HC1000 -- various questions

Ronald Lee · July 29th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Is the HC1000 the same as the HC1?

Anyhow, I read that same review that slammed it. Boyd's points are on the money, the cons are reasons why Sony shot itself in the foot.

That and that HDV is unusable to pro applications right now because of the mpeg2. BUT I HOPE (Please, please, please) solutions to that come out at the end of the year.

I'm still shooting miniDV/DVCAM because of the HDV cons. When it looks like the HDV cons may be fixed, the DVX2000 on P2 may be out and that may be the one to get.

Tom Hardwick · July 29th, 2005, 01:39 PM

I agree, getting away from tape is the way to go. But a 60 minute, 13 gB tape for a couple of dollars is a whole world away from solid state memory. Prices will drop, but for now, tape is king.

Boyd Ostroff · July 29th, 2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Ng

Is the HC1000 the same as the HC1?

Nope, not even close. Thanks Sony for giving us such confusing model numbers! ;-)

The HC-1000 is a repackaging of the TRV-950. It has three 1/4.7" CCD's and doesn't shoot HDV. The HC1 is a small single chip HDV camera.

Boyd Ostroff · August 3rd, 2005, 03:30 PM

I was just reading a thread about the HC-1 where Stu Holmes mentioned that you can't really control exposure and shutter speed manually, and this was similar to the HC-1000. So I looked at the PDF of the HC-1000 manual and was surprised to find this was true. I didn't know that!

Evidently if you set manual shutter speed you can't control iris or gain manually. If you choose manual exposure control you can't choose the shutter speed. It's really too bad the way Sony has "dumbed down" this camera in the progression from TRV-900 to TRV-950 to HC-1000, but that may very well be what consumers want.

Sandra Warshaw · August 3rd, 2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I've shot out in the sun with an NDx8 screw-in filter and needed to raise the shutter speed to get a good exposure.

In a recent entry, the NDx8 filter was recommended to reduce glare.

Which other ones would be good choices to reduce glare with the HC1000 (or companion cameras)?

My new HC1000 is on the way...and would like to be prepared to address the documented exposure challenges...described here.

I realize there are articles (web and otherwise) about best lenses for specific uses. But, continue to find I learn more from the entries here...from people using the specific camera (HC1000)(and its companions) that I'm purchasing.

Thanks in advance for taking time to respond. ALL responses help.... to understand potential, limitations and best ways to meet challenges of the camera.

Boyd Ostroff · August 3rd, 2005, 05:44 PM

Actually ND filters don't do anything to reduce glare, they just reduce the amount of light coming into the camera. That quote of mine was with regard to shooting in bright sunlight without having to use a high shutter speed.

Acutally I just learned that the HC-1000 doesn't seem to have a full manual mode like the TRV-950 or PDX-10 - see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=16. Having a few ND filters might come in handy, but actually I'd suggest getting your hands on the camera first and learning what it's capable of.

The 37mm filters are inexpensive and widely available if and when you need them. I got mine filters at a local Ritz Camera store.

Tom Hardwick · August 3rd, 2005, 11:36 PM

Interesting that Sony worldwide has just taken a huge hit on profitability, with hundreds laid off and share prices on the tumble. But when you look at what's happened since 1998 - TRV900, 950, 1000, you get the idea that someone in charge isn't paying attention, and that in fact consumers do know their onions, and have gone elsewhere to buy.

Fine to make a dumbed-down HC1000, just don't abandon the ''compact VX2100'' market, Sony. Folk like us with the VX or PD might well be wanting a more compact cam for backup, unattended recording, holidays and so on. The TRV900 was just that camera, but if you look through the Sony catalogue now there's this huge void between the FX1 and the HC1000.

Panasonic have been quick to answer the call, and their proliferation of three-chippers has earned them a deserved following. Sony's arrogance led them into MicroMV fields, and their clinging to ATRAC rather than accepting the lesser MP3 has let Apple trounce them with impunity. It's like the impala killing the panther.

tom.

