NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I am really surprised at how little talk there is about the NEX-VG30. I really thought this was going to be the new prosumer cam of choice. I was thinking I would get one to hook up to my NanoFlash and have a killer cam. Oh well I will go back to the shadows and keep looking.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I love my VG20 - shooting a feature with it right now. Might just be the most under-rated camera going right now. The fact that you can get one brand new for $1,300 doesn't hurt much either.

Not sure what the differences are between the 20 & 30, but I can def recommend the 20 if you can't get into an FS100.

My blog on STALHGEIST, the feature I'm using the 20 for:
http://wwwhttp://www.crowboy.com/evi...php?board=60.0

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

There are minor changes between the 20 and the 30, but there are a few that might mean something to you.

Here is a thread which discusses differences.

I have to agree with John that there is more to the VG20/30 line than most give credit for. The one negative that bugged me was lack of picture profile, but I have to say in post, changing look a bit has been pretty good.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I'm thinking of getting this neat little camera with the new NEX 10-18 mm lens.
OSS and on the fly auto focus.

The compression banding on solid tones using my DSLR is getting to me and that's even with magic lantern on it. Then there is no view finder so useless in the real word shooting video unless you bolt stuff on them.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

There's just so much less noise with this camera then a Canon DSLR - even the Mark III - I mean gain all the way up still produces a very usable image. And the grain produced is very fine; a very filmic, pleasing quality to it.

The only real negatives are - as Chris mentioned - no control over contrast/sharpening/color pallet, and a lack of physical knobs. Of course, an XLR port and ND filter would have been great, but at this price range it's a bit unreasonable to expect.

Hands down the best bang for buck camera I have ever owned, at least in terms if image produced. If I were shooting commercials every day, I'd move up to the FS100 or Canon C series, but because I shoot penny dreadfuls with no money, this camera is a God send.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Less noise than a 5d3? Please. An APS-C sensor vs. arguably the low light king full frame (5d3)? Have you tried the Canon yourself? I have it and have tried the VG series - there's just no contest for low noise.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Yes, I have.

I'm a big Canon DSLR fan, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this particular subject. Sorry, the Canon looks grainier to my eyes at higher DB levels - even the III...

More so, I like the quality of the grain better on the Sony's. And as soon as I get that metabones speed adapter, this little puppy will practically see in the dark.

And considering the more then $2,200 difference in price between the two, if the VG20 is even close in light sensitivity to the Mark III then the 20 remains a steal.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I don't have a vg30 but a nex-ea50 and since both have the same sensor the low light performance can't be that different? All I can say from my ea50 is that is has about the same low light performance then my canon 550d, in my case that would mean that 1600 iso is as high as I go with 3200iso if I need to get a shot.
I have seen footage from a 5dIII in the 10.000 iso range that looked cleaner then 3200 iso on my ea50 so it would surprise me the vg30 is that much better?

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

We use a 550/T2i as a B cam and it isn't even close in light sensitivity. So much so that we've basically abandoned using it as a B cam, and use it just for behind the scenes stills.

These are just my gut reactions; certainly nothing scientific. Perhaps the Mark III is better in low light. But is it $2,200 better? For me, it's not. A good deal of it is grain structure, which I personally just like better on the Sony's right now.

Again, a totally subjective view I know. I'll try and post a scene from my latest flick later...

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

For those who have shot with both, are the sound and video control features of the VG30 significantly better than DSLRs? Is it possible to use the on-camera audio on the Mark III or does one always have to shoot dual system? Also, asside from low light, does the VC30 have a sharper image with less aliasing?

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Weird, as I have a 550d as well, I find it hard to believe the vg30 is 'that" much better then the nex-ea50 or even close to a 5DIII. That would mean the vg30 can shoot a clean image at 10000 iso?

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

It's a little hard to compare, because the Sony's use "gain" vs the Canon's "iso" as measuring tool - the Sony VG20 goes on to 30 gain and still looks very usable - but even at low levels of gain, the T2i adds a lot of noise, as do all the Canon DSLRs of that generation.

Obviously the Mark III is a step up, but in my experience - both in use and seeing other shooters work - the III still can't match Sony for light sensitivity (and as I mentioned, I like the quality of noise better in the current Sony lineup).

Your Sony EA50 should be blowing the T2i away for low light performance (assuming the same conditions, lens, etc.), but I haven't used the EA 50, so I can't personally speak to it. I assume the VG20/30 and EA 50 would all look very similar, but that is just an assumption. Sony def has been leaving some bells and whistles out from generation to generation (as they left the VG10's presets off of the VG20), so who knows?

