...and (OIS ON) do a pan or tilt move at the worst zoom-point to see how severely the OIS worsens the effect.

Unless you'd prefer to put her to rest more peacefully ;(

Interesting reading about this vingetting problem.

I hope Paul they have a camera for you straight away. If I found a fault like this I would want an immediate swap. Anything else is unacceptable.

Phil > It's being returned for a full refund.

Dave > I'm afraid it's in there for good now, but the clip I uploaded was shot using the shot transition function of the camera with the curve set to linear. In effect if you drag the play head to the middle of the clip, it's at the mid zoom range.. etc etc. There's around a second handle each end of the clip. OIS was off, but to be honest I don't think it's anything to do with OIS, it looks like the lens could do with being 82mm instead of 77


regards

Paul.

Paul, I'm sorry to ask here, but I saw the picture of the (peli)case you have for the EX1. Could you tell which size is it ?
Sorry for your problems with the cam.

Thanks.

Hi Sebastien, no probs at all. The case is a Peli 1560. I think this is the smallest peli case that the EX1 with fit in due to it being quite wide and tall. I originally planned to place the camera in the case upright (handle up). The camera does fit that way up but the top of the case almost touched the top of the viewfinder and I was worried that pressure on the case during travel might damage the camera.

I've now shaped the foam to allow the camera to sit on it's side (grip down) which provides a lot more protection. As you can see it also leaves quite a bit of room for other bits and bobs you might want to put in there too.

Paul.

I read the specs of the camera, which is 20cm x 20cm x 40cm. The Pelicase you are using is less (17cm tall). But maybe the foam is compressed but it goes well ? or maybe the camcorder is less tall than specified in the doc ?

If you're right I'll buy one too.

Thanks.

Focus point affecting vignette problem?
 

Just wondering if anyone has tried a few different focus points while doing these vignetting tests. Maybe point the camera at a blank wall or ceiling, set the focus to infinity and zoom through the range, then do the same with focus set to about one meter.

No it's not, the internal dimensions of the 1560 are 51.7 x 39.2 x 22.9 cm.

regards

Paul.

Just think I'm still sleeping. Forget my previous post, I was looking at the 1520...
Maybe I'm too stressed waiting for the EX1 to arrive...

I've created a new thread for cases Sebastien as I'm sure it will be a popular topic and this thread would probably be the wrong place for it to happen.

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=780499

regards

Paul.

[ If anyone ends up with S/N 0400172 treat her with care, she's had a hard start in life :)[/QUOTE]

It'll probably end up in Indonesia! At least I know which one to look for :)

Display
 

Hello, when you yuse a 35mm adapter, is cheaper when you "take the distance of the object and set it on the focus ring".

Alessandro Zumstein

sorry . don't understand

Observation on Vignette Problem
 

I took a clip (X02_0039_01.MP4 - indoor tennis) that was posted on this forum and played it in slow motion with the VLC player. There are a couple of places where you can clearly see the problem in the upper left corner. It shows up most prominently when the camera begins or ends a fairly rapid pan movement. It appears that the OIS is on, and is creating the vignette by trying to compensate beyond the capability of the lens. That's my best guess with the limited amount of video available.

If anyone has tested their EX1 and found no problem, it would be nice if they posted here so we can see the magnitude of the vignette problem.

Possible, but can you provide the actual frame grabs. This type of info really doesn't mean much to anyone without supporting it.

May I please have the link to the tennis footage? Thanks.

It's gone...
His host shut him off.
http://www.bolanski.com/ex/home/ex1-test-shots-part-2/

Thanks Steven. I hope someone has permission and puts up a mirror...

*sigh*

This is exactly the reason why I offered to host it for him here on DV Info Net in the first place.

It's really too bad for everyone that he wouldn't take me up on it.

*shrug*

Thanks Chris,
I'm not sure why he was hesitant with your offer.

Since he lost his host, maybe he'll change his mind

I have posted two grabs of the tennis clip a couple of posts before.

Speculating further on the OIS thing, I must admit when I first read it has just ON/OFF settings (rather than the Standard, Soft, Hard etc) I thought Sony was compromising on this for whatever reason - now we can guess the 77mm lens might be just too tight for 1/2" chips...

If this is true, I wonder what Sony is going to do about it. And how long we'll be waiting!

But nobody ever answered my question: does it also show without the lens hood attached? If it's the lens hood vignetting, setting up the new moulding for a bigger one could be the simplest solution! Much simpler than designing a whole new, 82mm lens...

If this turns out to be the case, it could mean a VERY long wait, right? Surely they won't just tell us to deal with it?

There was a lot of controversy over the 25p capability of the V1 in PAL countries at this time last year and we were told to more or less deal with it.

I hope Sony really, truly fixes this to the best outcome.

There aren't enough users with cameras out there to test if there really is an actual problem.

Although I still don't have mine, I am hoping to have some free time on Monday to go to my dealer and really put their demo unit through a thorough test, including 35mm adaptor test.

Perhaps we could hear from all the EX1 owners out there if they have come across it or not...

Hi Piotr, I tried removing the lens hood assembly / matte box and it makes no difference, it's not that.

I don't know enough about the way lenses function to fully understand what this problem involves, my guess is that it's more than just making the lens barrel wider though. I would have thought that lens element placement / shape will be the primary control over presenting a correct image to the sensor block, either that or the distance between the lens and the sensor block itself. I guess this could be solved by enlarging the visible area presented to the sensors with optic placement, I can't imagine Sony would go back to fujinon and ask for a bigger lens though.

