Probably more of a supply vs. demand.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a 270 yet. The 250 must still be selling well.

I've had a DSR250 for about 4 years. So far it's performed flawlessly. I don't use it as much as the DSR500, but there are certain situations where it is the best thing for the job. It is surprising that they are raising the price. I wonder if all the DVCAM stuff is going up.

All cameras have gone up 5% in the last month.

JVC had a deal last month on their JVC GY DV5000 which included a 16X lens and rebate-price 4600-4700K

It is now 5600K for the same camera. YIKES!

Even at $5600, that's still not a bad price for a 1/2" chip camera. Of course, you have to spend another $1500 or so for batteries and a charger, but still it's a lot less than a DSR370.

The 250 is a 1/3" chip camera, exact same opticals as the PD-150

The 250 was a decent deal at $4200 or whatever B&H used to price it at but not now. In buying a large camera you're making an investment. I would tend to go for broke and spend the extra on the Ikegami HL-DV7W Professional 2/3" 16:9 DVCAM Camcorder. It's currently $11,000 at B&H and is a significantly better deal than the Sony DSR570 (unless you can find a good deal on a 500). Sure you still have to spend another 5K in a lens and batteries but at least those are transferrable. Also you're getting a 2/3" 16:9 camera that will carry you over for the HD transition. Figure you can get at least 5 years out of the Ikegami whereas the dsr250-dsr390 will be obsolete in 3 years. I wouldn't spend any more than 5K on a 4:3 camcorder right now and that's pushing it.

I think you may be overly optimistic about the rapid acceptance of 16:9, but I hope you're right. I don't really give a damn about HD, but I would be one really happy camper if the world would convert to 16:9 overnight. Once you've shot 16:9 with a DSR500 or equivalent Ikegami, it's really difficult to shoot 4:3 again (but alas, I have to all the time).

Does anybody know of any camera (the same type we are talking about) that would use my large collections of Nikkor lenses?

I have several "BIG GUNS", too bad can't use them shooting video, yet.

Wouldn't hesitate paying $10K or more for a camera like that. Presume it would be 1/2" or 2/3" CCD of course.

It is possible to buy Nikon adapters which allow you to use the lenses on a 2/3" chip camera with the standard B4 mount, ie., all of them that I know about. Nikon used to sell two--one for their wider angle lenses and a different one for the longer lenses. Your equivalent focal length would be a lot different than what it says on the lens when using it with a 2/3" chip camera. I can't remember the exact amount, but more than double, I think.

Back when I shot 16mm I had a Nikon adapter for my CP16-R, and I used my 50mm micro Nikkor all the time for tabletop copystand work, and I used the 200mm once for a really long telephoto shot.
Last time I checked, which was several years ago, the Nikon adapters were several hundred bucks. Probably somebody else makes them too. I don't know of any for 1/2" chip cameras, but it's possible there is one.

Century Optics makes an adaptor for Nikon to Sony 1/2" mount. It costs around $800 IIRC. You have to call them to get any information.

You do understand that a film-camera lens is not optimized for video, right? That's why they don't use them on HD cameras. The lens are designed for a curved film plane.

That said, since using a 35mm lens on a 1/2" camera only uses the center of the field, they should give OK results on SD cameras.

Thanks, will check it out.

Now if I can find something to shoot with my 800/5.6 w/o being accused of a moral or "John Ashcroft" crime...

Just don't caught by the Justice Department aiming that long lens at a statue that has bare boobs. Ashcroft doesn't like that at all, y'know.

Velcro coming Off DSR250
 

Anybody has this trouble?

The velcro (for wireless transmitter) on my DSR-250 Sony batteries, BP-L40 or whatever, comes off after a few weeks. Especially if I leave the transmitter there when not in use. But w/o it still come off after a while.

Does anybody use any glue (beyond what's on the velcro) to stick to the battery? I am sure the smooth surface of the battery has something to do with it. I don't really want to put superglue or anything permanet on the item, but can't continue to spend money on velcro.

I have industrial velcro on my batteries (the stuff that is not at all soft, sort of like a stiff plastic brush) and it does not come off.

Have to clean the battery surfaces with alcohol before attaching the velcro.

Superglue is not appropriate for this type of application.

