Pure speculation at DVinfo.net

Boyd Ostroff · October 8th, 2004, 10:48 AM

This is borderline as to whether it should be in area 51, but I am including a link for those who may not follow the other forums here. The following is an excerpt from a post by Jos Svendsen in the HDR-FX1 forum.

Quote:

Less than 99% confirmed facts
---------------------------------------
PD-170 will get a refresh if demand is high enough. Else it will slowly fade out. May be used i a pricewar with Pana and Canon.
Same goes for PDX-10. There will not be a HC-1000 in prof. edition. Sony wants a consumer line (sd), a serious consumer(HDV), a low end pro (HDV) and a pro line (HD)

Kurth Bousman · October 8th, 2004, 04:23 PM

Boyd- I don't think sony will jump wholeheartedly into hdv because there's still too much uncertainty in the workflow - I'll bet they upgrade both the pd170 and pdx10 before its over- many of the big guys throw out improvements in their lesser products to test their acceptance , i.e. pc350- I think we'll see a progressive implementation in their dvcam line before they can cut and run- there's simply too many people working in dv . Of course another pathway might be that hdv is jumped on by all and we see alot of lower priced products hit the market, in which then dv would die a fast death. With dvd's and home projector resolutions pretty much in line with dv and with hdv still not having those easy solutions to exhibition , I think there's another 3 years before dv is dead in the water. Of course this is coming from someone who still loves his sony hi8 camera !One more thing - don't you think everyone on this forum is watching the fx1 thread ?? Even as simply a dv camera, it's cooler than swiss cheese !

Boyd Ostroff · October 8th, 2004, 05:29 PM

You make a good case... but who knows? I have consistently been wrong in trying to second guess Sony. But I have to admit that I'm also getting the impression that the PDX-10 may be the end of the line. I wonder if it sells in sufficient quantities to make an update profitable? Also interesting that they have not offered any PDX-10 rebate like they have with the PD-170...

Jos Svendsen · October 16th, 2004, 10:31 AM

Well let me chip in as well. I think that the important thing to consider is that the FX-1 is capable of SD as well.
Sony is a company in a bit of financial trouble. Mainly due to their arrogance in believing that they could set the marked standards. MemoryStick, Atrac, and DVCAM are just some of them. I have the understanding that they really wants to be costeffective in the R&D department, as they have some huge investments in front of them - Playstation 3, Blue Ray. LCD-tvs

I believe that this mean that they want to be as smart as possible in their new camcorder lineup.

The Sony rep I cornered at this pressmeeting, was very short of saying - No there'll be no more semi-pro SD camcorders. I read him the Canon quote: "The Xl2 is our last SD-camcorder" He replied: "Well the important thing is to notice that all HDV camcorders will also do SD". He then talked about the PD-170 as Canon-fodder, and mentioned that the FX-1 is the top model, and that there will be several smaller prosumer models.

I think the PD170 and PDX-10 will be kept alive as long as they sells - and any replacement will be a HD model. Think of it. They have written off the development costs of these models. Thats makes it possible to cut margens and go into a pricewar. And a PC350 like HDV-camera maybe with only one CCD at a pricelevel around 2200 $ (price is pure speculation from my side) will turn the prosumer marked upside down.

Sony very clearly stated that they really really want to lead the HDV marked. And I think that they will, if they go into a HDV-blitzkrig

Harvey Shiner · October 16th, 2004, 10:54 AM

"that the FX-1 is capable of SD as well" - I recently saw this new camera at Photokina being demonstrated in HD attached to a 40inch Plasma Screen. I asked the rep there to change the setting over to SD and the picture looked awefull, just like one of the first VHS camcorder pictures. But in HD the image quality was awesome

Jos Svendsen · October 17th, 2004, 05:29 AM

I see it another way. After seeing HDV, the pictures from any SD camera looks like ****.

I have seen a HD demo, where a performance was recorded with two cameras. One SD and one HD. Then the performance started with one minute of SD, where the presenter talked about the high quality. The whole audience sort of small talked about that the quality was OK, but this HD thing was not too impressive. Then they switched to HD, and blew the socks of the audience, when they switched back to SD, the audience started booing.