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Sorry I forgot to post this thread link.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-avc...0-vg-30-a.html

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Don't know about the 5D III, but my VG20 seemed better suited for low light than my TI2 or my Canon 5D Mark II. I did these tests when I first got it over a year ago. You be the judge.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Maybe I'm going blind, nit to me it's not close - the VG20 a full step ahead of the "old" Canon's, and equal/nearly equal to the current Canon line-up.

To be clear, I'm no Sony fanboy - in fact I blasted them rather severely for omitting the picture profiles from the VG20. And now that I've been putting the camera through it's paces, it's easy to see why - although less flexible (no color profiles/sharpening/contrast control), it produces an incredibly clean image.

And unlike cameras costing several thousand bucks more, it has a clean HDMI out.

Yes, the controls are finicky, and no, I would want this cam if I worked 5 days a week making corporate videos or commercials, but for things like indie films or concerts (or anything else with low light), I just don't know how you beat this camera for the price. If the EA 50 was just a wee bit cheaper, I'd be all over it.

Let's put it this way - I won't be selling it anytime soon.

And thanks Chris for all your work early on with the VG20 - your videos in large part are why I took the plunge....

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Hey, is it easy to adjust the gain boost manually if you need it on the fly if your fstop is maxed out.
Cheers

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Well, I do have a ea50 and a t2i and all I can say is that they are similar in performance, the ea50 has iso as well so it's easier to compare. If I apply the factory pp3 preset on the ea50 which is very flat but has the most latitude, if I want to match my t2i with that at say, 1600 iso, I need to apply the technicolor cinestyle preset to it. If I use any of the factory presets like neutral the t2I is darker. But the cinestyle preset makes a big difference on the t2I if you want to have more latitude as well.

Noise wise they are the same, I get the same amount of noise at 1600 iso on both camera's, for me that means 1600 iso is the max I use and 3200 if I need to get a shot. That applies to both camera's.

There are ea50 owners saying 5000iso is clean but on my camera at least it's certainly not, the noise levels are allready that high I consider it not usable on a paid production. 6400 iso, or 30db on the ea50 is just plain ugly with bugs crawling around the screen.

Now I do know that a 5dII produces a cleaner image then my t2i, on that camera 3200 iso would be comparable with 1600 iso on my t2i. The 5dIII however is another beast with clean iso up to 10000 iso.

Since the vg20/30 have the same sensor as the ea50 I would be surprised if it would outperfom the ea50 by such a margin as being said here, even up to a level it would rival the 5dIII and honestly, I don't believe it. Just like that there are people happy to shoot at 30db of gain (or 6400 iso) there are others that find 3200 iso already unacceptable. The youtube or vimeo video don't say much because the compression takes away most of the grain but only looking on a big screen in it's native format really shows the differences.

Eventhough I don't have a vg30 but supposedly the same performing ea50 I don't buy it that it performs the same as a 5dIII gain wise. That would be misleading information for anyone planning to buy the camera.

.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Noa, I don't think anyone said they perform the same - at the very least, their grain structures will be different. And without a doubt, the VG20 smokes the T2i for low light performance - I used both of them last night on a shoot and it's simply not close.

As to whether the EA 50 produces a similar picture to a VG20, again, I can't personally say - I haven't used the 50. But if your 50 isn't a far bit better in low then your T2i it isn't performing as well as a VG20. Perhaps your unit is malfunctioning, or (the more likely scenario), Sony has once again done some tweaking. I'm shooting perfectly usable footage at 30 db in incredibly dark places - something I could never do with a T2i - and I have used every ML/Technicolor profile there is.

Far as a VG20 vs a Mark III goes, I haven't done tests, but for my money, the VG20 does very well indeed. Better? Maybe not. But better for the money? You betsya.

But as always, anyone considering buying a camera should always try to put their hands on one first. What looks great to my eye may be total crap to someone else. Certainly the rolling shutter is less on all the Canons then the VG20, and all the Canons have more control over the picture profile then the VG20.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

In that case I can only conclude the vg20 outperforms the ea50 by quite a margin when it comes to low light.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Well only way to find out if the camera is any good or not is to buy one and test.
So that's just what I did, post my thoughts when it arrives.
Then I may get one of those NEX 10-18mm lens with OSS and auto focus to fly on my stabilizers.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Okay my VG30 turned up today, what an interesting little camera.

