But if it were that, wouldn't he see the vignette as a constant presence whether he's moving the camera or not?

In this case, since the vignette is visible, the OIS shifts this around.

I've heard of no complaints with vignetting at full wide and max aperture f1.9
The vignetting issue mainly affects 8-25mm range with aperture settings wider than f5.6.
This is known issue that affect some (apparently quite a few) of these cameras.
My replacement camera also has the issue, although, not as bad as my first.
Cameras that have this issue can watch the vignette shift around with OIS on.

Paul, your camera is probaly VERY close to my current camera.
I'm not sure why Sony is claiming your camera is OK, when we all know there are cameras that do not have this issue at all.

I'd like to know the specfics on how they are making this adjustment.

Oh. I understood his post to mean that he saw no vignette until he moved the camera.

I've contacted one of the managers at Sony UK who I met through the video forum in London to find out what he thinks about it. I'll hold out from getting too rattled about it until I've had a chance to talk it through with him first.

My camera only suffers very very slightly with OIS off, and I'm happy with those shots. But I've started using my shoulder rig a lot lately and like to use OIS. If I handle the camera very gently I can get away with it, but any sudden movement brings the darkened corners crashing into the shot.

Watch this space!

Paul,
OIS is usually recommended to be turned off on most cameras when the operator is panning/tilting while on a tripod or movement via steadicam, dolly, etc., due to the OIS fighting the intended movement of the camera operator - which I don't see as as being any different from being rigged on your shoulder unless you are being completely static.

But a problem is a problem and I'd put it back on Sony to fix it.

Just two cents worth - good luck,
Lonnie

Pretty much correct, I can see it with OIS off, but it's so slight that it's not a big problem. With OIS on though, the fact that the effect has motion makes it much more apparent.

Look at this clip, http://www.olikai.com/shake.mov it's a very wobbly shot, way too wobbly to use but you can see the effect on the right side of the frame as the camera wobbles.

Paul, I'd like to see this same test with the OIS off. Mainly between 8-25mm.
When you say slight, I'm wondering if mine's worse.

The first frame of that clip is a pretty good indication off how it looks with OIS off as the stabiliser isn't having any effect at that point. All you can see is some slight graduation in the top right corner.

Paul,
my apologies...
Here I am chiming in about reducing intentional operator movement with the OIS activated, blah blah blah and then I saw ois-vignette-1.mov:

Don't short change your self, something is amiss with your camera, send it back for a new one.

Lonnie

Yeah, that's pretty awful. I wouldn't accept that either...

Those of you who sent in their cameras - how long did it take to have it repaired? My camera is away for a week now and I´ve not heard anything about it yet. I´ve sold all my old cameras on ebay and I´m now camera-less...
I called Sony Service today and they did not know anything about the EX1´s status. They did not even know where exactly my camera is! They only know that it arrived last week. I have to say that I´m getting a little impatient now.

thanks and regards,
Gerald

Hi
They had mine 13 days door to door.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck!
Wow - thats pretty long!!!
Looks like I will have to rent a camera for the next job :-(

Did the test today and I find I have some vignetting. Really very slight in top right corner. Mine was bought late but was an early model so should I insist on an exchange from B&H or just let SONY rebuild it? Have there been any modifications made that make it better to try for a current camera?

Michael,
my camera is a very current camera and still has the same problem...

Yes, but does anyone think a Sony rebuild is as good as or better than taking a chance on a new one?

It seems Sony will make that decision and make it honestly.

As noted in another thread I had an issue with zoom control (slow zoom speeds stepping rather than smooth). Sony told me they first tried to "upgrade" the lens and weren't happy with the results so they send me a new camera.

The vignette issue apparently just involves a re-calibration and my hunch is that's accessed from the mysterious front lens port on the camera. See "Cover of the lens control block" on diagram on page 15 of the manual.

If you have the Vignette issue do send in the camera. I do think a few here have said they were not happy with the results when they got the camera bank and I think in those cases Sony may have then replaced the camera.

Craig,
I'm sure you've heard I sent my first one back and it came back the same (maybe a tad worse).

There was NO information regarding they had an issue adjusting my camera.

My replacement camera is better, but does show vignetting between 8-25mm in the top two corners with OIS off.

I'm thinking about contacting Sony again regarding this issue.
Did Sony replace the camera, or was it done through your dealer?

I'm done bothering my dealer regarding this issue. They worked hard at getting me a replacement camera. I'm going to contact Sony regarding this issue with my replacement camera.

Sony, San Jose replaced it.

When I first called Sony tech support they said to send them the camera rather than bring it back to my dealer.

A few days after sending it I called for an update. I strongly recommend calling for an update rather than simply waiting for the camera to come back.

Just my opinion but I think it's good to let them know you're looking over their shoulder even if it's just by phone.

OK, so I spotted it today - almost four weeks after I had decided "it's not obvious, so even if it's there I'm not gonna look for it", I saw the vignetting in the upper right corner, during a rather fast pan to the right, with OIS on.

I guess all of them have it to some degree, under specific circumstances.