Industrial grade Velcro is a must. You can buy it in random lengths off 2-inch wide rolls at a large fabric and sewing supply store. Don't touch the sticky layer and put it down in the right place on the first try. If you peel it up just once, it'll never stick as well. I use lens cleaning solution to prepare the surface, as common rubbing alcohol has a wax additive that leaves a residue that interferes with the bonding. Make sure that all the old goop from past Velcro applications is removed. Press it down at all points thoroughly for several minutes. If you do it right, it'll stay put for years. When you remove the attached items, use a rotating motion, rather than a straight-up pull, to reduce
strain that might cause it to start peeling.

Steve McDonald

Thanks guys.

I was using industrial velcro, from sewing store, etc, but I would admit to pulling items off straight out instead of rotating it, and also sometimes "pushing it" a bit after initially putting the velcro down.

Oh, well, give those advise a try. Thanks again.

The Sony DSR 250
 

Have any of you shot any of your projects with the sony dsr 250?
Do you have a link of a preview, or a short that was shot with the DSR 250?

I know the DVX kicks major ass, but right now I can't afford to buy it or even rent it.

Any advice and or tricks with the DSR 250? Possible to do wonders with it.

Gidday Matt

Anything you shoot with a PD150 you can shoot on the 250(unless the larger size is going to upset things). Video quality is pretty close to being identical between the two cameras. I own both and find the 250 works out being easier to use because of the placement of controls (wb,gain etc) and the fact its a shoulder mount.

The 250 will shoot DV on 180min DVCAM tapes giving around 4.5 hours of taping! Not bad going and it will run for around 3 hours on the BPL40/IDX50S style batterys and for years on a BPL90 ;).

Also have a DSR-390, IMHO the biggest difference between the 250 and 390 is the manual lens which can be handy sometimes and the bigger CCD's fitted to the 390. The pics are a bit sharper compared to the 250 and it has the ability to handle a greater contrast range.

I've had my 250 for just under 2 years and use it for weddings, taping seminars and the odd bit of stringer work.

Thanks Jon,

I'm planning to film a short film with it, and hopefully I can do magic in the editing process :)

Are there filters for this camera? And how about if I want to shoot in widescreen?

The camera can use 58mm filters on the front and there are bayonet mounting wide angle and anamorphic lens around for it and the PD150.

I have had a play with the inbuilt electronic 16:9 and it does drop in resolution compared to 4:3. Probably better to either crop in post, put an anamorphic adaptor on the front or get hold of a PDX10(in order of cost!).

Better Audio - PD-170 or DSR-200?
 

Which camera has "better" audio using the standard Sony mic that came with it? PD-170 or an old DSR-200? I have a friend who says the DSR-200 has less noise and the PD-170 "distorts" more easily.

I ask because we need to "match" audio with the camera built in mikes on some shoots.

That's a tough one. Few of us have both those cameras. Weren't many 200's made before they upgraded to the A model. don't know if there was any diff between the two with respect to audio.

Since you have both of the cameras, a test seems in order. It is very likely that the cameras came with about the same microphone.

Most of us get around that issue by using one camera as sound master and the others just to furnish room tone and to act as a backup in case the prime camera has a problem.

Hi Mike,

It seems the 200 has a Stereo mic!!!

We shoot quite a few "club" concerts/performances. We record audio to DAT but mix in camera audio. Mix depends on which camera was near which insturment etc.

On the video side of things I do believe the 200 seems more prone to gain up noise than the 150. It does seem to look a bit better than a vx1000 but I thought they were using the same CCDs. The 200 might have a better lens though.

Our typical shoot arsenal includes PD150, PD170, DSR 200, VX1000, Panny DVX100 cameras and Tascam DA-P1 DAT deck. We haven't done straight up comparisions because the cameras are in different postiions and therefor subject to different lighting and audio circumstances.

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Seeman : Hi Mike,

It seems the 200 has a Stereo mic!!!

We shoot quite a few "club" concerts/performances. We record audio to DAT but mix in camera audio. Mix depends on which camera was near which insturment etc.

On the video side of things I do believe the 200 seems more prone to gain up noise than the 150. It does seem to look a bit better than a vx1000 but I thought they were using the same CCDs. The 200 might have a better lens though.
-------------------------
The 150 is a LOT better than the 200 in low light. Overall, the 150/170 will deliver a better picture even in good conditions, IMHO.
-------------------------
Our typical shoot arsenal includes PD150, PD170, DSR 200, VX1000, Panny DVX100 cameras and Tascam DA-P1 DAT deck. We haven't done straight up comparisions because the cameras are in different postiions and therefor subject to different lighting and audio circumstances. -->>>

Dsr250...dsr270?
 