Side by side with my Canon 60D with the Tokina 11-16 m on zoomed to 16 mm its nearly the same FOV as the VG30 18-200mm full wide.

Early evening outside test.
Canon = 25p/3.5 ISO set to 640
Sony = 25p/3.5 @18 gain
Image looked about the same.

Auto focus is amazing.
VF is amazing.
Lens is sharp and with no real distortion I can see so far.
It shoots 50P :-)
Footage looks great and EDIUS cuts it up piece of cake.
It's a strange thing to use but I can see it being used for many gigs.
Would of been better if more buttons where on the outside.
Mic is useless when zooming or touching the camera but that's an easily fix.

I plan to get a NEX 10-18mm lens on it to fly on my Blackbird or Glidecam.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Turns out, it just might. Phil Johnston over at HD Warrior is reviewing the 50 right now and had this to say:

"Update : I had a further play this morning and pointed the camera at a row of brick houses and surprisingly not a hint to moire, this is good news for the EA50 as the VG-20 suffered terrible moire patterning pointed at a row of houses especially the roof tiles. It’s always a good sign when a camera challenges you to produce poor footage."

Why should this matter? Well, cameras rarely can increase performance in one area, without reducing it in another (and I'm assuming both the VG20 and EA 50 use the same sensor). For proof of that, one has to look no further then the AF100 vs GH2 - the AF100 has almost no moire, but loses resolution/sharpness, while the GH2 is the other way around. I'm guessing (well, had already guessed), that Sony has monkeyed around with the firmware quite a bit between all these camera lines, from the VG10 to the 5N all the way up to the EA 50 (although the 10 uses a different sensor). We know for a fact that they've done much the same with their higher lineup of cameras, the FS100/700...

If true, it means that one particular "brew" of camera might well be better in low light, but suffer worse rolling shutter or moire even if the internal hardware is similar - or even exactly the same. In fact, that seems to be the rule rather then the exception. All of which means it's a wee bit dangerous to expect one variety of camera to perform exactly as another, regardless of how closely "related" they might seem.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

John, that hits the nail on the head when referring to Sony...

I've seen it multiple times that while the specs and issue (when the camera comes to market) dates point to cameras using the "same" sensor, Sony can and does "tweak" the firmware and possibly the hardware both between models, and over time (later cams can perform drastically differently, sometimes showing improvement, sometimes NOT for the better).

I sometimes picture ther labs to be filled with "mad scientists" who are constantly "cooking" the mixtures of hardware and software! Sometimes the result is brilliance, but I have noticed more that a few times that sometimes you "lose" in another area of performance.

I had a NEX5n briefly, side by side with the VG20 (both of these cameras at least on paper share sensors and similar specs), from the bit of testing I did (neither extensive or "controlled", it was just a bit of fiddling to see if the 5n was of use to me, compared to the larger Alphas), I felt the VG20 performed better in several respects, but of course it's a bigger camera more optimized for video - though it actually is not bad as a "stills" camera!

Comparing camera performance is a tricky business at best, as it often takes time to figure out what "tweaks" are available (for instance the RX100 has FAR more image quality adjustments than you'll find at first glance, much happier with it after digging and poking a lot more with it!).

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Well, judging based on below video the vg20 does not perform better then the ea50, check at the beginning of the video and at 02:22 where you see they perform the same with the ea50 even looking a bit brighter but that can be the result of the used picture profile. So, now I take the "VG20 smokes the T2i for low light performance" statement with a pinch of salt, and no, my ea50 is not malfunctioning like has been said. If anyone wants I can do a side by side with my 550d, they perform the same if you are applying the technicolour cinestyle profile to a 550d so anyone expecting a vg20 or 30 having 5dIII low light performance can keep dreaming, won't happen :) .

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Yup, posted that video earlier. Not much use, but it's something. Noa, we'll have to agree to disagree as to light sensitivity 'tween the T2i and VG20.

Yeah Dave, it really seems as though Sony is more then content to fiddle here, waggle there, with the entire NEX lineup. Some of it seems to be done to protect the FS100 and higher models, while some of changes seem to be completely arbitrary.

