and I'm still delighted. The odd bit of aliasing and moire nobody will see and it produces a good image. I have never turned detail down at all ..I just shoot on PP3 with the colour level turned up to save me doing it in post and every clip is a delight. Michael ? Do as Steve says and enjoy your camera! Don't start pixel peeping and looking for issues that only you can see ! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Steve and Chris thanks for the constructive criticism.
I did use focus assist peaking (yellow set to high). Next time I'll make sure I use spot focus or push focus to guarantee focus. Strange in that the peaking showed the image in focus. Next time I'll try a spot focus or AF Focus Assist. I don't run on auto ficus too often as it can hunt and change focus on the subject. But spot focus should work nicely, and as such I have it set to a button on my camera. I did set the detail settings after reading posts here on fixing aliasing. And yes you are absolutely right in the fact that I have to not worry about the aliasing and enjoy the camera. I was shooting with the camera the same way as I do with my NX5U, and should focus more on learning the EA50 more and develop shooting styles for this camera. Also, yes I did only a few tests with the camera. But with that said the camera did show signs of aliasing even with no PP and default settings. But as suggested I am going to focus on shooting with the camera to suit my taste and not worry and pixel peep how the sensor works. So you know I do have 10+ years shooting video. But only 1 day with the camera. So ill try to contain my criticism and share my experiences with the camera as I shoot more. I can't wait until I get my Metabones adapter from Sony so I can try out some of my EF lenses. And next week I should have my Fotodiox ND Throttle adapter to test our my manual EF lenses with ND on the filter. With that being said I know there are things that I am going to love about this camera, with the main thing having the ability to get that DSLR look without the need to rig up. I can just pull my camera out and shoots if needed. Also, I love the monitor attachment. As I have had to wear glasses over the last year to focus, but when I adjust the diopter I don't have need for them. But do realize why many do shorten the tube. All in all I do appreciate the advice and help while learning the camera strengths and weaknesses. Chris like you I do shoot in low light a lot and like the EV advice. Now I just have to decide which button to replace it with, as I added spot focus and steady shot yo the assigned buttons. And Steve no harm done, as I am also a shoot from the hip person. After all the only way one can get better is with help and feedback from his peers. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Here are a few night shots. Most of them are from the EA50M with a Canon 16-35mm F2.8 L lens.
Most of them are exposed at 2.8 1/15 and 21db There is one shot with the new 18-105 G lens at f4 and 27db I explain it all on the clip. This clip is "as shot". They went through some codec processing for technical reasons but I did not modify them in post. When I did do post modifications I found the ones shot at 21db clean up pretty nicely. Just adding contrast kills a lot of the noise. I have always considered 18db my gain limit for clean shots and 21 my limit for "had to do it to get it shots". Over 21 gets downright ugly. The clips are from downtown Phoenix, AZ I just went for a walk one night after 11 PM so few people were on the street. Password EA50M2 Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hey Michael,
Only having three gain presets before you have to go to the menu is the single biggest gripe about design for most of us. On the good side of things I keep both the gain limiter on and the audio limiter turned on. I feed my cameras a lot of XLR audio in manual and it never clips on me. The status button is also one of my favorites. it gives you a quick scroll through all of your settings. It is especially useful when setting up two cameras to match. I use yellow medium for peaking and pretty much trust it. I like 4x magnification on focus expansion, eight is too much. I sent my Metabones rebate form in two weeks ago. Their tracking system says it was approved and to wait 8-10 weeks for delivery. I will let you know when it comes to give you a real wait time. I have a lot of good Canon glass. It is awesome being able to use it on my three cameras. My current Metebones is a standard adapter too. One of these days I will add a speedbooster. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Steve thanks for the info.