Tom Hardwick · August 3rd, 2005, 11:47 PM

Boyd's right, the NDs only soak light. Hopefully in a neutral way, hence the name. I wouldn't have thought them desirable or necessary with the HC1000 for a variety of reasons, and here goes.

The 1000 will have two or three internal NDs that float about with impunity and with no direct control from the operator. I'm sure Sony will have considered the Antartica trip, and added enough ND and shutter speeding to cover all lighting eventualities.

And internal ND is the place to have it funnily enough. The very short focal lengths on modern camcorders (especially when used with much needed wide-angle converters) means that filters fitted in front of the zoom bring with them lots of opportunity for flare, dist, fingerprints, and these find themselves being recorded onto tape with the huge dof.

Internal filtering is the cheap way to go and at the same time is safe from any of these failings. The HC1000's spec indicated that it's not really aimed at the filter adding, exposure tweaking, lens adding crowd. It's just designed to do all the photographic calculations for you, while you get on with pointing it in the right direction

tom.

Sandra Warshaw · August 4th, 2005, 02:41 AM

WHY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH IF ANY ND FILTERS MAY BENEFIT HC1000... PRIOR TO ARRIVAL OF CAMERA

My reason for trying to figure out which (if any) ND filters could help compensate for the HC1000's limitations is that my new HC1000 will arrive tomorrow or the day after...

...and then I only have seven days to try out the camera to determine if it's okay (based on store's return/exchange policy).

I live in a rural area where 37mm lenses aren't available at local stores...
so I'll be needing to order them from out of area.

But I figured if I ordered one (or several) tomorrow...it could arrive in time for me to try out with camera...before I needed to determine if the HC1000 was okay.

Trying not to make a long entry...longer... Some of my problems with the first HC1000 were described in other entry "Flickering/shimmering/spiraling problems w new HC1000."

Why interest in ND FILTERS? I believe that overexposure did NOT cause the problem...but I suspect that overexposure might have contributed. So, I want to be ready...to possibly compensate for problem...in case problem reappears.

Of course...I hope it doesn't!

But you know Murphy's law...if I order the ND filters...I won't need them. But...naturally...if I don't order them...they would be the perfect fix.

So...my interest in the ND filters is that I'm hoping they can help reduce the problem if it does appear.

Thanks again for input! Haven't been able to find anything like it on other forums!

Tom Hardwick · August 4th, 2005, 03:19 AM

If the camera does veer on the side of over-exposure Sandra (and of course production tolerances mean that all cameras veer one side or the other to a lesser or greater extent) then adding NDs up front won't help at all. Why? because the camera will simply assume it's got darker out there and open the aperture to compensate - bringing you back to square one.

The only way around this is to use the AE shift feature (if the camera has such a thing) or even the spotlight mode is worth a try. Best way of course is to be in full manual control of the gain, aperture, shutter speed and ND filters, but you have to get to the PD170 before independence from the automation is truely yours.

tom.

Stephen Finton · August 4th, 2005, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

The only way around this is to use the AE shift feature (if the camera has such a thing)...

Yes, it does have AE Shift.

Stephen Finton · August 4th, 2005, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I was just reading a thread about the HC-1 where Stu Holmes mentioned that you can't really control exposure and shutter speed manually, and this was similar to the HC-1000. So I looked at the PDF of the HC-1000 manual and was surprised to find this was true. I didn't know that!

Evidently if you set manual shutter speed you can't control iris or gain manually. If you choose manual exposure control you can't choose the shutter speed. It's really too bad the way Sony has "dumbed down" this camera in the progression from TRV-900 to TRV-950 to HC-1000, but that may very well be what consumers want.

Poppycock! When you are in Manual Exposure, Shutter is greyed-out. Select Auto Exposure, then go to shutter and select your manual shutter speed. Then Go back to Exposure and select Manual Exposure, this will lock you manual Shutter setting and lets you change exposure manually afterwards.

