VG10 / VG20 Various Topics
 

Was just testing tonite and there appears to be no vignetting at all with this one. Comes with it's own lens cap.

Threads are 72mm on the outside so it could take a screw on hood.

best to all

Charlie

I did some research on these and it seems they all introduce color shift as density increases. What have you found. The best way to check is use a color chart and AE. Dial it down slowly.

Then use the vectorscope in your NLE to monitor the position of the colors as luminance is lowered. The points shouldn't change phase or shift positions.

Try the same thing with a sheet of white paper. No position shift.

SLR Newbie looking for some advice
 

I plan on buying the VG10 by April along with a good set of lenses to cover a wide enough range. I plan on shooting a feature film with this camera so my question is, what kind of lenses (dont matter which brand) do I need to get everything from stellar low light performance, super wide shots that dont warp and that also have a good depth of field, basically which lessen do I need to replicated the look of 35mm film? Also if someone could explain to me how to "read" a lenses specs (I have no idea what any of this:f1.8/35-160mm means) just a basic primer on SLR lenses in general and which I need to get the film look and how to use each type of lens to do so, I know this is a lot to ask but I am new to this world so Im trying to educate myself as much as I can before I buy buying a bunch of random lenses, thank you in advance.

The f1.8 you mention is the aperture setting. This tells the camera how much light to let into the lens. Generally speaking the lower the number, the better the low light performance on that lens.

The 35mm-160mm you mention is the focal length of the lens. Basically put, this governs the size of the shot. Prime lenses have a fixed focal length eg. 50mm. The lens you describe is a zoom lens. It will go as wide as 35mm and zoom in as far as 160mm.

Some zoom lenses can have a constant aperture setting throughout their range. With others the aperture number will increase as you zoom in, letting less light into the lens. Generally prime lenses, because they are designed to work at one specific length, will give a sharper picture and allow you to use a wider aperture setting.

You CAN mount proper 35mm film camera lenses on a VG10 but it is scary expensive to even rent lenses like that, let alone buy them. I'd suggest sticking to either e-mount or SLR glass for now, and checking the excellent lens threads elsewhere on the VG10 sub forum to get a better idea of what range and type of lenses to buy. Because the VG10 multiplies the focal length of lenses by 1.6 a 35mm lens becomes approx. a 50mm lens, a 50mm lens an 80mm lens and so on. Generally speaking a basic setup would consist of a wide angle lens eg. the 16mm e-mount pancake lens, a 50mm (actually a 35mm lens) and some kind of zoom, for which the kit 18-200 lens would do fine. This is a bit of a generalisation, but the wide angle lens is for landscapes or big open shots, the 50mm is for portrait shots - mid range stuff through to close ups and the zoom lens fills in the gaps...

Real Time Camera Function Data?
 

When I play back my video files on the VG10, I noticed that the camera keeps real time function information. (Changing Fstop, gain, shutter values... etc,...)

I have this same feature in my EX1R. I can play back files in my Sony XDCAM clip browser and watch all the mechanics metadata play out in real time as it was shot.

Question; Is that data saved in the video file container? Is it somehow preserved when you dump the files to your PC in the Sony Motion Browser? If not, can the motion browser at least display that info during PC playback or is it available only on the VG10's playback screen?

CT

Don't know about SMB, but it might be worth trying the files in the demo version of DVMP Pro.

So here is JVC's 1080p60 and 4K2K mini-RED
 

So here is JVC's GC-PX1 1080p60 camcorder/camera:

HD 1080/60p (UHR) <<<< H.264/AVC at 36Mbps!
HD 1080/60p (HR)
HD 720/60p
iFrame 960x540p30

10MP BACKLIT 1/2.3" so this should have nice big photocites! Uses up to 8MP for 60p video.

Image Sensors World: Sony CX-News Tells about New Products, 2nd Generation 1.4um Pixel

The FalconBrid DSP will interpolate 8MP down to 2MP rather than have the CMOS sensor skip column/rows. (Skipping cuts the data going into the DSP by 3X or 6X.)