Some minor Sony cam related Q.z, probably belonging in Area 51, but not only, necessarily.

Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of a DSR270? I don't mean to start a thread of mere wishful thinking, but I am awfully curious.
What was the timing of the PD150 and the 250 when they hit the market? At the same time, or one then the other, over a few months or something like that?
I've been getting into wedding videography, am itching for a second cam that will go nicely with my PD170 (which I like very much), have a use and desire for a shoulder cam, and would rather have all of the improvements that came with the 170 (over the 150). Does it seem like Sony might not bother with a 270?

Also, pricing...I was at the B&H website the other night, looking at their DSR250 packages, as well as their Pana DVC200 packages (my other interest, as far as semi-affordable shoulder cams go). Comparable packages of each of these two cameras cost about the same. How does that work? The DVC200 is a 1/2" cam with superior controls, and the 250 is a 1/3" cam with a fixed electronic Sony lens. Is this supply and demand at work? Or the difference between the two companies, Sony and Panasonic? Who knows?

Well, at any rate, I'll probably end up going with a second PD170 at some point, but if anyone has heard anything real about the prospect of the DSR270, I'm interested (but only if it's going to cost less than the dvc200!).

Shawn

Depends on the package. Some of the DSR250 packages at BH photo come with AB Hytron 50 batteries and a charger, thats about $1500 right there. Throw in an AB Ultralight for a hundred and sixty and maybe a Sony softbag and BINGO. $5800 for the kit. Not a bad price.
Make sure you're comparing EVERYTHING that comes in the package to insure a viable comparison. The Panny may seem like a great deal but if you've got to invest another thousand or 2 for power and charger, maybe it's not. I don't know, I'm just saying make sure they have equal things in the package.

Good Luck,
Don B

You're absolutely right, forgive my ignorance. It was these two packages that I was comparing, without knowing the differences between the components:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=233970&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=252465&is=REG

Hey Shawn,

The Panny kit looks like a good deal, the big differences in the kit are the batteries. TrimPacs with the Panny and Hytron50's with theSony. Of course the biggest difference is the chips. 1/2 vs. 1/3rd inch, so it's really up to you which you would feel more comfy with AND also remember that the Panny only uses full size tapes so you need a way to load to your NLE.

I don't think you can go wrong with either kit depending of course what your needs and comfort level are.
Hey, same money, different kits. Tough choice.
Good Luck in your decision,
Don B

Yes, and $1500 for a vtr, and...$500 for a battery charger?
It IS a good deal of a package, eh?
And a little further on down the road, for me.
A second PD170 is probably what will happen as an intermediary step.
A DSR270 would be stellar, though!

Is there a good resource that can help me understand the nature of things like all of the different batteries and lenses for these higher end cameras? That would obviously clear up things for me.

Just a bit of advice. Before you decide on the 250, rent a pro camera with a removable lens. It may be that you will really like the speed associated with the pro camera with its direct control of lens elements. Also, the difference in image processing and the 1/2 chips is significant as compared to the 1/3 inch chips in the 250. So much so that I elected to purchase a good used DSR-300 as my 'big' camera. In almost all respects, it beats, as it should, my PD-150.

Thanks to you both, Don and Mike, for your input. This won't be an immediate purchase, no matter what I go with; more like early next year. $6k-$8k is quite a lot of money for me at this point, and planning for the step up to a system of that cost must for me start now. Your last post, Mike, is rather dead on with what I think and feel. I DO want the speed and options of real lenses and sophistication in manual control, as well as the total improvement in picture quality. But I will definitely go to a display room somewhere (Safer Seas is in San Raphael now) and get some hands-on, as part of my thought process. Simply going with a second PD170 is probably the safest, most reasonable way to go, in the short term, as a green green professional shooting things for which the PD170 is plenty suitable. But reason isn't everything in this life. As far as the DSr250 goes, I thought that maybe THAT would be the intermediary solution, but it just isn't different enough in cost from the DVC for me to feel solid enough about it...
Ya da ya da ya!