In any case, it's pretty clear you can get very usable images from the entire NEX lineup at a decent price. IMO, 8 bit cameras will all soon be dead as dinosaurs, so I don't want to overspend on any of these"dying breath" cameras.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I just wanted to put things into perspective for anyone planning to purchase a nex camera, the lower nex line of camera's don't blow away any canon dslr in low light performance, they are very similar at comparable gains from my point of view as I own a 550d as well. It's only the image presets that can make quite a difference on a dslr, if I use the standard factory default presets on my dslr then my ea50 gives a brighter image, especially when I"m using the pp3 preset, but that's not the case if I use the cinestyle preset. But the ea50 gives a better image allround as it resolves more resolution and it had slightly less moire and aliasing compared to my 550d. Noise levels are the same though.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

It looks like my VG 30 is about the same as my Canon 60D in low light.

H.264 compression banding is pretty bad on the Canon's even with magic lantern setting the bitrate at CBR 50 mbps. With the AVCHD 28 mbps it's much better and I love how I can zoom in and out on the fly now.

You can access shutter, exposure, gain and WB all while looking in the VF and can also put any into auto which is great as you don't have to open the LCD door and get into the menu to make a change.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

As stated above Sony is known to fiddle with the hardware and software making differences even in latter releases of the same model. That is why I am particularly interested in how the VG-30 performs nest to the EA-50 or Canon DSLRs.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

People also want to take photographs, so yes, the $2200 difference (I bought a brand new 5dIII for $2800, so if the VG20 is $600 I agree with your pricing) is worth it. Not only do you get superior high ISO, you also get 6fps FF shooting, HDR raw in camera, 61 pt AF focusing system from the flagship 1DX, etc. The 5d3 is amazing and is probably the best hybrid stills/video camera on the market for the money. Not to mention the EF Canon line of lenses.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

The things that puts me off DSLR's for video is the horrible H.264 compression banding on solid tones (try shooting a moving dancer in front of a white wall or an interview) no smooth auto focus on the fly and of course no real time VF so shooting in the bright sunlight is just a pain unless you bolt bulky things on to it.

Here is a little clip I shot the other day @50p.
No stabilization was added in post,
Try an keep your DSLR's that smooth without having to add in stabilization during post.
I was bare feet too.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Our local Best Buy (or Worst Buy as I call it for fun) remodeled their electronics section, mainly making way for a new Samsung section.. As part of this the camera section got moved and re-done. When I went in there last week, I was surprized to see a VG30 out on display to be played with.

I didn't have much time to play with it because I was on my lunch hour, but from what I saw the picture looked very good with the stock 18-200 lens. I liked the bokeh that I was seeing and the focusing speed was pretty good.

The one thing I noticed was the power zoom speed... not matter which setting I had it on, it seemed slow and that would be a problem for some run and gun where it's important to be able to frame quickly sometimes. I'm comparing the zoom speed to my NX5 which is like a rocket compared to the VG30.

Maybe when the VG40 comes out, and this drop to $1000 like the VG20 did I'll pick one up. Or, if I can save the money I'll get one... whichever comes first. Haha.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Well that is one opinion. The VG20 DOES shoot stills though...at 6FPS and RAW as well. And you can
use Canon EF lenses on it, I do it all the time. Plus there is no silly time limit on the video
recording length, no overheating and much better audio options. How well does that 61
point autofocus work in video? That might be neat if it wasn't just a still feature, but I don't
know. It probably depends on how
important FF is to you, and your relative importance of stills to video. For a mainly stills person
who wants to dabble in video I'd go 5dIII all the way. For someone who needs a versatile video
camera and wants to occasionally snap stills the VG20 is much better. I just finished a job that
needed multicam, and I was able to use the VG20 because I could throw a 32 gig SDHC in it and leave
it recording the entire 2 hour show while I shot the main angle with my FS100. The guy competing
with me for the job used 7d and 5d and was trying to figure out how to shoot the show, would have had
to hire a 2nd shooter and figure out when each of them should switch cards and putting together
that many clips in post would have been fun. If you shoot a wide variety of video types the VG20
is much better. For short stuff and narrative the 5DIII is fine and certainly better for stills (although
the VG20 is no slouch here) as well as the FF look. For what I do, the VG20 was a better
hybrid stills/video machine. For you and others, the 5DIII may be, but that will depend on what
you need to do with them.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Great video Paul, bare feet eh great stuff.

Like your chopper on the cay shoot too, looks like you flew over Green Island? We had our honeymoon there 40yrs ago, back in the Betacam days.

Cheers.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Great points Gabe. The 20/30 also have better mics and the ability to carry a longer life battery. The metabones speed adapter effectively makes the 2/0/30 a FF camera if you have to have that look (as well as making the camera even better in low light.

