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-   -   XDCAM EX1 on the road blog (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/109039-xdcam-ex1-road-blog.html)

Eric Pascarelli December 10th, 2007 01:19 AM

Mike,

There is no pulldown the EX1 for 24p in the HQ mode, recorded to SxS card (the mode you most certainly would want to use if you are outputting to film).

The camera records a pure 24 frames (actually 23.976, but let's not get nitpicky) per second to the card - no pulldown.

"Advanced" or "standard" would only apply to a camera that was trying to shoehorn 24p into an existing 29.97 fps video format, such as DV tape.

Phil Bloom December 10th, 2007 02:10 AM

My bandwith is getting used up again! My site will be down again in a couple of days at this rate! Just to warn anyone if they see it disappears again!

Gabriel Florit December 10th, 2007 03:03 AM

Hey Phil,

Thanks for donating your time and effort in sharing all your XDCAMEX experiences with us. It's definitely useful - I've been reading your blog avidly and will be buying the camera (and some of the lenses you suggested) next year.

Cheers!

ps. I live in Alaska, my parents live in Lochcarron, close to the Isle of Skye. How close is that to the Protestant's family's place?

Mike Marriage December 10th, 2007 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 789975)
Knit-picking is never a good idea on this site.

The minimal difference between 1080p and 2K is so utterly inconsequential that they may as well be synonymous terms, and for all practical purposes they are, as far as we're concerned here. Hope this helps,

I actually think it is important to use the correct terminology. Small differences can lead to very large, costly mistakes. I've seen a whole film have to be re-telecined because of a mix up with 24 fps and 25 fps. 2K is technically different to 1920x1080 and should always be denoted as such even if the visual difference is inconsequential.

In this circumstance it might not matter but there are plenty of occasions when it will.

Eric Pascarelli December 10th, 2007 09:25 AM

Agreed - there is a negligible quality difference between HD and 2k, and no difference in terms of the discussion here.

But a big difference between the two standards which can lead to costly mistakes (when digitizing film for example) is aspect ratio. 2k is considered to be a 1.33 aspect ratio format (2048x1536) whereas 1920 is, of course, 1.78.

But let's not get too far off-topic.

Chris Hurd December 10th, 2007 09:47 AM

For Mike and Eric -- excellent points all around; thanks. Back we go to Phil's original topic. Much appreciated,

Mike Barber December 10th, 2007 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli (Post 789982)
Mike,

There is no pulldown the EX1 for 24p in the HQ mode, recorded to SxS card (the mode you most certainly would want to use if you are outputting to film).

The camera records a pure 24 frames (actually 23.976, but let's not get nitpicky) per second to the card - no pulldown.

"Advanced" or "standard" would only apply to a camera that was trying to shoehorn 24p into an existing 29.97 fps video format, such as DV tape.

Great! That's what I was hoping to hear. Many thanks.

Sami Sanpakkila December 10th, 2007 04:33 PM

Hi,

I have been really blown away by the short Piccadilly Furs that you shot Phil. After seeing this I had absolutely no doubts about my order of both the EX1 and the 35mm adapter :) So thank you!

Im used to working on film and haven't done much color correction (except sitting next to a guy and telling him what I want) in telecine transfers. So I know what I want things to look like. But my understanding is very limited in how to acchieve it in the digital world.

What Im interested in is how do you get the highligts, the overexposed parts to look so good? Is it just Magic Bullet or what?

I noticed that on only one shot in Piccadilly Furs you can see the kind of "bad overexposure" you see so much on tv and digital video. It's the shot just before the middle where Lou goes "Severin, severin awaits you there" that has the afro-american guy reading papers and on the background you see a blonde haired woman in a white fluffy coat. This to me has that video quality overexposed feeling.

I exported a still image to Photoshop and the rgb values are 235,235,235. Cause I first thought that maybe the idea is not to use extreme whites, more like values 234 and so on. But looking at every other overexposed images in Piccadilly Furs I see they also have values of 235,235,235 and they look amazing.

Sorry for the long post and if this seems very obvious to people. Im really keen on learning the art and would really appreaciate answers from anyone.

Thanks!!