Boyd Ostroff · August 4th, 2005, 07:51 AM

Oh, OK. The manual didn't make that clear. In fact, they've changed the format of the manual from the VX-2000, TRV-950 and PDX-10 manuals which are pretty similar. Those manuals have a section on using manual controls, but the HC-1000 only seems to mention these adjustments in the section about using the menus at the end. I looked pretty quickly at the PDF though, so maybe I missed that part?

Stephen Finton · August 4th, 2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Oh, OK. The manual didn't make that clear. In fact, they've changed the format of the manual from the VX-2000, TRV-950 and PDX-10 manuals which are pretty similar. Those manuals have a section on using manual controls, but the HC-1000 only seems to mention these adjustments in the section about using the menus at the end. I looked pretty quickly at the PDF though, so maybe I missed that part?

I believe it is called Shutter Priority.

Boyd Ostroff · August 4th, 2005, 01:46 PM

This is what confuses me - page 59 in the manual:

-------------
The shutter speed cannot be changed while you are using the following functions:

- Flexible spot meter
- Exposure
--------------

But you're saying that the shutter speed can first be set, then you can go into manual exposure mode and that speed will stay in effect while you adjust the iris/ND setting? Actually, that's the same as the VX-2000 and PDX-10, but it's implemented a little differently with real buttons and wheels instead of the touch screen.

July 29th, 2005, 01:33 PM	#76
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Is the HC1000 the same as the HC1? Anyhow, I read that same review that slammed it. Boyd's points are on the money, the cons are reasons why Sony shot itself in the foot. That and that HDV is unusable to pro applications right now because of the mpeg2. BUT I HOPE (Please, please, please) solutions to that come out at the end of the year. I'm still shooting miniDV/DVCAM because of the HDV cons. When it looks like the HDV cons may be fixed, the DVX2000 on P2 may be out and that may be the one to get.

July 29th, 2005, 01:39 PM	#77
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I agree, getting away from tape is the way to go. But a 60 minute, 13 gB tape for a couple of dollars is a whole world away from solid state memory. Prices will drop, but for now, tape is king.

August 3rd, 2005, 03:30 PM	#79
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I was just reading a thread about the HC-1 where Stu Holmes mentioned that you can't really control exposure and shutter speed manually, and this was similar to the HC-1000. So I looked at the PDF of the HC-1000 manual and was surprised to find this was true. I didn't know that! Evidently if you set manual shutter speed you can't control iris or gain manually. If you choose manual exposure control you can't choose the shutter speed. It's really too bad the way Sony has "dumbed down" this camera in the progression from TRV-900 to TRV-950 to HC-1000, but that may very well be what consumers want.

August 3rd, 2005, 05:44 PM	#81
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Actually ND filters don't do anything to reduce glare, they just reduce the amount of light coming into the camera. That quote of mine was with regard to shooting in bright sunlight without having to use a high shutter speed. Acutally I just learned that the HC-1000 doesn't seem to have a full manual mode like the TRV-950 or PDX-10 - see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=16. Having a few ND filters might come in handy, but actually I'd suggest getting your hands on the camera first and learning what it's capable of. The 37mm filters are inexpensive and widely available if and when you need them. I got mine filters at a local Ritz Camera store.

August 3rd, 2005, 11:36 PM	#82
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Interesting that Sony worldwide has just taken a huge hit on profitability, with hundreds laid off and share prices on the tumble. But when you look at what's happened since 1998 - TRV900, 950, 1000, you get the idea that someone in charge isn't paying attention, and that in fact consumers do know their onions, and have gone elsewhere to buy. Fine to make a dumbed-down HC1000, just don't abandon the ''compact VX2100'' market, Sony. Folk like us with the VX or PD might well be wanting a more compact cam for backup, unattended recording, holidays and so on. The TRV900 was just that camera, but if you look through the Sony catalogue now there's this huge void between the FX1 and the HC1000. Panasonic have been quick to answer the call, and their proliferation of three-chippers has earned them a deserved following. Sony's arrogance led them into MicroMV fields, and their clinging to ATRAC rather than accepting the lesser MP3 has let Apple trounce them with impunity. It's like the impala killing the panther. tom.