My point is that with a HDV, you do not need a second SD camera. If your business is primary SD, then use the SD-mode, and switch to HD when needed. If you invest in a SD-cam then your stuck.

And FX-1 is not a bad SD-performer (better than PD-170) as I can understand from a japanese website.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · October 17th, 2004, 06:03 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jos Svendsen :

My point is that with a HDV, you do not need a second SD camera. If your business is primary SD, then use the SD-mode, and switch to HD when needed. If you invest in a SD-cam then your stuck. -->>>

Which is exactly the way that I'm starting to think... as long as the Sony will give broadcast quality SD in 16:9...

Robin

Boyd Ostroff · October 17th, 2004, 09:24 AM

I think the best of both worlds will be if you can shoot in HDV mode on the FX-1, then output anamorphic 16:9 SD via firewire. This would give you HD source material for future use, but allow you to work with regular DV for current projects using your existing computer hardware and software.

The FX-1 specs imply it's possible, and I and others have asked this question, but so far we don't seem to have a definitive answer.

Kurth Bousman · October 17th, 2004, 12:52 PM

In a recent link provided by C Murphey, in the hdv forum , you can download a nice brochure , in where it states " High Performance Down Conversion Function " and I don't think this camera has usb2 so ... - well , that only means one thing to me. the link is
www.schweizervideo.ch/pdf/so...duktinfo c1.pdf

I have to admit Boyd , I'm seriously considering this camera just for this very reason. For less than twice the cost of a pdx10. I only wish Harvey would elaborate more. I have read a few contrary opinions here that state , on a forty inch or so plasma , the difference between the images of dv and hdv were not that great . Anyway , the immediate grail would be more satisfied by the ability to shoot in hdv and dub into dv or just output to a nle over the firewire direct. In that case this camera must be used as both camera and deck, which makes it even more valuable.
Concerning the other sony upgrades , I think we'll see maybe a pd200 with an improved pdx10 chip and possibly a progressive function but who wants to wait ??Maybe I've convinced myself of the opposite position. Maybe this camera DOES kill the pdx10 and pd170. How I'd love a hdv model of the pc350. I'd buy it today !take care - Kurth

October 16th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#4
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	Well let me chip in as well. I think that the important thing to consider is that the FX-1 is capable of SD as well. Sony is a company in a bit of financial trouble. Mainly due to their arrogance in believing that they could set the marked standards. MemoryStick, Atrac, and DVCAM are just some of them. I have the understanding that they really wants to be costeffective in the R&D department, as they have some huge investments in front of them - Playstation 3, Blue Ray. LCD-tvs I believe that this mean that they want to be as smart as possible in their new camcorder lineup. The Sony rep I cornered at this pressmeeting, was very short of saying - No there'll be no more semi-pro SD camcorders. I read him the Canon quote: "The Xl2 is our last SD-camcorder" He replied: "Well the important thing is to notice that all HDV camcorders will also do SD". He then talked about the PD-170 as Canon-fodder, and mentioned that the FX-1 is the top model, and that there will be several smaller prosumer models. I think the PD170 and PDX-10 will be kept alive as long as they sells - and any replacement will be a HD model. Think of it. They have written off the development costs of these models. Thats makes it possible to cut margens and go into a pricewar. And a PC350 like HDV-camera maybe with only one CCD at a pricelevel around 2200 $ (price is pure speculation from my side) will turn the prosumer marked upside down. Sony very clearly stated that they really really want to lead the HDV marked. And I think that they will, if they go into a HDV-blitzkrig __________________ ---------------------------- 12c41 JOS. Svendsen