I have always tried to do the same in regards to capping gain on both video and audio. Normally I set the 3 gain settings to be what I consider to be acceptable shooting conditions, and take the highest I'm willing to go and set it 1 stop blow that. Then I set video AGC to be what I would consider to be the max I would ever shoot at. This way I have 3 settings and if I really need more can turn to auto Gain/ISO and get one additional stop of exposure. So in essence I have 4 gain settings and never get an surprises of what the camera might try to boost to in auto. The same goes for me in audio as I always try to set a limiter to keep levels in check. Sometimes I might take a direct feed from a board or sometimes I might send audio wirelessly from a source to my camera. This could be board audio, mic with plug on transmitter on it, or miced audio fed into a recorder and sent to my camera for backup/sync audio. I am anal about audio and always double my audio up. So most all of my audio gets fed into a recorder like the Zoom H5 and then sent to my camera for sync backup. This way I can always monitor my audio om the camera while recording and if anything goes wrong I know it. So I can adjust it if possible and not have any surprises. As for focus I always shoot with zebras and peaking. I wonder if having the yellow peaking set to eb high is too high and I should set tat down to Medium. In regards to magnification I don't use it a ton but might get into the habit of using it to double check and not rely totally on peaking. BTW do you use Auto Focus or even Spot Focus at all, or are you a totally manual focus shooter. With my eyes getting weaker at close distances (which is why I use reading glasses to shoot with now) I wonder if I should try suing Auto Focus more. Oha nd I'm bummed to hear that it's taking so long for the Metabones adapter, as they say 8-10 weeks for delivery, but was hoping that it could be sooner. BTW, I want to contact Sony about why the EA50M has EA50H on the base-plate. I'm curious to hear their response. Makes me wonder if this is just a re-purposed EA50H with a different lens and they call it a new model. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Michael
Peaking on high is much to much!! Never go more than medium ..on high it will peak on everything!! I use manual focus only and rely on peaking where focus isn't critical like wide shots but like Steve I will always do a quick check at 4X expanded focus to make sure I get yellow peaks exactly where I need them .. I find that if you have peaking yellow on your subjects eyes you are 100% perfect (that's at F2.8) but even at F1.8 shots where I have the eyes yellow are sharp as a tack!! I found, like most AF systems the camera struggled in low light a bit but in good light it's fast and accurate and touch focus is also good but still keep peaking on as a check!! Nice images Steve ... I was doing a wedding last night where they had the dancing outside and at 21db there was no noise but I used a tiny splash of on cam light to light the couple as it was pretty dark. I felt that your image on the clip were mostly a tad on the over exposed side so was that you or the camera ..you probably could have lifted shutter and still got a good picture. It's hard to see if there is noise in the black areas on footage that's a bit over too. What is your end conclusion with the EA50M then regarding low light ... I don't think you did a 27db shot on the old camera did you?? Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Quick Response,
Michael, Both of my cameras say Model EA50U on the bottom. The original US designation was EA50UH and the H was often dropped but not the U. Does yours really say EA50H? I am curious about this model number thing to. At one time B&H sold tons of grey market stuff. They still offer some of it. But as far as I know they have always been reputable and declared it. I would love to know what Sony and B&H have to say? AF does not work with Metabones adapters, at least not my Mark II. So all of my Canons are manual only. I do use AF when I can trust it. But this is how I do it most of the time to avoid the dreaded searching. I keep the camera and lens in manual focus and I "pull focus" with the push for auto button. I love that thing. It gets me on or close every time. Then I can change or adjust as necessary. I don't use face detection. I have that preset changed to spot focus to avoid background focusing. I like to tell it where I want it to be. I also set the marker button to steady shot. I am hoping the 8-10 weeks is not real world too. I'll let you know. The official documentation says we will get a Mark II. But I heard they are sending Mark III. Fingers crossed. I was looking my camera over yesterday to see if I had any other set up tips for Michael and found something weird. With the new "G" lens the camera only offers standard steady shot mode, active mode is grayed out. I don't know why. Both work with the old kit lens, I put it on without changing anything to double check. Both lenses have optical stabilization. I wonder what the difference is? Chris, Third shot in is 27db, I say it. its there for the comparison you wanted. Yes they are a little over. Almost every shot had bright light in the frame. Auto would have underexposed like crazy. There is noise in them, but when you add contrast to bring the blacks where they should be they clean up nice. In fact I left the part in when I hurry to catch the train and you can see and hear me over adjust and correct again to catch it. I raised shutter speed instead of stopping down because at 1/15 the train would have been a blur. I thought it would make you laugh. You can see that I do do almost everything in manual modes. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Steve my bad on the nam eon bottom of the camera. Mine does say EA50U like yours does.
I did the same as you and have no use for face detection so I also turned that into spot focus. And yes I have always loved the push auto function on Sony cameras. I never run my cameras in AF, so full time AF on EF lenses isn't a major thing. As long as I can use the push auto function on those lenses then that is more than sufficient for me. I noticed the same thing BTW in regards to steady shot when I was setting it up in the settings. Don't know why active isn't selectable. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
As far as I know the 18-200 is the only lens that supports active mode. I guess for shorter focal lengths Sony didn't feel it was necessary? I really miss the SELP18-200, sold it along with my EA50...