Sami

Phil Bloom December 10th, 2007 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel Florit (Post 790008)
Hey Phil,

Thanks for donating your time and effort in sharing all your XDCAMEX experiences with us. It's definitely useful - I've been reading your blog avidly and will be buying the camera (and some of the lenses you suggested) next year.

Cheers!

ps. I live in Alaska, my parents live in Lochcarron, close to the Isle of Skye. How close is that to the Protestant's family's place?

Not that far I don't think. My bandwidth has gone again! So apologies for the downtime. It will be five days before I am allowed to put it up again.

Phil Bloom December 10th, 2007 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sami Sanpakkila (Post 790315)
Hi,

I have been really blown away by the short Piccadilly Furs that you shot Phil. After seeing this I had absolutely no doubts about my order of both the EX1 and the 35mm adapter :) So thank you!

Im used to working on film and haven't done much color correction (except sitting next to a guy and telling him what I want) in telecine transfers. So I know what I want things to look like. But my understanding is very limited in how to acchieve it in the digital world.

What Im interested in is how do you get the highligts, the overexposed parts to look so good? Is it just Magic Bullet or what?

I noticed that on only one shot in Piccadilly Furs you can see the kind of "bad overexposure" you see so much on tv and digital video. It's the shot just before the middle where Lou goes "Severin, severin awaits you there" that has the afro-american guy reading papers and on the background you see a blonde haired woman in a white fluffy coat. This to me has that video quality overexposed feeling.

I exported a still image to Photoshop and the rgb values are 235,235,235. Cause I first thought that maybe the idea is not to use extreme whites, more like values 234 and so on. But looking at every other overexposed images in Piccadilly Furs I see they also have values of 235,235,235 and they look amazing.

Sorry for the long post and if this seems very obvious to people. Im really keen on learning the art and would really appreaciate answers from anyone.

Thanks!!

Sami

Not so sure about all the technical details. To be honest what I do is very untechnical. I see an image, I shoot it and make it look as good to my eye in the viewfinder/ lcd as I can. A lot of it is second nature, but this was my first play with the ex1 so I had no idea how it would turn out. Magic Bullet looks helps a lot with perfecting the look.

I tend to always underexpose by half a stop. That gives me more options in post.

Paul Nevison December 10th, 2007 07:54 PM

protestant story grade?
 
Hey Phil,

first of all your work is great, obviously great shots, but also great sense of timing and pace to your cuts.

I had a question regarding the grade on the protestant story. did you add a blur gradient/vingette around some of the shots to 'fake" shallow DOF? I recall you saying you shot it without your 35mm adapter...so wondered if this was how you generated it in post to direct attention in the frame.

I hope Sony and Letus are hooking you up....your work is a strong case for what can be achieved when mixing talent with their products.

hope your site is back online again soon....your blog is very interesting reading.

Phil Bloom December 11th, 2007 06:24 PM

Cheers Paul

Nothing from Sony! Letus have been brilliant with customer service with me when I broke my extreme. Got a replacement to me within two days! I now have a backup one, so have two!

I used swing/ tilt and edge focus in magic bullet to create the mock shallow DOF. A very very effective tool.

Thanks also for kind comments, I often get comments about the shots but it's rare to get comments on the editing, something which is often overlooked. It is as much my passion as shooting.

My blog isn't updated but got it back up!

Phil Bloom December 14th, 2007 06:08 PM

New short now online!
 
http://www.philipbloom.co.uk/Philip_...14_Blog_5.html

You can see it as part of my blog. It's called "Kew Gardens in Winter"

Shot using the EX1 and Letus Extreme with loads of lenses!

Michael Rehfield December 14th, 2007 06:36 PM

Kew Gardens
 
Inspiring stuff, Philip, as I've come to expect. Can't wait for more.

Phil Bloom December 14th, 2007 07:15 PM

Thank you. I love going out and just filming these little things. It's all in my own time but the end results make it worthwhile and London has so many rich places to film.

Bill Ward December 14th, 2007 08:41 PM

Phil: In a couple of shots, there is a very attractive circular darkening around the outside edge of the image...I'm thinking of the low-angle pan across the silver plants in particular.

Was this the dreaded vignetting, or a deliberate postproduction effect? I noticed it on several other images, almost like a circular grad filter.

Do you ever get releases from any of the folks who appear, or do these private films never get released?