Currently sensors can't run much faster that 10fps -- therefore a 3X or 6X reduction is necessary for them as well. Which means the Sony CMOS chip must be able to run at 60fps reading out a 16:9 8MP window on the chip. In turn this means the OLPF can be optimized for 10MP for both stills and FullHD so all the crap we get from the other cameras will be gone.

Coming soon.

JVC never ceases to amaze...Their falconbird claims to even do a 4K/2K consumer. An interchangeable lens option would have made it really exciting though...

Wonderful movie of shutter angle and FPS
 

Below is a link to a page with a movie that may illuminate the relationship between the frame rate, which for NEX camera's is either 25fps or 30fps, and shutter speed.

ProVideo Coalition.com: FRESHDV by Matthew Jeppsen & Kendal Miller

1) For NEX owners who can't set shutter speed, pay special attention to where in changing the shutter speed slower the pix becomes over exposed until he dials the aperture smaller. This works in reverse. Had he set the aperture larger the pix would have become over exposed until the shutter speed was increased.

So NEX owner first decide shallow or deep DOF. If you want shallow, you open the aperture. Like in the movie, to get the correct exposure the camera will automatically make the shutter speed shorter. If you want deep, you close the aperture. To get the correct exposure the camera will automatically make the shutter speed longer.

2) He briefly comments on why 1/60th is correct for 30fps. The amount of motion blur, which you can see perfectly in his movie, enables the eye to see smooth motion.

3) What he didn't show was that as the shutter speed got shorter, the blade should have strobed. It didn't and that I can't explain. Perhaps that is why he didn't comment on the bad effects of high shutter speed.

4) Notice that when he uses 1/30th second for 30fps, the blur is so great that all detail in any kind of movement is lost. Goodbye to HD!

5) On the NEX camera you can't see the shutter speed before after pressing RECORD, but you can before. When it is too fast, you use an ND filter to make it slower. If it is too slow, you really have to add more light OR use a faster lens. (Or use more gain.)

In my experience, you need to own a F1.4 or F1.8 lens to keep gain low. An F2.8 is the slowest you can use which rules out using with of the zooms with less than 120 watts of light..

6) If you want a shallow DOF indoors, you can NOT use the 16mm wide! You need to buy a F1.8 50mm lens. You need magnification to help with decrease the DOF. Which means the camera needs to be placed further way for the same angle of view.

7) With a VG10 because you can set the shutter speed you can start there. But, I teach that it is usually best to set the aperture first. That's because doing so forces you to think first about DOF which is a CREATIVE choice.

Once you make this choice, its fundamentally just numbers.

And, that explains why the cheap NEX works because you can only set aperture. In fact, the NEX-3 with two lenses is practically being given away. The money you save can buy you a fast prime a long zoom. Which when I think about, means that when you buy an interchangeable lens camera you need to reserve the money to buy more lenses. The kit lens is not going to carry you far.

Tokina ATX Pro 11-16mm - A must buy?
 

Anyone using this on their VG10 via an adaptor?

I'd been after a wide lens for a while after being seriously disappointed with the Sony 16mm (small size aside, it's totally failed to excite me).

I had an eye on a Sigma 10-20mm but I heard several reports that the build quality wasn't up to much. So I went for the Tokina 11-16mm X116 Pro DX (Nikon) which arrived yesterday after seeing some good reviews.

Took it out for a quick play today. Very impressed. It is wiiiiide and sports some lovely build quality. A proper focus ring which you can rack perfectly every time (are you listening Sony?) and at F2.8 it's faster than the Sigma.

OK so it's big and heavy but it's a nice piece of glass that opens up all sorts of possibilities. Line up an interesting shot and start panning and the movement is wonderful. Operation is unfussy, the only downside is that you have to make do with the aperture adjustment on your adaptor which in my case isn't terribly refined. But it works though.

If you get right up close to your subject you can get some lovely images. Although naturally the lens exaggerates perspective so it needs to be used with caution (it's easy to make things look very far away!).

There's no magnification with this lens so you get the full 11mm onto the sensor.