It's also a "real" video camera, albeit a small one. It has a handle. You can remove the video card & battery without taking the camera off of it's tripod/mount. It has a hot show and a cold shoe. It has clean HDMI out, which by all accounts is true 4:2:2 color (read conflicting reports about he Mark III firmware).

Does all of that make the 20/30 a better camera then the Mark III? Depends on what you need it for I guess, but it's hard to argue that the Mark III is a better over all value as a workhorse (esp if you get a used VG20, which are going for about a grand right now lightly used).

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

I recently sold my virtually unused 18-200 kit zoom on ebay for a lot of money (to a NEX 7 fan) and used the cash to offset my purchase of some vintage Carl Zeiss prime lenses. The pictures in the article shows the Zeiss 50mm fitted as well as Sony's excellent 16-50mm motor zoom. I have since purchased a selection of very fast, very heavy Zeiss primes all the way up to the big 300mm F4.0 which has a front glass nearly 5" in diameter and weighs in at nearly 2kg.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Originally Posted by Shawn Clary
"People also want to take photographs, so yes, the $2200 difference (I bought a brand new 5dIII for $2800, so if the VG20 is $600 I agree with your pricing) is worth it. Not only do you get superior high ISO, you also get 6fps FF shooting, HDR raw in camera, 61 pt AF focusing system from the flagship 1DX, etc. The 5d3 is amazing and is probably the best hybrid stills/video camera on the market for the money. Not to mention the EF Canon line of lenses."

This seems to be such a typical comment from Canon enthusiasts, especially the last line. I'm sure if these guys ever had the opportunity to operate with Zeiss CP2 super speed lenses, they would be like a kid in a candy store. Now before the fires of hell descend on me, I too own Canon product but like many Toyota 4WD drivers here in Australia, Canon owners often seem so engrossed, if not biased toward their favorite product, they are often totally unaware of what the competition has to offer. As a retired Betacam SP television commercial producer, (paid very well to shoot and edit Toyota TV commercials for nearly ten years) I have owned and operated some excellent broadcast cameras from Beaulieu, JVC, Sony and Ikegami as well as professional lenses from Schneider, Canon, Fujinon and now Zeiss. Each has their advantages and all were/are very expensive compared with today's mass produced hardware.

I have now owned and operated a NEX VG20 professionally for well over a year (plus a backup NEX 5N) and I agree, it's feature set of interchangeable lenses, large APS-C sensor, RAW stills capability and full manual control offers exceptional value for money. The VG30 even more so, especially with it's zoom rocker and OLED viewfinder. When it was first released nearly 18 months ago, the VG20 offered class leading frame rates up to 50/60 fps Progressive and a 'clean' 8 bit 4:2:2 HDMI output for recording uncompressed to third party SSD recorders before most DSLR operators even knew what it was. The VG20's occasionally criticised 'lack of picture profiles', simply indicates to me the writer's inexperience. There is very little you can do to improve the 'baked in' picture from 8 bit consumer or pro-sumer DSLRs and video cameras. The latitude just isn't there so often the best you can achieve with compressed codecs is learn to use filters, avoid burning out the highlights, then transcode immediately to high quality 10 bit editing codecs like ProRes or DNxHD. As for filters, I employ a small selection of the wonderful Schneider Optics 4x4" glass filters with my matte box and their considerable cost is regularly offset by the time and/or money saved in post production and colour 'correction'.

When there is so much exciting competition on offer, I still cannot imagine why anyone would consider using any DSLR form factor camera to primarily shoot video. At best it is a 'workaround'. The Nikon D4 is the only DSLR to date to have passed the BBC's stringent quality control and useability standards for broadcast television. Both the 5D Mk 1 and 11 failed. I'm sure if uploading .MP4s to Youtube is your end result, virtually any 8 bit camera would do but as a broadcast professional, (content for the moment with an 8 bit camera) I would prefer to rely on the rigorous testing performed by BBC and EBU engineers rather than the subjective comments on popular blogs from the likes of Vincent Laforet and Philip Bloom. Remember, these gurus as clever as they are, seem to be all about selling 'website hits' to potential sponsors and advertisers.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

"The VG20's occasionally criticised 'lack of picture profiles', simply indicates to me the writer's inexperience. There is very little you can do to improve the 'baked in' picture from 8 bit consumer or pro-sumer DSLRs and video cameras."

Well, that's not entirely true though. As noted in this, and several other threads, I'm a fan of the VG20. But there are several 8 bit cameras - in fact, almost all of them in the price class at or just above the VG series - that can shoot flat. Heck, even the T2i and 7D can shoot a flatter profile then the VG20/30 are capable of. Certainly the Panny AF100 and Sony's own FS100/700 can shoot a flatter profile then the 20.