August 3rd, 2005, 11:47 PM	#83
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Boyd's right, the NDs only soak light. Hopefully in a neutral way, hence the name. I wouldn't have thought them desirable or necessary with the HC1000 for a variety of reasons, and here goes. The 1000 will have two or three internal NDs that float about with impunity and with no direct control from the operator. I'm sure Sony will have considered the Antartica trip, and added enough ND and shutter speeding to cover all lighting eventualities. And internal ND is the place to have it funnily enough. The very short focal lengths on modern camcorders (especially when used with much needed wide-angle converters) means that filters fitted in front of the zoom bring with them lots of opportunity for flare, dist, fingerprints, and these find themselves being recorded onto tape with the huge dof. Internal filtering is the cheap way to go and at the same time is safe from any of these failings. The HC1000's spec indicated that it's not really aimed at the filter adding, exposure tweaking, lens adding crowd. It's just designed to do all the photographic calculations for you, while you get on with pointing it in the right direction tom.

August 4th, 2005, 02:41 AM	#84
Sandra Warshaw Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 26	WHY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH IF ANY ND FILTERS MAY BENEFIT HC1000... PRIOR TO ARRIVAL OF CAMERA My reason for trying to figure out which (if any) ND filters could help compensate for the HC1000's limitations is that my new HC1000 will arrive tomorrow or the day after... ...and then I only have seven days to try out the camera to determine if it's okay (based on store's return/exchange policy). I live in a rural area where 37mm lenses aren't available at local stores... so I'll be needing to order them from out of area. But I figured if I ordered one (or several) tomorrow...it could arrive in time for me to try out with camera...before I needed to determine if the HC1000 was okay. Trying not to make a long entry...longer... Some of my problems with the first HC1000 were described in other entry "Flickering/shimmering/spiraling problems w new HC1000." Why interest in ND FILTERS? I believe that overexposure did NOT cause the problem...but I suspect that overexposure might have contributed. So, I want to be ready...to possibly compensate for problem...in case problem reappears. Of course...I hope it doesn't! But you know Murphy's law...if I order the ND filters...I won't need them. But...naturally...if I don't order them...they would be the perfect fix. So...my interest in the ND filters is that I'm hoping they can help reduce the problem if it does appear. Thanks again for input! Haven't been able to find anything like it on other forums!

August 4th, 2005, 03:19 AM	#85
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	If the camera does veer on the side of over-exposure Sandra (and of course production tolerances mean that all cameras veer one side or the other to a lesser or greater extent) then adding NDs up front won't help at all. Why? because the camera will simply assume it's got darker out there and open the aperture to compensate - bringing you back to square one. The only way around this is to use the AE shift feature (if the camera has such a thing) or even the spotlight mode is worth a try. Best way of course is to be in full manual control of the gain, aperture, shutter speed and ND filters, but you have to get to the PD170 before independence from the automation is truely yours. tom.

August 4th, 2005, 07:51 AM	#88
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Oh, OK. The manual didn't make that clear. In fact, they've changed the format of the manual from the VX-2000, TRV-950 and PDX-10 manuals which are pretty similar. Those manuals have a section on using manual controls, but the HC-1000 only seems to mention these adjustments in the section about using the menus at the end. I looked pretty quickly at the PDF though, so maybe I missed that part?

August 4th, 2005, 01:46 PM	#90
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	This is what confuses me - page 59 in the manual: ------------- The shutter speed cannot be changed while you are using the following functions: - Flexible spot meter - Exposure -------------- But you're saying that the shutter speed can first be set, then you can go into manual exposure mode and that speed will stay in effect while you adjust the iris/ND setting? Actually, that's the same as the VX-2000 and PDX-10, but it's implemented a little differently with real buttons and wheels instead of the touch screen.