For me this lens is what the VG10 is about. It'll get me shots my other cameras cannot manage and really brings something to the party

Ken Rockwell has done a nice write up so I'll direct you there as he has all the technical info and seems to like the lens: Tokina 11-16mm Review

I won't post any images as the light was terrible today but there are loads of photos online taken using the camera and it acts in video mode exactly as you'd expect.

Zeiss 16-80mm
 

Does anyone have one of these a-mount lenses on their VG10? Specifically how it compares to the stock lens.
I'm thinking of getting one.

Re: Zeiss 16-80mm
 

It's got a much nicer long-end than the Sony 18-55 at almost 150mm and a bit wider too. How fast is it? Hoe expensive is it?

55mm is simply too short for me. And, I found the 18-200 an unpleasant lens to use. Sony, IMHO blew it. The camera needs a 16mm to 96mm (6X) with a constant f/4 speed.

SLR magic 35mm f1.7
 

I did a test with my VG10 and this effects lens at dusk. Results below. Not sure if the effect produced - the lens dosen't have an even focal plane - is for everyone, but personally quite a fan.

YouTube - sony nex-vg10 slr magic 35mm f1.7 video test

Ken Rockwell reviews the NEX-VG10
 

Sony NEX-VG10 HD AVCHD Camcorder

Rockwell, besides being a great photographer and writer, used to setup major studios' networks, especially for film editing on Avids and the like, so it's interesting what he has to say.

Highlights:

"The Sony NEX-VG10 is a large-sensor, interchangeable-lens HD camcorder. It can also stand-in for a 14MP DSLR for still shots. It's a real big-sensor HD camcorder, and an interchangeable-lens NEX E-mount still camera, all in one. Better than camcorders, zoom is direct with a zoom ring, not motorized.

"The funny thing about its sensor is that it is the same size as 35mm motion picture film! If you're shooting 1.85:1, you're shooting 24 x 13mm, and in 16:9, this camera shoots at 23.4 x 13.2mm. It's the same size as masked or 3-perf 35mm film.

"It records on SD cards, class 4 and faster. It makes great video without the panning defects common to DSLRs, and it makes still images handling like the Sony A55."

Lowlights:

"It does 29.97P only. It can't do 24P or 23.976P for serious cinematography. It doesn't do 60i for fluid motion for sports as most people expect from video.

"The NEX-VG10 has no instant manual-focus override, nor does it have a manual-focus mode switch. You have to flip-out the LCD, navigate menus and revert to the manual-focus-only mode the hard way!

"The NEX-VG10 offers no manual focus aids. There is no monitor zoom or anything else to help you nail manual focus other than by looking at the same monitor you always do."

Heath

NEX-5 Expanded Focus while recording?
 

Is it possible to get the LCD to display expanded focus while an NEX-5 is recording?

I searched all around but I can't quite find the answer. Thanks,

Re: NEX-5 Expanded Focus while recording?
 

You want the magnification to remain on? yes it can.But you'll be framing without seeing the whole image. that of course is the advantage of peaking. One needs both options.

Canon FD glass on NEX-5, VG10?
 

What is the crop factor of those lenses when using one of those many FD->NEX adapters available, on the APS-C sensor NEX cameras?

In other words: what focal lenth would e.g. my 50mm/F1.4 be equivalent to?

Re: Canon FD glass on NEX-5, VG10?
 

When you shooting video the Crop Factor (multiplier) is 1.8.

Exposure with old lens on Nex-5
 

I have a Nex-5, a collection of Olympus Zuiko OM lenses and a Fotodiox Nex to OM adaptor. Am I correct in thinking that there is no full manual control of exposure when using these lenses on my Nex-5 ? I can shoot exactly what I see on the LCD when in P mode, but of course the shutter speed varies as I adjust exposure. In manual mode I set the exposure, and shutter speed to 50, but when recording starts the image dims, and as I understand it, I can only adjust the exposure compensation after recording has begun. With the 550D I record exactly what I see on the LCD, not so with the Nex-5

New E-Mount Lenses
 

Some interesting developments, firstly three new e-mount lenses including a zoom and two primes:

Sony Alpha NEX Cameras and E Mount Lenses: NEX 24mm 50mm 55-210mm Zoom Lens

An EVF for the new version of the NEX-5 that might be backwards compatible:

Sony Alpha NEX Cameras and E Mount Lenses: Sony NEX-5N with Electronic Viewfinder

And a 50mm f0.95 e-mount
NOKTOR - Ultra Fast Lenses - Products

Re: New E-Mount Lenses
 

"An EVF for the new version of the NEX-5 that might be backwards compatible:"

Claimed NOT to be.