Adam Wilt mentions in his review that he was told by Sony that the vignetting in the camera he tested was caused by the auto-focus system, as that's the only real comment we've heard about the problem that comes directly from Sony it's more likely that this is still the issue, and we still don't know if there really is an issue. It would be great to to hear from other owners, but we only know of four cameras delivered so far.

regards

Paul.

I have yet to see anything posted other than Paul's camera that actually "really" shows a vignetting problem. I've seen nothing convincing
from the tennis footage and the guy that owns the camera has never mentioned a problem.
Several days ago I asked him when he gets a chance to run the test.
He said he would when he finds the time.

My guess is there might be a mechanical adjustment that might be out of spec within Paul's camera.
I can't imagine Sony would of let a problem like this released. This is a defect, or a misadjustment.
IMO, this problem is not across all EX1 cameras.

I tried to get screen grabs, but I can't go frame by frame in the VLC player. I couldn't get enough control to grab frames that would show the problem. I viewed the video in slow motion on a High Def LCD TV, and you can see the shadow creep in and out of the image as the camera accelerates and decelerates through a left to right pan. I'm hoping that someone will run some tests with their EX1 and post the tests here.

If this is a genuine case of the image rectangle being bigger than the image circle from which it's cut, then when OIS is turned on and the camera is moving this will make the situation worse - a lot worse. Could be worth going down the timeline of a rapidly moving camera shot and seeing if the vignette worsens.

tom.

Well, rest assure I will test for this the first day I get it (end of next week).
I will also rapidly pan the cam while viewing a wall with no other stuctures using OIS on, and off. I'll try it at four different focal lengths, from wide to tele.

I'm still not seeing anything convincing in the tennis footage. Also, the few that do own the camera on this forum, other than paul, have not mentioned any issues.

grab
 

i see it on the tennis footages, upper left and right corner:

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/F...cty=US&lang=en

I have checked the fastest, whip pans of the tennis footage, and indeed there is what can be considered similar to Paul's findings, in the upper left corner of the screen - see my post here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....6&postcount=51

If anything, it does appear there is some vignetting in Laurent's example. Since the camera was not really moving during this shot, it would of been nice if he actually performed some simple tests for us.

I'm not sure why he would not. If I owned the camera, I'd surely want to know its limitations.

Well, we'll know soon for sure.

Hmmmm.....
Maybe we have an issue with these cams that's more than just a couple.
I'm now concerned. Hopefully they can be fixed. I find it VERY hard to believe that a camera that cost almost $7,000.00 USD would have this issue. Heck, I've seen camcorders that cost $300 not have this issue.


Check it out..
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthrea...t=11627&page=2

It appears from one of the original frame grab posts from a pre-production models is showing some vignetting in the top left corner.... hmmmm.
http://www.dvinfo.net/media/xdcamex/...7;20720p25.tix

Well thats not going to happen. I have my reasons for it.

And to all people mirroring my files, I wold appreciate if you ask me first but the answer will probably be, no please don't.

But to make you happier again I have put up some Vignette test shots. And I have new hosting, so get them while they last. This is supposed to be a free traffic host again but we will have to see about that since the demand for the other files was a bit crazy.

The old files may be online soon if I have time to do it. The Tennis footage will not be online again and there is a reason for it to.

ex.bolanski.com

Andreas - I had a look at the 1080p-version and I cannot see any problems. If there are any they are definately acceptable to me! Do you know if this was the same camera that you used shooting the tennis footage? Someone reported a few frames with vignetting suggesting that it might be related to the OIS.

/ola

Heck, looks like you are right! It shows exactly the same flaw!

Yes, then again, it was the pre-production cam.
Looking at Andreas vignette test files posted today, I do not see any issues.
It would of also been nice if there tests files done the same way while the camera was panned (Aperture wide open, OIS on). Also, I'm not sure where the aperture was set during his tests.

Having said that, he owns the cameras and says he's not seeing an issue.
That's good enough for me. I will do some tests with my cam next week and post them here.

(I posted this on the footage thread but thought it was more appropriate for this thread instead, so pardon the double posting)

About 4 to 5 seconds into Andreas' 1080p25 clip there is a very slight darkening in the upper left corner. Likewise in the 720 clip (which zooms out rather than in) there is the same slight darkening toward the wide side.

Both of these seem to happen at the same focal length on the lens. It seems to be a less severe version of what Paul Joy is describing, in that it does not happen at either zoom extreme, but at a point in the middle, close to the wide side.

This slight darkening, combined with OIS and different aperture or focus settings could be what's cousing the more extreme cases.

What's happening on Andreas' camera is perfectly acceptable to me, and I won't cancel my order over it. On a film camera this would be considered within spec (I've seen much worse than that make it to the big screen). But if it got much more extreme than that I would start to get concerned.

Are people seeing the vignette problem when using OIS while on a tripod?

With my Z1, I get much better footage when the OIS is turned off while on a tripod. In fact the manual states to turn of OIS while on a tripod.

Has anyone tried shooting without the OIS and seeing if the problem still exists?

Daniel Weber

I don't know what camera this was but I can check. When I look at it on a computer screen I don't see it but when I look at it via HD-SDI on our 24" Jvc monitor I think there might be something there.

It's really hard to tell but we are quite happy with the cameras and are going to use them in education so we don't see this as a problem for us.