I will certainly be sending mine to Prime Support, but only after all the dust settles down. I have 2 years for that - and before the warranty end, I'd be getting an overhaul, anyway.

Who knows, maybe by then, Sony will have devised some really effective remedies to the most annoying flaws, like:

- the vignetting, however small and unobtrusive it is on a particular unit
- the stupid ND filter switch
- the silly aperture open-up at switching to auto iris, which is there for 1-2 frames only but annoys me more than the CMOS-inherent, partial flashes
- the "abrupt highlights clipping" problem

If they can't fix in existing cameras, I will insist for replacement then. Makes much more sense to me than having it replaced now, with another unit that might turn out worse in some aspects.

None of the above is a show-stopper to me for a while, yet all of them are below the standards I'd expect from a CineAlta badged, professional machine.

I believe the worse cameras are the ones showing the vignetting with OIS off.

My cameras gone to Sony today to be looked at by one of their technicians. I have to say that the product manager who contacted me about the issues has been very helpful indeed.

Paul.

Paul,
you really can be lucky.
Sony promised me that the repair would be done in 3-4 days before I sent the camera to them.
As it still did not arrive after one week I called them and they did not know anything about my camera but promised to call me back with more info.
As I did not hear from them for another 24 hours I called again. Again they promised to find out whats going on and swore they would call me back asap. That was 36 hours ago. I will call again tomorrow and won´t be very polite this time... I bought this camera to earn money with it and now will have to rent a camera for my jobs. Doesn´t Prime Support promise that one would get a replacement camera while your´s is at repair?
I´m pretty p*s*ed at the moment... :-(

regards,
Gerald

When I was dealing with Sony San Jose,CA USA they told me they had a backlog. I wonder if this might be the case given certain issues.

They actually put me on hold on the phone while they checked. When they finally determined they would replace the camera that did take a few more days because they said it would take time to get the OK to do that.

I would keep after them though. Even if it's a report that they haven't gotten to your camera yet (as they did when I first called them) would at least give you something.

Sony was very good at answering my questions on the phone.

Thanks Craig,
I´m in Europe and my camera was sent to France. Looks like they are working differently over here :-(
The only information I could get so far was that the camera arrived at the repair center last tuesday - more than a week ago... They also put me on hold at the first call only to tell me that they could not find out anything, but assured me to call me back asap with more info.

regards,
Gerald

As my camera still is not repaired, Sony now sent me a rental camera.
This camera has a massive problem with back focus and a vignetting issue on 3 corners. The camera they sent me now is brand new and its serial# starts with 40... like mine. I can´t believe that they are still sending out cameras with quality problems... I think if they return my camera and it still has issues I might ask for a refund and return the whole mess.

I´m glad I did not sell all my old SD cameras yet.

regards,
a frustrated Gerald

That's terrible! back focus? how can the back focus be out?! That's a terrible loan camera. Have you complained. They should send you a better one out ASAP.

I am sorry you are having such bad luck. I feel embarrassed that the two I have exhibit no problems whatsoever. Keep faith, it will be worth it in the end. I promise!

I wish I could agree Phil but my experience this week has confirmed my suspicion that Sony are turning a blind eye to this problem. In my opinion they have decided that centering the lens limits it to a degree so will perform that fix, but any questions about remaining light fall off are met with "it's normal".

After prime support said that the problems on my camera were not due to lens alignment and so are "normal" I spoke to one of the product managers who I met at the video forum show. Upon seeing my footage he agreed that the camera needed to be looked at and arranged for it to be picked up the next day by courier.

After receiving the camera and having technicians check it out they said that they could not see any problems at all and that the lens on my camera had previously been re-aligned in their lab prior to being sent to the dealer, so there was nothing further they could do.

I can understand them not being able to do anything further if it's a design issue, but to say that they cannot see the problem is very frustrating.

I got the camera back the next day so I'm very happy with the speedy way they looked into it, it's just a shame that they will not admit that there is still a problem with the camera. If this is a limitation of the lens then I can live with it, but in essence I'm being told that I'm imagining the problem, make up your own mind...

http://www.olikai.com/shake.mov
http://www.olikai.com/ois.mov


Paul.

Phil,
I haven´t complained yet, but I definitely will. When I zoom in and focus and zoom out again the picture looks very blurry, especially when the aperture is wider open. My camera did not show this problem. I will try again with a test chart this afternoon.
I always seem to have bad luck with camera purchases - all the cameras I bought in the past 15 years spent weeks at the repair shops from Sony after purchase...

Wow..
Sony will have to step and and address these issues.

For a camera that cost $7,000.00 USD, we should not be stuck with defective cameras. If they can not fix it, they need to replace it.

The reality of this all is that Sony has all of us by the the collar with their free 8 gb card deadline. If there was no deadline or no free 8 gb offer I would most likely wait till the end of summer and hopefulyy see if Sony work out the kinks of this camera but most of us don't want to miss out on the free card offer. Sony was smart to put that offer in place too. It's a shame that such a fantastic camera is having such issues. It may even be that they are not able to pack all these features in this size camera and may need to do a design overhaul because from the way that everyone is responding, they are not getting their cameras back completly fixed after they send them to Sony.