Forum name changed...
 

...to include the new VG20. Be sure to update your bookmarks!

OT -- JVC 4K2K at IBC
 

I learned earlier this summer that JVC was not going release a camera at IBC as I expected. But this video shows only one of the 4K2K camcorders -- the HD100 looking version.

Interesting comment on editing with FCP.

Dailymotion - IFA 2011: JVC's 4K2K Video System - GeekBeat.TV - a Tech & Science video

OT -- very high bitrate AVCHD
 

I just earned something I want to pass on.

As you may know many GH@ users are modifying the camera's firmware. Typically the 1080p24 bitrate is pushed up to 45Mbps.

But someone has set GOP size from 12 to 3 -- which forces them to set the bitrate so it peaks up to 70Mbps!

Why 3 frame GOPs?

He says that he sees 24p AVCHD does not reproduce the look of 24fps film because although MOTION looks right, often the background remains unnaturally still.

Someone else claimed -- as I always have -- that because each Predicted frame is compared with the Actual next frame and differences sent along with encoded data -- upon playback the output frame is always corrected.

But, I think I'm wrong for two reasons.

1) When the encoder looks for pixels that have moved by a certain amount, by definition, it is ignoring pixels that have only moved a small amount. (The encoder assumes the eye can't see this.) So indeed, the predicted frame may well have areas that are the same as the previous frame even though in reality a film frame would show subtle changes.

2) In theory when error information in generated these errors would be detected. But, since I have no idea exactly HOW the error information is created, it is very possible no correction is made.

By dropping the GOP to IBB AVCHD comes closer to AVC-Intra.

This also forces me to see the value of recording ProRes or DNxHD when shooting 24p.

But what about 720p60 or 1080p60? First, remember that JVC has used a 6 frame GOP for 720p30 which may be why it always looked so good. Second, the faster the frame rate -- the less time there areas that have little motion to change much. Thus, frame to frame background differences are minimized. At the same time, fast motion differences a minimized because the time between captures is so short.

Re: OT -- JVC 4K2K at IBC
 

I don't know why you posted this in the VG10 section, since it has nothing to do with the VG10/20, and belongs in the general industry news section, but...

Cari Lewis is HOT!
And I really like the 4K2K JVC concept. I guess there's no purpose in releasing it, as no one has a monitor that can correctly see what it shoots.

Sound Options in the Nex VG20
 

Sound can be recorded on the VG20 using the camera's decent mike system. Options with the onboard mic include recording in 5.1 surround.

I typically record off camera, so I was interested how camera would sound with a mic fed into it.

Attached is an .mp3 file recorded with the camera, while I was hand holding a Rode NTG2, fed to the camera with the DXA-4 XLR adapter from Beachtek. Sounds pretty good to me.

Re: Sound Options in the Nex VG20
 

Forgot to attach to original post.

Vg 20 interesting review..but true?
 

deleted...review too biased.

NEX-7 Creative Styles
 

Looks like the NEX-7 may be a great, but more expensive, alternative. It has the 5n settings missing from the VG20.

Creative Style:

Parameter selection (sharpness, contrast, saturation)

Parameter adjustment (+/- 3 steps)

Creative Style settings: Standard, Vivid, Neutral, Clear, Deep, Light, Portrait, Landscape, Sunset, Night Scene, Autumn leaves, B/W, Sepia with +/- 3 steps of contrast, saturation and sharpness adjustments

White balance: Auto, Daylight, Shade, Cloudy, Incandescent, Fluorescent, Flash, C. Temp 2500 to 9900K, C Filter G7 to M7 A7 to B7, 15-step, Custom

It has a stereo microphone jack for Sony's ECM-CG50 Shotgun and ECM-ALST1 stereo microphones.

Assume it likely has an audio level control.