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Steve
Thanks for that! I have had my cams over 2 years now and I have never shot below 1/50th ...I really must shoot a bit of footage at least at a 1/25th and see how it goes ... weddings are pretty slow moving events so I'm unlikely to get any blur! Even dancing is pretty slow but I'm not too sure if I could go another notch down as for us in PAL land that's only 1/12th ..would be OK on still shots but a bit scary on movement!! Did you shoot any of the train moving at 1/15th??? I can't remember!! My camera serial plates say NEX EA-50 only no suffix at all and they come direct from Sony Japan The dealer however calls them EA-50 H so I am sure the suffix is a region marker so the "M" model is still a USA distribution so they would still be a "U" Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Good news Michael,
My Metabones is here. It took just 16 days. It arived FedEx ground. It is the Version II. The current retail version is IV. Thats OK, they get updated constantly. That is also the big gripe about them. You can not upgrade the firmware yourself. You have to send it to China and pay $50.00. But I am OK with this one. I checked the firmware and it is V 40, my other one is V 30 so we will be OK. Also, I do sugest you go to their website for information on the two operating modes it has. It did not come with instruction so unless you read about how to change it out of green mode it will not work properly. Green mode is the default and it does not aply to our camera. There is a way to get it to default to advanced mode. I did it to my other one. Very important to us but it is not on Metabones website. I found it somewhere else. I will try to find it again or try to remeber the process. Now I can run all of my good Canon 2.8 glass on the two EA50s and the Sony G on my VG30. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Does the new model now have a improved sensor and do you see a improvement in IQ and lowlight?
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Noa,
Yes. It is different. I cant say for sure if it is truly a new sensor or if the factory tweaked the old one. I suspect the later. All of the settings for all of the presets are identical. The look is different, possiblely a little sharper and cleaner. Definatly pulls in more light. BUT, I have not seen an improvement in morie, still the same. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Michael,
Here are the steps to change the default setting on your adapter from green mode to advanced mode. Green mode has nothing to do with our camera. It is a battery saving mode for Sony Alpha cameras. If you do not do this you will have to hold in an awkward button every time you change lenses or start up: 1. Turn the camera on without any lens or adapter attached. 2. With a lens attached to the adapter attach the adapter/lens-assembly to the EA50 E-mount while holding the wide open button on the adapter. 3. Keep pressing the wide open button and let the camera boot properly. 4. While you still are pressing the wide open button turn the camera off. Fixed, advanced mode is now the default. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
I just did some testing. The EA50M is clearly a full stop faster (or close to it) than the EA50U.
Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Thanks Steve
Sony Pro here still show the EA-50H as a current model but sadly no mention of the M model!! I guess this is a USA only thing! Bummer I'll have to wait for the M series to be available over here Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Tom
It's almost the same as the USA price ... about 200e more !! I could get from NewYork for $2699 + $230 shipping so that's under $2900 BUT our Aus$ is miserable at the moment (about US$0.76) so it would cost me AUS$3700 + Sales Tax of 10% so it would be more than I paid for my EA-50H cameras 2 years ago!! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi David,
It is a good news bad news thing. I am an old school fanatic about matching. I believe every camera on a multi cam shoot should be the exact same model. I don't like unnecessary post work and I don't like dinking around with profiles. Now, I do have a compromise on my hands. The good news. The "M" model clearly picks up more light. Almost one stop. I say almost, it is probably closer to 2/3. When I put identical lenses, (Canon or Sony) on both cameras and test the aperture settings the cameras will chose, the EA50M comes in 2/3 to one stop different every time. Mostly 2/3 of a stop. I know my clothing test shoot is not exciting to look at but it is a controlled test. In that shoot I did NOT compensate for the "M", both cameras are at 6.3. That is why the exposure looks different, they are. So, in the future when I set up the two cameras I will be setting the "M" to be 2/3 of a stop slower than the "U". Thats OK and easy to do in many ways. Now that I know that I need to repete the test and make the exposure compensation so we can look at "match". They are not a perfect match, here is the trade off. It is close but no cigar. When I get time I will try to show you some images when I have compensated for the exposure difference. I am not exactly sure how much different the match is. The reason there is a VG30 in that test is it is my back up cam and It gives me a small light camera when I need it. It has the exact same sensor as the "U". I is a very close match, I can go to post and let it it ride if I have matched everything else. I love that little camera. I will keep you posted as I am trying to figure out what I have on my hands. Maybe I will go back in the studio and compensate for the exposure difference. Now I can also use much better Canon lenses on both cameras. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Thank you, Steven.
I'm grateful you have taken the time to test and share information about these cameras. Otherwise we would know very little since virtually no information is out there comparing the U and M models |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
BTW Steve and Chris I have a question about the stock 18-105mm 4f lens that comes with the EA50M.