That's because the ability to desaturate and/or control the contrast and sharpening are absent from the VG20/30. Certainly not because users didn't want it - Chris Barcellos and I (among others) were quite vocal in out objection of Sony dumbing down the VG20 in what looked like a clear attempt to protect the FS100. They were initially advertised, but ultimately dropped from the camera. We complained long and hard, but they did it anyway.

So while I agree with you in one sense (trying to grade super flat colour profile settings from an 8 bit camera is usually unrewarding), there are certainly a lot of shooters who have gotten some spectacular results from using just that method. If you have the time, money, computing firepower, the right programs, and a great DI guy, you can make even the T2i sing using a super flat profile. Those guys include Phill Bloom, who made an entire DVD on how to shoot a flat profile with Canons (and is what essentially got him on his way of internet camera guru).

Personally, I just "make due" with the baked in VG20 look (which I like quite a bit), but I'd also like the option to shoot flat if I wanted/needed to. And that option IS clearly missing from the VG series of cameras. Certainly not a deal breaker for me, but yeah, it is for some - Mr. Bloom being one of them as he dismissed the camera entirely on his forum... which is perfectly legit.

If you want flat, you don't want a VG20/30.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Hi John, Although I agree with you to a point, I still think all this is just a painful workaround with an 8 bit camera. Bloom initially criticised the camera (VG20) virtually unseen with 'DSLR like rolling shutter' comments, then went on to use and promote his pet brand of DSLRs.

8 bit limitations can be offset somewhat by immediately transcoding to and editing with 10 bit intra-frame codecs like DNxHD but as I mentioned previously, I use Schneider Optics 4x4" glass filters in my matte box and they offer several 'lowcon' and 'digicon' filter options which achieve just that 'flat' effect without the need for camera specific 'picture profiles'. These filters drop the highlights whilst raising the black levels a similar amount to compress the image into a 'flat' profile in a similar way that Dolby noise reduction systems compress the dynamic range of sound recordings. I shoot primarily outdoors in Australia, the land of high contrast lighting so I've found Schneider's 'lowcons' are a great way of 'protecting' the original image. The VG20's recording 'gamma' can be simply adjusted by careful manipulation of exposure compensation and/or the 'knee clip' adjustment provided by the included backlight compensation circuits.

I guess I'm biased here but pushing the limits of low budget 8 bit cameras to create 'artistic' videos for internet audiences may have merit for the enthusiastic hobbyist but I'm sure once corporate funding is in the offing, the 10 bit workflow just has so much more to offer. That being said, I'm more than happy with the results I'm achieving with my low budget, lightweight and well thought out VG20/Zeiss combination.

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Craig, could you (or anyone) like to explain how you use the backlight function? I generally just keep it off... What am I missing?

Re: NEX-VG30 Did it miss the mark?
 

Hi John. The 'backlight compensation' feature was a hardware switch on the side on my Ikegami broadcast cameras and it can be very handy when you understand it's operation.

You'll need to picture a correctly exposed B&W scene on your waveform monitor. Normally, the camera will be set up to expose a scene correctly ie: generally with the sun or light source behind the operator. The 'blacks' will be black and sit at the bottom of the monitor and the 'whites' will sit on (or just above) the 100% gradation. Across the middle will sit everything else, their vertical position depending on their brightness.

If you were to open your iris a stop whilst watching the waveform monitor, you will see the 'middle' of the picture lift up and generally, (depending on how the camera is 'set up') the 'knee clip' circuits will prevent the whites from rising much above the 100% gradation. This action 'compresses' the picture and is usually what backlight compensation circuits do. The typical use for such a feature would be to say, shoot a dark skinned person against a bright background. I set mine on the Ikegamis to about 2 stops with white clip at 98% so flipping the switch when entering a dim room with sunlight streaming in through the windows, the room just 'opened up' and the windows went to 98%. Just perfect for the nightly news as the other network guys often came back with pictures too dark to see.

The VG20's backlight comp circuit works the same way and it can be integrated with the 'exposure' comp. feature. When combined with the Schneider lowcon or digicon filters, it's a great match so an ideal alternative to 'picture profiles'. Remember, film cameras never had digital 'picture profiles'!

PS: I should remind readers that my entire professional output is delivered on an 8 bit 4:2:0 HD video medium called BluRay. If I were paid to produce for cinema, I would not be shooting on an 8 bit camera.