Re: NEX-7 Creative Styles
 

YEP....may be just the ticket.

still thinking,
Jeff

LCS-VCD (Sony NEX-VG10/VG20 Bag)
 

Anyone know whether that bag is worth the money or is it overpriced and should I just go for a cheaper one, Im not going to be carrying anything apart from the camcorder and maybe a few lens and a power adapter.

Re: LCS-VCD (Sony NEX-VG10/VG20 Bag)
 

Chris,

I bought this bag a few months ago - whether it is good value for money is not for me to say, but it is very well made and excellent materials. I use it now as my main bag for my NX70, as I can fit the camera in ¨ready to to go¨, in addition to spare batteries and charger.

The only thing which is superfluous for me is the tripod flap on the top of the bag.
Let me know if you want any pictures with the VG10 in the case.

NEX-VG20 settings?
 

Hello, I haven't had my camcorder for long so im not aware of the most useful settings to change on the camcorder, are their any settings that automatically are not very good and I should change?

Thanks!

Re: NEX-VG20 settings?
 

My rules for my own purposes are:

1. Do not use Cinematone, or whatever its called these days. It will seems to add to cause more issues in post color grading.

2. Set your zebras at 100 percent. That will tell you what portion of the image is going close to being blown out.

3. I try to get everything into a manual mode. For about 95 percent of shots, you want a standard shutter speed 1/50 for 24 and 25p, 1/60 for 30p and 1/125 for 60p.

4. The lower the Fstop, the shallower your depth of field will be. If you are shooting outdoors and you want to use a shallow depth of field, get ND filters or a variable ND. Its really the only way you are going to move the lens to the lower depth of field without blowing out the image.
5. In fast moving situations, set your white balance to indoor or outdoor depending on where you are shooting. If you have time to manually white balance, do it, using a simple white board.

6. Try to manually set sound, unless you can't ride it. Then, you should probably leave it on auto. It will be more of challenge in post to clean up, but you will not loose as much. Its a tough call on any on camera mic. I think this one is good, but it picks up camera noise, so consider a separate shock mounted mic still.

VG20 as B-Roll to NX5U and other applications?
 

Good morning,

I'm in the process of shopping for a B-Roll camera to pair to my NX5U (and later an EX1R or equiv). This camera will have multiple applications, including riding on an in-car mount and sitting on a tripod in desert, wind, rain conditions (with a cover, of course). I have a couple questions that I was hoping VG10/20 owners may be able to answer for me.

Application #1: Car Reviews
I do ride-and-drive events for my own series and need a camera that is lighter to travel with than my NX5U, but also can ride a light in-car mount (and by light, I mean a Filmtools kit with two 7" suctions, Matthews clamps and a crossbar) and, at the same time, be high enough quality to be usable for low-end broadcast.

I'll often be mounting this one on two suctions cross-braced between a passenger door and the windscreen (with option for a third leg). Will the optical stabilizer manage this without "chatter" on all but the harshest bumps? I have an old Canon HC10 and though we can make do with it on baby-smooth pavement, even the slightest roughness in the pavement makes the picture fall apart. I'll likely use the 16mm 2.8 lens in this application (or possibly the 18-55). If I can set the exposure to face detection (reliably) and lock the color, that would be an extra bonus.

Application: Motorsports
One thing that attracted me to this camera - in addition to the swappable lenses - is the ability to do 1080 at 60p. I shoot a lot of motorsports for various car makers and need the ability to slow shots on occasion. Here's an example of what I do: Ford Octane Academy - YouTube (I did the rallycross and truck shots in this particular commercial). The "money shot" of the truck jumping (1:01) was done at 720/60p with the NX5U. Anyhow, back on point, I want a b-roll camera that I can mostly set and forget for 20 minutes to an hour at a time. I'll likely lock it down to aim at a particular jump or corner then just start it before the course is hot. I've read that the VG20 has some unusual quirks. I want to start shooting at 1080 this year, and if I do that my NX5U can only do 30p. I'd like the VG20 to fill in the gaps, provide some slow-down effects and also be a backup camera if the NX5U has any issues on location. I have a XLR to mini adaptor with levels and my Sennheiser wireless system has a mini-plug adaptor... so the sound shouldn't be an issue. When it's running as a b-roll, I'll be using the built-in mic predominately (with a dead cat).