F4 should be fast enough for wedding ceremonies, but I was curious as to the size of the lens for ceremony shooting. I normally shoot with 3 cameras CAM 1 right side shooting bride CAM 2 left side shooting groom CAM 3 center aisle shooting medium frame Shots: CAM 1: Shooting up aisle for processional, once bride is handed off I go to preset tripod on left, sometimes move off tripod depending on shots needed during ceremony. Move off tripod to get processional once B&G kiss. CAM 2: Shoots processional from side medium to close up for groom and ceremony CAM 3: Shoots wide frame when processional happens. Once I move to tripod with CAM 1 I reframe for medium shot. My question is do you think that the 18-105 lens will be sufficient enough for shooting the ceremony medium and closeups when needed. I normally try to get my tripods at least halfway to 2/3 up the aisle for ceremony shooting. I could use digital zoom if needed to get little more each for closeups. But is the 105 enough of a zoom or do I need at least a 20mm zoom for this. The issue I have with this is that most zooms like the Sony f4 are 70-200, and I wonder if that's too much lens on a crop sensor to shoot processionals. Sorry for all of the questions, but I am just trying to get my lens selection in order for a days shoot, as I have one coming up in a few weeks. I currently have the following for lens selection... Sony 18-105mm f4, Sigma 18-35mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm 2.8, Sony 35mm 1.8, Sony 50mm 1.8, Rokinon 85mm 1.4. For a wedding I was thinking of shooting with the Sony 18-105 for Ceremony, Sigma 18-35mm for prep and walk around reception lens. And maybe use the 85mm 1.4 if needed. I would bring the Sony 35m and 50mm as a just in case auto low light lens, but most likely not use it, as I prefer a zoom for run and gun shooting. If I was to add a lens at all it most likely would be a 70-200mm zoom, like the Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 or Sony 70-200mm 4.0. the only reason I would go with the Sony would be to be native E-Mount. Otherwise if the LA-EA4 adapter works as expected with my Sigma 18-35mm (will know on Monday when it arrives) then I would most likely go with that for the 2.8 exposure. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Michael
It should be OK depending on your distance from the couple .. I normally try to be around 20' from the couple on my main camera and that has a Sigma 17-70 lens on it and that's plenty ... However I did a prior wedding and was about 30' away from the couple on a raised mound and at 70mm I still needed to use a bit of digital zoom to get a little closer ...the 100mm probably would have been perfect ... Despite what people say don't be scared to use digital zoom ..I often use it and you would only see issues where things like artifacts and moire are amplified ...I have never had that and it does give you 200mm if you need it Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Chris thanks for the info.
I was figuring that the 18-105 dhould be enough, especially with the digital zoom for a little extra reach. I'm used to shooting with the NX5u which has about a 28-500mm zoom reach. I never needed to full zoom on it too often which is why I wasn't sure about the reach. I remember you mentioning that itit's best to not go full 2x digital zoom to avoid softness so I'll keep that in mind. |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Michael
The only softness I saw was a shot from Noa which was a house hundreds of feet away and he then used DZ to get in closer so it was still a very wide shot and looked a bit soft. If I'm at 70mm and with a tight shot already on a couple and need to go a tad closer I see no degradation on the footage at all with DZ. My typical use would be the cake cutting done at 18mm and as they cut the cake I tilt down and zoom at the same time to follow the knife blade and then reverse the action (tilt up and zoom out) back to their faces and I see no change at all in the footage. I can see how a digital zoom on a landscape shot might go soft but with closeups I see no difference at all. Because I'm running manual and things happen fast (like a ring shot) it's safer to keep focus and then zoom in as the ring goes on and then out again cos the lens focal length hasn't changed so it will stay in focus whereas if I attempted a zoom manually I might not have time to adjust the focus ring. Try a digital zoom on an object in reasonable lighting and you tell me if you can notice if the object is softer compared to an optical zoom ? Obviously if you are sitting at 24db gain the DZ will amplify the noise so it will appear different but in my opinion it's very usable with either good light or a fast lens (I do cake cuts with the 18-35 F1.8 and often with a splash of on camera light too so their is no noise) Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Gentlemen,
This is probably my last post in this thread unless someone has a question. This is where I am at with the two cameras. Last week I shot a gig with them and finally recorded a lot of footage. The EA50M is definitely a very improved model of the EA50U. That is good news unless you are looking to match it with the original EA50U. The EA50M really does have an improved sensor in it. You pick up about 2/3 of a stop in low light performance. But that’s not all. The image does have totally different look. It is sharper and more robust. You can’t describe a “look” in words very well so I will just say it is clean and beautiful. I like it. My initial comment about the LCD screen possibly looking different was wrong. What I was seeing was the improved image, I just could not believe there was that much difference at first. The new “G” lens is superior to the old kit lens in every way. It feels, zooms, and produces a sharp image like it should. It matches my Canon “L” glass better than it matches the old kit lens in sharpness. I was and am pleased with my purchase of the original EA50U. If you have any interest in a camera like this you can get the EA50M with a better sensor and a better lens for much less than I paid for the original model. These will be my last HD cameras. I have to say there is a lot of value there if you’re not already onto 4K. Steve |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Thanks Steve
I think you have said all that needs to be said and the comments are greatly appreciated. Matching wouldn't be an issue for me as when I change cameras I usually change both and sell off my previous units. For me that will probably be next year anyway so hopefully Sony here will have the M model in stock? I'm assuming this is not your last post on the forum? just your last on this particular subject! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Thanks Steve - Interesting to follow this thread. I am thinking of a change next year and am undecided. If I did not need to buy a new car it would have been the FS7 but maybe I'll sell on my original EA50 for the new one. I love the look I can get from a large sensor but hate the DSLR form factor (and I've been using my A7s for a while now - still don't like it) which is why I'd never get a Canon C100/300 or a Sony FS100 - I'm too used to the camcorder way of doing things.