Again, if there are handbooks or other resources on ENG cams and lenses, etc, I'm all eyes and ears.

Thanks!

Shawn

If you ever find yourself down around Vallejo, give me a call and maybe we can hook up and you can 'play' with my DSR-300.

I paid $3500 for the camera body, had the lens but could have bought one for around $500 and paid $1800 for a Sony LiON charger and one each of the small, medium and large LiON batteries. Of course then you have to consider a larger tripod and a carrying bag. PortaBrace for about $300 and I just bought an OConnor tripod and sticks off of ebay for $600 plus about $400 in repair parts (lost bits) and I have a great tripod system. Used my old big Bogen for years before I did this.

Thanks for the offer! I will surely take you up on that sometime. The dsr390 was one of my first loves (however long distant) in the world of shoulder cams. Takes me back to good ol' '03, when the bug had only just begun to bite hard. Ouch! Ouch!
:-]

DSR250 vs Canon XL2 vs DVX100
 

Hi guys,

I am in the process of buying a new camera but i don't know which one to buy between the mentioned cameras. Basically my footages are going to be local documentaries, interviews etc.

BTW. Do you have any reviews re the Sony DSP-250.

Thanks

Miklos, I can't offer much insight, but have you also considered the Panasonic DVC200? It's in a similar price bracket, shoulder mounted ENG camera, with 1/2" chips. I've heard good things about it.

Aaron

Hi Miklos. I've recently been looking into the DSR250 as well. I can't think of specific reviews that I've come across, but doing a search of the camera here is a good start, as you probably already have. I would then go over to DV.COM and do the same. There are quite a few 250 users over there who have, over the last few years, posted their thoughts about the cam onto threads just like this one. Bill KC has good and interesting things to say, as does jerrycaz. They are usually having to compare it to other relatively affordable shoulder cams, such as the DVC200 or the DV5000, despite it's final product being much more like the PD150/PD170, but good info for you even so...
The fact that you've listed it with these progressive scan cams (rather than the PD170, the existence of which you surely must already be aware) must be meaningful in some way? I am interested in the camera that Aaron mentioned, the DVC200, so part of my response is to also suggest it. If you have an $8k budget for a cam, cheap lens, batteries, and VTR, and that's about it! Or $6k for a dsr250 package. (Tripod and lights?). I guess you might want to think about whether you want a shoulder cam, or progressive scan? The PD170 is going at a pretty good price right now through B&H, btw, $2900 or so. Not a lot of user feedback on the XL2 as of yet. The DVX100A would certainly serve you well, 24p or not, unless of course you wanted a shoulder cam...

Shawn

DSR250 Batteries
 

Hi Guys,

Which batteries do you use with Sony DSR-250. I heard of Sony, IDX, Anton Bauer & Hawk Woods, but which are the best???


Thanks

That is sort of like asking which gum you like best. It is mainly a matter of personal taste.

I"ve always had very good luck with Sony batteries and I don't have to worry about compatibility at any level.

The best way to select a battery supplier is to first insure that they can supply the:

- battery chemistry you want
- capacity you want
- size you want
- weight you want
- mount you want

That the chargers are appropriate to your needs with regard to:

-charge speed
- # of batteries that are simultaneously charged (as opposed to how many can you hang on the charger)
- variety of input voltages to power the charger
- intelligence level of the charger
- can the charger also run the camera directly?

AntonBauer
 

I disagree the previous post. It is not a matter of personal taste, it's a matter of which battery is better. AntonBauer makes high quality bateries that are much better than the Sony ones. Of course you pay what you get for, so AntonBauer is not cheap.

Regards.

For anyone with a DSR250
 

OK, I don't own one but a friend of mine and I have been having a discussion abiut the audio setup on the DSR250. He says you can not seperate the channels like you can on the PD150/170-Channel 1/2 and Channel 1. I believe you can, otherwise what good do 3 XLR inputs do you. I realize the front XLR is generally going to be used for the on cam mic and the 2 rear XLRs for handheld or wireless with only the capability of having 2 channels but the point is he feels that the audio track can't be seperated. Channel 1 and Channel 2.

DSR250 gurus what say you?

(There's a small wager riding on this :-)

Thanks Don B.

EDIT to Question.
What I'm asking is, "is it a mechanical switch or a menu item".
Perhaps that will clear up the question.
Don B