I know that's a lot to go over. Any input from owners would be appreciated. I'm not considering the NX70U at this time because I really don't want to spend more than $2k on this second system.

NEX-VG20 as part of a behavoural therapeutic toolset
 

I quote from a friend and colleague who works as a visiting contractor with high functioning autism spectrum disorder kids and teens using video cameras in social roleplays. These include the device of controlled action drama, which the participants devise if capable or act out from prepared script if not.

Currently they are using small handycam style camcorders but would like to add a little production value without the management of the tech becoming too demanding or distracting from the main task.

A replacement camcorder is being researched. It needs to be able to be set and forgotten as an observational tool, capable of being used creatively for workshop drama but simple to operate and finally to be used in another situation in real low budget film-making and auditions.

Here's the question and hopefully anyone who can constructively comment will be appreciated for their responses.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE:
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OK Filmy friends.....thinking about buying one of these......comments please :)


NEX-VG20E : Interchangeable Lens : Handycam® Camcorder : Sony Australia

Sony Home & Consumer Electronics : Sony Australia

Enjoy a level of creative freedom unimaginable with the use of interchangeable lenses. Its 16.1 Effective Megapixel Exmor™ APS HD CMOS sensor lets you record beautiful Full HD video with high-quality audio and with dramatic background defocusing effects...


( name deleted for professional confidentiality reasons ) but what do you think Bob ? and I really dont want a 7D, I want something that will just shoot good footage without the tech side of the 7D


Bob Hart ( reply )

I haven't had my greasy hands on one of the new generation single chip cams from Sony. I'll do a bit of reading and ask a few questions on dvinfo.net and get back to you or you can track the responses.

I think there may be an issue with older editing softwares with the new codec ( recording system ) it uses, which is why I need to check before I get too clever in my comments.

From what I can see, it will be a 35mm sensor camera which will confer a film-style look to your projects.

It will require a bit more techie management than your existing cam but I think will have a more familiar feel to use than the 7D.

It will not be quite as set and forget as the existing cam. You may need to manage light in the venue more diligently, which is I vaguely recall is something you intend anyway.

What "interchangable lenses" it uses, I would also need to look at.

They may be Sony's own ( Minolta derived ?? ) or there may be mount adaptors which allow stills camera lenses like Nikon and Canon to be fitted.

With the larger sensor, lens focus may require more diligent management than the small cams you currently use.

You need to toss up the easy utility of your existing cameras versus the closer to filmic look this one will confer and the distraction that managing it may impose on you.

The filmic look may in itself be attractive to some of your course participants.

Others may resist the increased visual attention selective focus will naturally direct at them in the replays of groups when focus is pulled to a selected individual.

This in itself it may present an additional conditioning or desensitising tool the program can examine and integrate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
END OF QUOTE.

The "H" in NEX-VG20H
 

I looked up the VG20 at B&H and never noticed the "H" in the model name.
Has that always been there or is this a new version? Wonder what's different?

Re: The "H" in NEX-VG20H
 

NEX-VG20 - body only
NEX-VG20E - European (PAL) version
NEX-VG20H - with 18-200mm lens
NEX-VG20EH - PAL version with lens

24p mode with no 1/24 shutter speed?
 

Just noticed this on my VG20.

When shooting in 24p mode, the closest manual shutter I can set is 1/25?

Strange,...where is 1/24 shutter speed?

Line Output into VG 20 Microphone Input
 

Many external Devices have to much Voltage on the Line Output and overload the Input, so its not possible to Record the Sound undistorted.

Here's solution if you want to do it yourself
- 40 db works well tested with SONY PCM 50 D
Uneeda Audio - Build your own attenuator pads
Resistors 2 x 150 Ohm as Shunt at the output and 2 x 7.5 K Ohm in series from the Input

A Finished solution - 25 db Headphone Monitoring without delay!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/750963-REG/Sescom_LN2MIC_ZMH4_MON_3_5mm_Line_to_Mic.html