Lovely choices of music on all your work!

Mark OConnell December 14th, 2007 10:43 PM

Phillip

Really great of you to take the time to post your findings and the shorts. I thank you for the invaluable insights. Had a couple of questions: in the Picadilly clip, in the portraits, the eyes are sharp but the rest of the face soft. What's going on there? Also was wondering if you've gotten the EX 1 to work with your Brevis yet?

thanks again, hope to see more-

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 03:18 AM

Bill: The vignette is done is post. I don't get releases as these are not for broadcast.

Mark: It's swing/ tilt effect on the faces. It was actually done in post as I waiting for my actual swing tilt lens, which has now arrived so I can do it for real.

Tunde Anjorin December 15th, 2007 03:47 AM

Phil that video was nothing short of amazing.....Thank you for posting it!!!!!!!!!!!

Raymond Schlogel December 15th, 2007 04:17 AM

Another great one in every regard. I've been told mine will be here next week, hopefully EARLY next week.

Obviously your busy Phil but when ya have a mo would be ever grateful if you could get to my email. Thanks! =)

- Ray

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 06:25 AM

sorry Raymond. Completely forgot to reply. Normally I reply straight away. Think I was shooting when it came through.

Tell me what you want to know and I will do my best in giving advice!

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 06:35 AM

better version in 720p now linked on the blog. Less compression

Steve Cahill December 15th, 2007 07:30 AM

Phil- have you decided upon a format with the EX that you find gives you the "BEST" settings, such as shooting in 720 or 1080 or 25fps vers 60P that you can share.

Mark Williams December 15th, 2007 08:59 AM

Phil,

Love your videos on your blog. I am beginning to really warm up to the EX-1. However, one doubt still exists and that is how the HQ mode 35mbs VR will hold up with extreme motion. Can you post any fast moving water scenes (rivers, fountains, ocean, birds in flight). Your efforts are much appreciated.

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 11:59 AM

there is some fast moving stuff in my short film using the ex1 clean. You can see it here http://aerialsfilm.com/bloom/protestantsnewgrade720.mp4

it's only rivers and stuff. I really have had no problems with the codec. Also check out this: http://www.philipbloom.co.uk/Philip_..._Shorts.html#0

It's a short of a sunset in Cornwall. It is a shame you can't see a 1080p version of this. It's quite stunning. The most beautiful thing i have shot. It was shot on the big XDCAM HD F350 but it's the same codec, albeit CCD but slightly lower resolution. The MP4 compression does it no favours and it is slightly blocky. I must get a 720p done for you to see. The XDCAM code is so impressive. I shot all my HD stuff with it now, with HDV as B camera. I don't miss DVCPro hd. I don't miss the huge file sizes, i don't miss the tiny P2 card capacity and I don't miss the softer lower quality images.

edit: I will be posting a 720p version of Sunset so can see how the XDCAM codec deals with fast moving stuff. It will be up with the half hour.

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Cahill (Post 792914)
Phil- have you decided upon a format with the EX that you find gives you the "BEST" settings, such as shooting in 720 or 1080 or 25fps vers 60P that you can share.

Always 1080p. Compared to that the 720 pales. I always shoot 25fps as its the only option in 1080p and I hate interlace. It looks cheap!

Piotr Wozniacki December 15th, 2007 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom (Post 792988)
Always 1080p. Compared to that the 720 pales. I always shoot 25fps as its the only option in 1080p and I hate interlace. It looks cheap!

I agree with you 1080/25p sounds like the best option for us, PAL users. But... the BD specs don't support 25p! What is your idea of the best delivery method? Thanscoding in post to the closest thing - 1080/24p - doesn't make much sense with the EX1, as it can shoot this format in the first place!

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 12:52 PM

Hi Piotr

My main aim is for UK broadcast and that is 25p. Blu ray delivery is not at the top of my list, especially since I still can't burn actually projects for use in domestic players with my mac pro yet.

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 01:04 PM

check out http://aerialsfilm.com/bloom/sunset1080.divx in about half an hour it should be uploaded. shot on the f350 but it shows how well the codec can handle fast moving water.

thanks to maxim again for hosting. i owe you a beer!

Grigory Volovich December 15th, 2007 01:32 PM

Phil,
kew whole.mp4 excellent film....REALLY.
Soundtrack.Who is the author?