October 17th, 2004, 05:29 AM	#6
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	I see it another way. After seeing HDV, the pictures from any SD camera looks like ****. I have seen a HD demo, where a performance was recorded with two cameras. One SD and one HD. Then the performance started with one minute of SD, where the presenter talked about the high quality. The whole audience sort of small talked about that the quality was OK, but this HD thing was not too impressive. Then they switched to HD, and blew the socks of the audience, when they switched back to SD, the audience started booing. My point is that with a HDV, you do not need a second SD camera. If your business is primary SD, then use the SD-mode, and switch to HD when needed. If you invest in a SD-cam then your stuck. And FX-1 is not a bad SD-performer (better than PD-170) as I can understand from a japanese website. __________________ ---------------------------- 12c41 JOS. Svendsen

October 8th, 2004, 04:23 PM	#2
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	Boyd- I don't think sony will jump wholeheartedly into hdv because there's still too much uncertainty in the workflow - I'll bet they upgrade both the pd170 and pdx10 before its over- many of the big guys throw out improvements in their lesser products to test their acceptance , i.e. pc350- I think we'll see a progressive implementation in their dvcam line before they can cut and run- there's simply too many people working in dv . Of course another pathway might be that hdv is jumped on by all and we see alot of lower priced products hit the market, in which then dv would die a fast death. With dvd's and home projector resolutions pretty much in line with dv and with hdv still not having those easy solutions to exhibition , I think there's another 3 years before dv is dead in the water. Of course this is coming from someone who still loves his sony hi8 camera !One more thing - don't you think everyone on this forum is watching the fx1 thread ?? Even as simply a dv camera, it's cooler than swiss cheese !

October 8th, 2004, 05:29 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	You make a good case... but who knows? I have consistently been wrong in trying to second guess Sony. But I have to admit that I'm also getting the impression that the PDX-10 may be the end of the line. I wonder if it sells in sufficient quantities to make an update profitable? Also interesting that they have not offered any PDX-10 rebate like they have with the PD-170...

October 16th, 2004, 10:54 AM	#5
Harvey Shiner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 13	"that the FX-1 is capable of SD as well" - I recently saw this new camera at Photokina being demonstrated in HD attached to a 40inch Plasma Screen. I asked the rep there to change the setting over to SD and the picture looked awefull, just like one of the first VHS camcorder pictures. But in HD the image quality was awesome

October 17th, 2004, 06:03 AM	#7
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	<<<-- Originally posted by Jos Svendsen : My point is that with a HDV, you do not need a second SD camera. If your business is primary SD, then use the SD-mode, and switch to HD when needed. If you invest in a SD-cam then your stuck. -->>> Which is exactly the way that I'm starting to think... as long as the Sony will give broadcast quality SD in 16:9... Robin

October 17th, 2004, 09:24 AM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I think the best of both worlds will be if you can shoot in HDV mode on the FX-1, then output anamorphic 16:9 SD via firewire. This would give you HD source material for future use, but allow you to work with regular DV for current projects using your existing computer hardware and software. The FX-1 specs imply it's possible, and I and others have asked this question, but so far we don't seem to have a definitive answer.

October 17th, 2004, 12:52 PM	#9
Kurth Bousman Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: san miguel allende , gto , mexico Posts: 644	In a recent link provided by C Murphey, in the hdv forum , you can download a nice brochure , in where it states " High Performance Down Conversion Function " and I don't think this camera has usb2 so ... - well , that only means one thing to me. the link is www.schweizervideo.ch/pdf/so...duktinfo c1.pdf I have to admit Boyd , I'm seriously considering this camera just for this very reason. For less than twice the cost of a pdx10. I only wish Harvey would elaborate more. I have read a few contrary opinions here that state , on a forty inch or so plasma , the difference between the images of dv and hdv were not that great . Anyway , the immediate grail would be more satisfied by the ability to shoot in hdv and dub into dv or just output to a nle over the firewire direct. In that case this camera must be used as both camera and deck, which makes it even more valuable. Concerning the other sony upgrades , I think we'll see maybe a pd200 with an improved pdx10 chip and possibly a progressive function but who wants to wait ??Maybe I've convinced myself of the opposite position. Maybe this camera DOES kill the pdx10 and pd170. How I'd love a hdv model of the pc350. I'd buy it today !take care - Kurth