The thing that may swing it though is the 3 gain settings, I know it's traditional but is really limiting, the one good thing about the A7 is to be able to use the ISO dial to control exposure - awesome, shame Sony did not provide this in the new EA50 using the little thumbwheel :( Pete |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Hi Pete
Do you not use the EV function at all?? It's adjustable on the thumbwheel even while you are recording!! I find it really useful when I let the camera auto expose (but with a manual lens) at things like wedding speeches where the background is often dark or even black so the camera tends to overexpose to try and compensate for the dark surroundings over exposing the speaker's face!! Just a quick adjustment of the EV so zebras disappear work a treat for me!! Chris |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
This has been a great thread! Possibly the best information regarding the EA50U and EA50M available!
So the M is about 2/3 a stop better in low light and also sharper.... So if the U with the kit lens at f/3.5 was shooting side by side with the M with the new kit lens at f/4 does the M still do better in low light even with the slight lens disadvantage (only) at full wide? |
Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
Steve got my Metabones adapter today, under 4 weeks pretty good delivery time.
I received the Mark IV however. AS expected the Tamron lens that I have worked for the most part but AF doesn't function with the camera. Auto iris and IS work just fine though. the same BTW goes for my weeks Sigma 18-250mm 3.5-6.3 lens as IS and iris work but no AF. Not that this is any deal breaker. Love the Rokinon 85mm 1.4 though. I can see this being a short zoom in some situations using the cameras optical Zoom. Oh BTW just for the record I was talking to Sony about why Adaptive Stabilization isn't selectable on the Sony 18-105 f4, 50mm 1.8, or 35mm 1.8 OSS lenses and was told that "Active Steady shot uses 2% of the imager (zooms in) and corrects for motion based on the feedback from the lens sensors and what motions it sees from the sensor and adjusts by pixel shifting the image (electronic image stabilization). Active Steady Shot works with the SELP18200 lens." So the SELP18200 has the onboard OSS to run Active Stabilization but most of the other less do not. Quote:
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Re: I'm going to compare EA50U and EA50M
David,
I want to be careful here because I try to provide accurate information and I am still working my way around this thing. A lot of work I do is not with the kit I own, it is with high end cameras so I have not done as much shooting as I would like. But yes, you can forget about the SLP 18200 going down to F3.5 compared to the F4 of the 18-105 G. I suspect but am not sure yet that the 18-105 G will pare better with my ultra sharp Canon "L" lenses than the Sony SLP18-200 because of its sharpness. I will take 95MM less and have a constant aperture zoom "G" lens any day. The new sensor combined with the new lens produces a clearly better image. But of course you loose a perfect match. Michael, Glad to hear you got the Metabones and a Mark IV at that! Mine is the MIII. A word of caution. I think I saw a post of yours saying your Sony A mount adapter seemed to get confused on auto settings, the Metabones will too (at least my MII and MIII do. I read an explanation by Metabones that says both adapters, Sony and theirs will flash wide open before making every auto adjustment. The even bigger problem is that mine ocasionaly get confused and can\'t settle on a given F-stop. The result is a constantly flickering image. It is a shot KILLER. The answer is to never shoot with the aperture in auto. At least that\'s the way mine work. Test your gear. You might think your OK and a shift in light or contrast can bring on the flicker! Steve |
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