Pretty depressing
 

As someone who was contemplating purchasing this camera, the fact that the vignetting is still a problem is pretty depressing. I'm put-off about laying out hard earned money for something known to have a defect.

What are the odds that they fix this in the next month or two? I know the images are stunning, but don't think I could knowingly buy something with a major defect like this.

I'm somewhat concerned also. Between myself and where I work three EX1s went to Sony AU for adjustment and none of them came back completely fixed. My other thought is that if the adjustment is that critical how is it going to hold up over years of use, if the cameras need constant re-alignment who will bear the cost.

The situation is further complicated by us not dealing directly with Sony. Sony AU is not Sony Japan, understandably Sony AU might get a bit unhappy if they've got to keep performing lens alignments for free just to keep us happy and if there is an ongoing issue, the more cameras sold the bigger the headache becomes.

Most of us have been assuming that this is just a minor vignette that's only visible under certain conditions and even then it only affects a small part of the frame that's pretty much outside picture essential anyway. I'm not so certain about this. Under a wider set of conditions the vignette seems to become less obvious (less in focus) but covers a wider part of the frame.
I do know that many lenses are not perfect, almost all have some falloff however that's a product of the optical design and/or cost considerations. The difference is it's gradual from the centre to the edge of the frame and it's symetrical and hence visually less objectionable. I'd also mention that with HD almost every pixel is visible on TVs and monitors, there's no overscan to hide anything.

The EX1 has the best lens any manufacturer has 'fixed' into a camera body. Camera manufacturers probably aren't used to having to wrangle lens issues, take the next step up from the EX1 in the XDCAM lineup and the optics is someone else's problem. If you've got a lens problem with your F350 you can get the lens serviced by a dedicated lens technician. Perhaps this is also part of the reason why Sony are having so much trouble nailing this issue.

For myself and the three EX1s I'm responsible for I'm waiting until the firmware update to send the cameras back again. I'm pretty lucky though, I'm a very short drive from my dealer and he's an equally short drive from Sony headquarters. Not everyone down here is so lucky. Some are looking at significant freight costs and delays in simply getting the camera to and fro Sony. I know at least one EX1 owner who is waiting for a real fix from Sony before spending $600 just in freight and insurance costs to get his camera fixed.

I really think this issue comes down to real-world life, in that all the thousands of hours of pre and prototype testing in can never bring to light every production variation. If time was no object then of course the above statement isn't correct, but then if that was so we'd still be shooting on VHS.

It's the reason why you should never buy a new car in the first 6 months of its production run, why program writers have beta testers, why the early PD170s were beset with an audio glitch and why the DVX100 was very quickly modified into the much better A model, and the XL1 went to the small s.

Early adopters will always pay the price I'm afraid. It's the law of the land.

tom.

I endorse Tom's remarks wholeheartedly. I have as far as I know a good camera. Have been trying it out the last few days and find it gives amazing quality.

I have bought faulty goods all my life Cars/Electronics/ Tropicana orange juice packs- everything. I've bought 8mm/16mm/VHS/SVHS/DV/BetaSP/BetaSX/Digibeta/HDCAM - all equipment usually has foibles but I managed to make money out of them. (and enjoy film making). The trick is to harness the good things in equipment and build on them.

This camera for ordinary typical recording is great. Before testing I switched of all the unimportant features auto anything/OIS/focus/Iris etc. (I have never used auto Iris/focus on any camera apart from initial setting and then usually over ride its decision). I have used Doug Jensen's Vortex Media settings and WOW what a camera. For my applications - environment/sea/plants etc the quality is first class. I will concede that full telephoto shots when shooting a subject that may not have too much detail around it can highlight the portholing effect. But then I have a £10,000 HD broadcast lens that equally looks a bit iffy at times.

It is easy to lose sight of what a camera is for - making movies. Phil Bloom creates beautiful pictures with his EX1. Doug Jensen has produced a DVD of excellent quality mostly shot on the EX1. Sony will have to fix any truly faulty cameras and I am sure they will to maintain their reputation. This camera is a very important milestone in video production and at this price it is a bargain. Read Adam Wilt's review at www.provideocoalition.com for a realistic take on this camera.

Go for it Boys.

Paul you have to speak to Phil Myers at Sony, i am assuming he is the guy you spoke to before. You have to get the camera replaced!

Yes, Phil was the guy who arranged to have the camera looked at last week. He was really helpful, but if the technicians say they can't see any problems then there's not much more I can do.

Having read some of the other stories here, I kind of feel like pushing for a replacement could result in an even worse camera so it's a hard to know what to do.

Paul,

I have two perfect camera. Get it changed.

Phil

Mine is also fine, you can always use at as a benchmark for getting a good one if need be.

I'm deciding right now if returning my camera will make it better. How much vignetting is acceptable? Should there absolutely none. I have vignetting at longish length in the top right hand corner but it is not as bad as the example I saw posted here. I don't want to complain about a little issue to end up with a bigger one.