Piotr Wozniacki December 15th, 2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom (Post 793008)
Hi Piotr

My main aim is for UK broadcast and that is 25p. Blu ray delivery is not at the top of my list, especially since I still can't burn actually projects for use in domestic players with my mac pro yet.

Phil, first of all thank you again for the examples of excelent videography you're providing!

But back to the 25p problem: I understand that for broadcast in a PAL country, there is no better choice. However, being close to the industry, you probably heard some comments about the lack of 25p support in both HD delivery formats, the BD and HD DVD. Sony is touting BD which doesn't support 25p, but at the same time releases new cameras recording solely in 25p (like the Z7E) - I believe people must be commenting on this nonsense?!!

I've been shooting 100% of my stuff in 25p on my V1E, but when started to burn BDs recently, I'm encoding to 24p... With the EX1, I'll have a dillema:

- shoot in 24p, or
- shoot in 25p for better intercutting with the V1E, which I'm keeping as the B camera. Would appreciate any advice!

Steve Madsen December 15th, 2007 02:25 PM

Phil...nice work, very motivating. When you're wanting to shoot random people on the street, do you merely ask them? They certainly add to your work. Do you have any "release" issues? Thanks.

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 04:09 PM

the music is from king kong by James newton Howard.

Releases are interesting. With the skating a sign is put up saying there is filming going on and that constitutes a release. But it isn't for broadcast so it doesn't matter

Phil Bloom December 15th, 2007 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki (Post 793030)
Phil, first of all thank you again for the examples of excelent videography you're providing!

But back to the 25p problem: I understand that for broadcast in a PAL country, there is no better choice. However, being close to the industry, you probably heard some comments about the lack of 25p support in both HD delivery formats, the BD and HD DVD. Sony is touting BD not supporting 25p, and releases new cameras recording solely in 25p (like the Z7E) - I believe people must be commenting on this nonsense?!!

I've been shooting 100% of my stuff in 25p on my V1E, but when started to burn BDs recently, I'm encoding to 24p... With the EX1, I'll have a dillema:

- shoot in 24p, or
- shoot in 25p for better intercutting with the V1E, which I'm keeping as the B camera. Would appreciate any advice!

Hi Piotr

BD and HD dvd is such a minor consideration right now for broadcasters. All they care about is having it delivered on HDCAM in 25p/50i!

Phil Bloom December 16th, 2007 04:30 AM

what are people's experiences with the slow shutter mode and interval recording. I find it quite hard to get pin sharp footage on 1080p mode unlike my f350. It seems to soften the image quite a lot. Anybody else have this problem?

Phil Bloom December 16th, 2007 06:53 AM

blog fully back up including rss and comments.

Jonas Nystrom December 16th, 2007 06:57 AM

Philip

Do you need additional monitor to do focus for the Letus XT, or is the EX-1 LCD-monitor good enough? You don't per chance have any picture of the set up with the extreme?

Phil Bloom December 16th, 2007 07:01 AM

Hi Jonas

to get perfect edge to edge i recommend using a good hd monitor to see what the focus should be set to. after that the ex1 lcd is good enough.

I am off on a shoot today with the ex1 and letus again. I will take some photos and post on my blog later.

Vidar Vedaa December 16th, 2007 07:26 AM

download speed.
 
Hi Phil

I have a locked at your nature-clip and they are nice,but I see now
that they are downloading much faster than earlyer.Have you a different
server or a new codec.I use Apple server but it`t slow for download.
Have you any tips.

Best Regards
Vidar Vedaa.


Weblink wildlife : http://web.mac.com/vidarjohannesveda...Info-home.html

Jonas Nystrom December 16th, 2007 02:33 PM

Philip
 
I have a HD Marshall 7' when I'm shooting almost everything, and absolutely when using any 35 adapter. XL H1 is a great camera, but it doesn't come with a great EVF. Anyway, I shoot most handheld, and all the stuff on the camera ends up really heavy set-up (mattebox, ff, rods, adapter, camera, lenses, monitor, battery). So one advantage for EX1, could be to build a much lighter handheld set-up.

If you have a chance to post a pic on the set-up i would be much grateful - gives me an idea how it could work handheld.


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